Best F1 overtaking manoeuvre

"well , care to say why you disagree ?"

Short of going off the road Fisichella made himself an easy target.

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do you mean Fisichella noob defending on the chicane ? that's implying everyone would have passed Fisichella, I think, which is false

Kimis wasnt just about the pass though. It was the whole race. Coming from last, and beating everyone, even the world champion. Setting it up beautifully, pushing to catch Fisi which eventually was the cause of fisi making the error. The fact it was on the last lap was even sweeter.

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DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Kimis wasnt just about the pass though. It was the
> whole race. Coming from last, and beating
> everyone, even the world champion. Setting it up
> beautifully, pushing to catch Fisi which
> eventually was the cause of fisi making the error.
> The fact it was on the last lap was even sweeter.
>
>
>
> Dave Ellis
> iDT - Independent Developers Team
> v12racing - v12racing.net


well said

vesuvius Wrote:
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> tripleM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Raikkonen on Fisi at Japan"
> >
> > THE overrated pass in this thread.
> >
> > I'm not a number
> >
> > 3=3
>
>
> I would say Alonso's overtake on Michael at Japan
> is overrated not Kimi's....

I'd agree, there was miles of tarmac for him to recover onto if it went wrong, turn 1 for kimi's move is notoriously low grip into the braking zone for turn 2 as well, if kimi had missed the zone by even the smallest amount, he'd have been in the wall

yes and when Fernando made his overtake on Michael he had less fuel onboard but when Kimi did it on Fisichella they had almost the same fuel load .

"that's implying everyone would have passed Fisichella, I think, which is false"

No,nothing of the kind.

I just find it rather perpelexing that such a move came up in the best passes thread alongside the real classics which didn't involve one driver cocking up the previous corner.

And the 2004 race saw quite a fair number of passes being made at the same place,so Raikkonen's move was hardly special in that regard.

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well it was more impressive that FA on MS, for the reasons Dave put forward.

the whole race was a fightback by Kimi, and to take the lead on the last lap was fantastic.

as i've said before, FA was already ahead of MS before they turned left into 130R.

MS had backed out as soon as FA went past him, and FA took the normal racing line and speed into it, as if MS wasn't even there.

ok, so Fisi may have put himself on the wrong line into turn 1, but they were very close, any contact and it could have flipped Kimi, or put him into a bad accident at the very least (just think of the lap 1 incident at Imola, but at a much higher speed).

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Yep, brave and super determined that was imo the best drive of the year. I also agree with Muks that FAs pass on MS wasn't as spunktastic as James Allen made it out to be.

i agree with dave for kimi it was the whole race not just the last lap and far to many drivers would have settled for 2nd

"as i've said before, FA was already ahead of MS before they turned left into 130R."

Raikkonen was already ahead before the turn in at T1.

But that doesn't count as he had a fantastic race etc

*shrug*

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2006 11:45PM by tripleM.

tripleM Wrote:
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> "as i've said before, FA was already ahead of MS
> before they turned left into 130R."
>
> Raikkonen was already ahead before the turn in at
> T1.
>
> But that doesn't count as he had a fantastic race
> etc
>
> *shrug*

watch this:



i'd say they were neck-a-neck at about 54 seconds, then as they turn in at 55 seconds, Kimi is just slightly ahead as Fisi backs out.

after watching the FA v MS one again (

), i'd say it's pretty much the same positioning, but due to the huge tarmac runoff at 130R, i'd say there was less risk with this move compared to the Kimi v Fisi move.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

plus fissi moved and they neary touched

Schum was also in a particularly slow car, but the Renault was just as fast as the Mclaren on occassion, which adds something to the kimi-fisi move

alonso was far enough ahead of ms to take the correct line into the corner he had the racing line plus tar mack if it went wrong kimi had gravel was a good move and fissi really made a mess of defending

"i'd say they were neck-a-neck at about 54 seconds, then as they turn in at 55 seconds, Kimi is just slightly ahead as Fisi backs out.

after watching the FA v MS one again ([video.google.com]), i'd say it's pretty much the same positioning, but due to the huge tarmac runoff at 130R, i'd say there was less risk with this move compared to the Kimi v Fisi move."

Yeah,fair enough.

I guess i was unfair in my original evaluation.

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DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Credit Zonta for Mika making a pass?
>
> I'll credit the pit wall for DC hitting it then
>

Stop being such an arrogant stuck up idiot. That is completely different and not what I meant. You knew exactly what I meant, but as usual you have to try to show your 'superiority', which is quite sad

For everyone else who can't seem to grasp this - this relied on zonta to have the awareness, brains and sense to stay put and do what he did - mika relied on zonta. Zonta was the one who caused the move to work - if he hadn't have been there, we saw what would happen on the last lap. I just guess you lot don't want to give credit to lower drivers or something. It was just a normal move for mika, nothing special - it was zonta who added something to it and had the awareness not to cause a big accident.

And forgotten, no I don't like schumacher - why would I like someone that has no regard for anyone but himself and will happily try to kill or crash people if it means he will win?

H E L L O

oooo someone has PMS :P

The move did not rely on Zonta at all! Yes, without Zonta it would have been a normal move, but that doesnt matter. The fact is, Zonta was there and many drivers would have backed out of the situation. Mika didnt, he took the risk and took it 3 wide and pulled it worked perfectly

You could say the same about any passing move. "It wouldnt have been good if it wasnt X". It applies to anything. So just because Zonta was there, is does not detract from the bravery, skill, and confidence Mika displayed in attempting the move, nevermind pulling it off.

Zonta done nothing special. He moved to the right, lifted the throttle to let Schumacher pass. At the time he wouldnt be able to see Mika in the mirros. It was Mika that pulled it off, Zonta was just getting lapped. Nothing more.

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if zonta had not been there ms would have tried to take mika out again like the lap before

harsh words there Marc, maybe "MS would have tried to block Mika" would have been more appropriate

although they were rivals, MS had more respect for Mika than any of his other rivals (JV, Hill).

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael