looking for onlineracing game
Posted by stifflers mum
According to you then a sim is classed with something which has an incorrect gravity model, FFB effects not taken directly from the physics engine like LFS is, and tyres which are solid. Will have to re think myself on where the feedback comes from in real life if thats the case. As I've said LFS has problems but so does rFactor which you don't seem to acknowledge. rFactor has icy spins and FFB which gives no information. A gravity model which has been proven to not work correctly and very exagerated understeer effects like in all ISI based games. Steering lag just like any other ISI engined game. rFactor is nothing special it's just the same as anything on the market, no 'WOW' factor. LFS is being developed totally different and aiming to simulate everything that a real car has. Surely you can see that yourself ??
Don't know where you get that rF has better netcode because the only problem I've had with LFS online is when my router died so can't see anything wrong with it myself.
Both have plenty of cons and pros.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 05:22PM by keiran.
Don't know where you get that rF has better netcode because the only problem I've had with LFS online is when my router died so can't see anything wrong with it myself.
Both have plenty of cons and pros.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 05:22PM by keiran.
I have had the FFB discussion many times. LFS does NOT give realistic feedback through the steering wheel, infact NO game gives realistic feedback through the steering wheel. FFB in a game is not designed to act like a real wheel. It is designed to give the feedback a real driver gets from the whole car.
rFactor does not have solid tyres. We discussed this on MSN. The movement on the tyres is visible and there
rFactor has a gravity model which has flaws yes. We have been over that. LFS has physics engine flaws. In that the cars do not drive like cars. NO car can enter a corner at the angles LFS cars can achive. NO car can be controlled like LFS cars. I have watched the Formula Drift series from Japan, with cars setup purposly to get the biggest possible drift, and control it. Yet they do not get close to the slides which LFS cars ahcive constantly.
LFS is being developed totally different and aiming to simulate everything that a real car has. Surely you can see that yourself ??
It can simulate all it wants. You can put in 1 million equations for the suspension physics and declare it the most advanced physics engine in the history of gaming. It doesnt make it correct.
At the end of the day it doesnt matter how much the developers pump uo the physics codes. The proof is in the driving. And even watching cars driving shows you how wrong LFS is. When you start driving both LFS, and real cars, you realise just how dreadfull wrong it is. No cars handel even close to what LFS cars do. You can throw in as many "real" numbers as you want and as much maths as you want. It doesnt mean it suddenly becomes more realistic. Cars do not drive like LFS cars. Fact.
rFactors gravity problem was not even a problem until a mod which cars became arborn was made. That is how little effects the actuall driving of the cars. LFSs physics problems are blatently obvious every single time you take a corner.
Don't know where you get that rF has better netcode because the only problem I've had with LFS online is when my router died so can't see anything wrong with it myself.
I've already explained that in the thread
Collision dtection being the main gain that rFactor has over EVERY game.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 06:04PM by DaveEllis.
rFactor does not have solid tyres. We discussed this on MSN. The movement on the tyres is visible and there
rFactor has a gravity model which has flaws yes. We have been over that. LFS has physics engine flaws. In that the cars do not drive like cars. NO car can enter a corner at the angles LFS cars can achive. NO car can be controlled like LFS cars. I have watched the Formula Drift series from Japan, with cars setup purposly to get the biggest possible drift, and control it. Yet they do not get close to the slides which LFS cars ahcive constantly.
LFS is being developed totally different and aiming to simulate everything that a real car has. Surely you can see that yourself ??
It can simulate all it wants. You can put in 1 million equations for the suspension physics and declare it the most advanced physics engine in the history of gaming. It doesnt make it correct.
At the end of the day it doesnt matter how much the developers pump uo the physics codes. The proof is in the driving. And even watching cars driving shows you how wrong LFS is. When you start driving both LFS, and real cars, you realise just how dreadfull wrong it is. No cars handel even close to what LFS cars do. You can throw in as many "real" numbers as you want and as much maths as you want. It doesnt mean it suddenly becomes more realistic. Cars do not drive like LFS cars. Fact.
rFactors gravity problem was not even a problem until a mod which cars became arborn was made. That is how little effects the actuall driving of the cars. LFSs physics problems are blatently obvious every single time you take a corner.
Don't know where you get that rF has better netcode because the only problem I've had with LFS online is when my router died so can't see anything wrong with it myself.
I've already explained that in the thread
Collision dtection being the main gain that rFactor has over EVERY game.-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 06:04PM by DaveEllis.
I give up. Yes LFS has bugs but it by far thrashes any game on the market in every area except modability.
The movement on the tyres is visible and there
It isn't visible at all and if it's physical where is the proof. In LFS I can bring up a forces mod in the setup screen and drop the car. I can see the tyre squish a bit and the camber etc change.
Collision dtection being the main gain that rFactor has over EVERY game.
Yet again I'll say that has nothing to do with netcode. No wander rFactors detection system works better because it is as simple as it can get. Bits falling off the car like a toy, gee thats new. LFS with polygon modeling damage is by far more complicated but I bet you'll not agree on that.
The gravity flaw has to affect more than what this mod shows. Gravity does not change state it's a constant force. On one forum a Virtual RC dev has posted saying they are surprised that the ISI devs have got gravity wrong.
FFB in LFS beats any game out there. No other game gives as much feedback and can't if they insist in taking the shortcut route.
At the end of the day theres a reason LFS has beaten rFactor in a public vote but no doubt since rFactor lost the votes they wont mean anything.
[www.bhmotorsports.com]
The Blackhole Motorsports Award for Best Sim in 2005 is awarded to Live for Speed S2. This is probably one of the first times that an Alpha version of a game has actually won in this category but that only speaks to the validity of the game and its content. Live for Speed is really designed to be an online racer and that is where it shines the brightest. LFS contains a huge livery of cars to drive and each one presents with its own unique handling characteristics. The menus and user interface are some of the best in our industry and LFS has paid particular detail to the controller interface so that every user, regardless of what type of input controller used, is connected appropriately. The Live for Speed development team deserves high praise for their attention to detail and the progress that they have made even at this Alpha stage. This game is still evolving as we go into 2006 and I certainly expect the final version to be at the top of the awards list again this year. BHMS is proud to award LFS the Best Sim of 2005 and we would like to personally recognize Scawen Roberts, Eric Bailey & Victor van Vlaardingen for their vision and diligence in creating this sim for all of us to enjoy.
[www.bhmotorsports.com]
The Blackhole Motorsports 2005 Award for Best Multiplayer in a simulation is awarded to Live for Speed S2. Good multiplayer code creates predictable secure access for the client and promotes exceptional control of the server by the host. Online racing is at its best when every client, regardless of bandwidth, can enjoy a stable connection. Couple that with minimal latency, an accurate prediction code to compensate when lag does occur and the world opens up to sim-racing enthusiasts. Being able to compete with other racers around the world, in real time, is one of the truly wonderful features of any simulation. Not too many years ago the ability to race against opponents from around the world in real time was a concept that many thought impossible. The multiplayer applet in many such titles has brought diverse cultures and individuals from around the world together to converse and share in their love of Motorsports. No longer are we obligated to participate in racing events with mindless AI drivers that are locked to the pavement. Not only did we have the opportunity to race with human opponents, on many occasions we were blessed with making lasting friendships gained through respect and competition.
[www.bhmotorsports.com]
The Blackhole Motorsports 2005 Award for the Best Physics in a simulation goes to LFS S2. Many of us have our own idea as to what we consider good physics. Some think that tire modeling is the key and yet others think that crash damage constitutes good physics. One element of a physical property states that--for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Live for Speed works along the same line. If you are driving one of the V8 powered rear-wheel drive cars, you had better show respect for the throttle or the backend is going to try to pass the front. In the case of a front-wheel drive car, if you overload the fronts going into a turn, you can expect to have to wait for the vehicle to turn before you can accelerate again. Along the same lines, the damage incurred by a minor incident creates an expected level of driving irregularity affected by the specific damage. One other element stands out in the physics department for LFS is that almost every default setups that comes with each car are very good. There no need to spend hours trying to make the cars drive-able. The physics in LFS seem to indicate that the perfect driving technique will outrun the perfect tune-up in the garage.
The AutoSimSport Best simulation award
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
The movement on the tyres is visible and there
It isn't visible at all and if it's physical where is the proof. In LFS I can bring up a forces mod in the setup screen and drop the car. I can see the tyre squish a bit and the camber etc change.
Collision dtection being the main gain that rFactor has over EVERY game.
Yet again I'll say that has nothing to do with netcode. No wander rFactors detection system works better because it is as simple as it can get. Bits falling off the car like a toy, gee thats new. LFS with polygon modeling damage is by far more complicated but I bet you'll not agree on that.
The gravity flaw has to affect more than what this mod shows. Gravity does not change state it's a constant force. On one forum a Virtual RC dev has posted saying they are surprised that the ISI devs have got gravity wrong.
FFB in LFS beats any game out there. No other game gives as much feedback and can't if they insist in taking the shortcut route.
At the end of the day theres a reason LFS has beaten rFactor in a public vote but no doubt since rFactor lost the votes they wont mean anything.
[www.bhmotorsports.com]
The Blackhole Motorsports Award for Best Sim in 2005 is awarded to Live for Speed S2. This is probably one of the first times that an Alpha version of a game has actually won in this category but that only speaks to the validity of the game and its content. Live for Speed is really designed to be an online racer and that is where it shines the brightest. LFS contains a huge livery of cars to drive and each one presents with its own unique handling characteristics. The menus and user interface are some of the best in our industry and LFS has paid particular detail to the controller interface so that every user, regardless of what type of input controller used, is connected appropriately. The Live for Speed development team deserves high praise for their attention to detail and the progress that they have made even at this Alpha stage. This game is still evolving as we go into 2006 and I certainly expect the final version to be at the top of the awards list again this year. BHMS is proud to award LFS the Best Sim of 2005 and we would like to personally recognize Scawen Roberts, Eric Bailey & Victor van Vlaardingen for their vision and diligence in creating this sim for all of us to enjoy.
[www.bhmotorsports.com]
The Blackhole Motorsports 2005 Award for Best Multiplayer in a simulation is awarded to Live for Speed S2. Good multiplayer code creates predictable secure access for the client and promotes exceptional control of the server by the host. Online racing is at its best when every client, regardless of bandwidth, can enjoy a stable connection. Couple that with minimal latency, an accurate prediction code to compensate when lag does occur and the world opens up to sim-racing enthusiasts. Being able to compete with other racers around the world, in real time, is one of the truly wonderful features of any simulation. Not too many years ago the ability to race against opponents from around the world in real time was a concept that many thought impossible. The multiplayer applet in many such titles has brought diverse cultures and individuals from around the world together to converse and share in their love of Motorsports. No longer are we obligated to participate in racing events with mindless AI drivers that are locked to the pavement. Not only did we have the opportunity to race with human opponents, on many occasions we were blessed with making lasting friendships gained through respect and competition.
[www.bhmotorsports.com]
The Blackhole Motorsports 2005 Award for the Best Physics in a simulation goes to LFS S2. Many of us have our own idea as to what we consider good physics. Some think that tire modeling is the key and yet others think that crash damage constitutes good physics. One element of a physical property states that--for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Live for Speed works along the same line. If you are driving one of the V8 powered rear-wheel drive cars, you had better show respect for the throttle or the backend is going to try to pass the front. In the case of a front-wheel drive car, if you overload the fronts going into a turn, you can expect to have to wait for the vehicle to turn before you can accelerate again. Along the same lines, the damage incurred by a minor incident creates an expected level of driving irregularity affected by the specific damage. One other element stands out in the physics department for LFS is that almost every default setups that comes with each car are very good. There no need to spend hours trying to make the cars drive-able. The physics in LFS seem to indicate that the perfect driving technique will outrun the perfect tune-up in the garage.
The AutoSimSport Best simulation award
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
It isn't visible at all and if it's physical where is the proof. In LFS I can bring up a forces mod in the setup screen and drop the car. I can see the tyre squish a bit and the camber etc change.
Thats like saying "because i cant see it, it isnt there". NR2003 has the most advanced aero model of any game by miles. But it doesnt have a funky view to display it. You can only feel it and see it when it happens. Doesnt mean its not there. My comments on rFactors realism come from a British GT porsche driver who i am friends with and work with 
I trust what he says since hes a simmer and a real driver, rather than developers of the game, who all claim there game to be the best
Yet again I'll say that has nothing to do with netcode. No wander rFactors detection system works better because it is as simple as it can get. Bits falling off the car like a toy, gee thats new. LFS with polygon modeling damage is by far more complicated but I bet you'll not agree on that.
no, you are mistaking the damage and offline collision detection for an online system. this is a different thing to what i am talking about. Im talking about cars merging inside each other online, and how they then react to touching each other online. NR2003 does it REALLY badly, LFSs is much better but rFactors is awesome
Awards mean nothing tbh. Look back through the awards and you'll see some extremely questionable awards given to some quite poor games.
And it still doesnt change that LFS cars do not drive like real cars. You can tell me about net code or FFB or how rFs gravity is wrong all you want Real cars do not, have not, and will never drive like LFS cars.
and tbh it doesnt look good either :|
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 06:48PM by DaveEllis.
Thats like saying "because i cant see it, it isnt there". NR2003 has the most advanced aero model of any game by miles. But it doesnt have a funky view to display it. You can only feel it and see it when it happens. Doesnt mean its not there
. My comments on rFactors realism come from a British GT porsche driver who i am friends with and work with I trust what he says since hes a simmer and a real driver, rather than developers of the game, who all claim there game to be the best Yet again I'll say that has nothing to do with netcode. No wander rFactors detection system works better because it is as simple as it can get. Bits falling off the car like a toy, gee thats new. LFS with polygon modeling damage is by far more complicated but I bet you'll not agree on that.
no, you are mistaking the damage and offline collision detection for an online system. this is a different thing to what i am talking about. Im talking about cars merging inside each other online, and how they then react to touching each other online. NR2003 does it REALLY badly, LFSs is much better but rFactors is awesome
Awards mean nothing tbh. Look back through the awards and you'll see some extremely questionable awards given to some quite poor games.
And it still doesnt change that LFS cars do not drive like real cars. You can tell me about net code or FFB or how rFs gravity is wrong all you want
Real cars do not, have not, and will never drive like LFS cars.and tbh it doesnt look good either :|
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 06:48PM by DaveEllis.
wow! LFS!
Its definately the best multiplayer racing sim.
The open wheelers ar fantastic. It may have a few flaws but the quality of the racing is amazing. The way you can set up the car and its physics (apart from crashes) are extremely good.
The are lots of leagues, and its very easy to make your own car skins and helmets.
Its a brilliant game, I suggest you skip the demo and just get the real thing...
UP THE IRONS!!!
Its definately the best multiplayer racing sim.
The open wheelers ar fantastic. It may have a few flaws but the quality of the racing is amazing. The way you can set up the car and its physics (apart from crashes) are extremely good.
The are lots of leagues, and its very easy to make your own car skins and helmets.
Its a brilliant game, I suggest you skip the demo and just get the real thing...
UP THE IRONS!!!
Quote
Collision dtection being the main gain that rFactor has over EVERY game.
Yet again I'll say that has nothing to do with netcode. No wander rFactors detection system works better because it is as simple as it can get. Bits falling off the car like a toy, gee thats new. LFS with polygon modeling damage is by far more complicated but I bet you'll not agree on that.
That's totally wrong. Collision detection is everything to do with netcode, and how detailed a damage system is has nothing to do with it. LFS has collision boxes, so having a side panel bent in 17 different directions doesn't change how a collision happens... the damage changes how the car reacts, but that's nothing to do with online, that's just physics engine.
I've seen some crap in this thread, but well done for making the best crap!Quote
Its definately the best multiplayer racing sim.
It's just not. It's a very good multiplayer racing sim, but it's not the best. It has one of the best netcodes in racing, but as Dave and I have explained, it has too many pitfalls for it to be called the best online sim. It's even debatable whether it's a sim at all. In my opinion rFactor isn't the best either. NR2003 still rules the roost (because it is almost as close to the perfect sim as is possible), and probably will until iRacing.com release their product (whether you like them or not).
It's mainly about some things they do when they are near their limit of grip, and just over the limit,
so basically everything that matters with the tyre model in a racing simulation?
so basically everything that matters with the tyre model in a racing simulation?
This video clip I'm going to post reminded me of this thread and Ellis gripes with LFS. Seems rFactor has the same problems, take a look ...
[media.putfile.com]
To me the way them drifts are being initiated looks wrong and the angle of the car. I'm not saying LFS has problems with the tire physics when on the limit as it does. It's the fact you used it as a main reason in the LFS physics being all to pot when the same sort of angles are being acheieved in rFactor.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 03:54PM by keiran.
[media.putfile.com]
To me the way them drifts are being initiated looks wrong and the angle of the car. I'm not saying LFS has problems with the tire physics when on the limit as it does. It's the fact you used it as a main reason in the LFS physics being all to pot when the same sort of angles are being acheieved in rFactor.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 03:54PM by keiran.
Actually he uses the grass very little on that clip. More often that not he is fully on the tarmac. The way he is putting the car into that slide doesn't look right either. Still don't see much signs of the cars movment in that clip either still looks pretty solid. If I tried that in a real car the suspension would be under serious load throwing the thing like that to get it to drift. Edited physics that would be the excuse
I'm not saying they are as bad as LFS but the way you were making sound was as if rFactor was king and nothing was wrong. The great thing is that Scawen is the first to admit there is problems with the tires when they are put close to the limit and how they react when they reach their limit. That is what he is working on at the moment and hopefully he will sort the problem soon.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
I'm not saying they are as bad as LFS but the way you were making sound was as if rFactor was king and nothing was wrong. The great thing is that Scawen is the first to admit there is problems with the tires when they are put close to the limit and how they react when they reach their limit. That is what he is working on at the moment and hopefully he will sort the problem soon.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
Still don't see much signs of the cars movment in that clip either still looks pretty solid. If I tried that in a real car the suspension would be under serious load throwing the thing like that to get it to drift.
Oh nice. So instead of actually using the game itself to judge this, you use a low res, low quality, low FPS video? How about going into the game and WATCHING the suspension and tyre travel. Its even more blatently obvious in the stock cars with there softer suspension. That car is a fully modified car with all the upgrades installed, so its effectivly a FIA GT spec car, meaning the suspension travel and tyre travel should be very little. But it doesnt matter how much you claim the car does not move on the suspension and tyres, it actually does! Its just not as exgagerated as LFS
Edited physics that would be the excuse
...no its the reason. Because i've driven drift phyiscs. and they are nothing like the origionals
The great thing is that Scawen is the first to admit there is problems with the tires when they are put close to the limit and how they react when they reach their limit. That is what he is working on at the moment and hopefully he will sort the problem soon.
Thats not great! that problem has been there since LFS S1 and got WORSE in S2 with the advanced tyre model. How the tyre reacts on the edge is everything about a tyre model in a racing sim and LFS has never had it right and has went in the wrong direction.
I'm not saying they are as bad as LFS but the way you were making sound was as if rFactor was king and nothing was wrong.
Not at all. To even suggest LFS physics are anywhere near as good as rFactors, NR2003, GPL, GTL or even GTRs is just a bit funny to me LFS is capeable of things far far beyond real life drivers can possibly imagine. Its fun, but not realistic.
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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 04:31PM by DaveEllis.
Oh nice. So instead of actually using the game itself to judge this, you use a low res, low quality, low FPS video? How about going into the game and WATCHING the suspension and tyre travel. Its even more blatently obvious in the stock cars with there softer suspension. That car is a fully modified car with all the upgrades installed, so its effectivly a FIA GT spec car, meaning the suspension travel and tyre travel should be very little. But it doesnt matter how much you claim the car does not move on the suspension and tyres, it actually does! Its just not as exgagerated as LFS
Edited physics that would be the excuse
...no its the reason. Because i've driven drift phyiscs. and they are nothing like the origionals
The great thing is that Scawen is the first to admit there is problems with the tires when they are put close to the limit and how they react when they reach their limit. That is what he is working on at the moment and hopefully he will sort the problem soon.
Thats not great! that problem has been there since LFS S1 and got WORSE in S2 with the advanced tyre model. How the tyre reacts on the edge is everything about a tyre model in a racing sim and LFS has never had it right and has went in the wrong direction.
I'm not saying they are as bad as LFS but the way you were making sound was as if rFactor was king and nothing was wrong.
Not at all. To even suggest LFS physics are anywhere near as good as rFactors, NR2003, GPL, GTL or even GTRs is just a bit funny to me
LFS is capeable of things far far beyond real life drivers can possibly imagine. Its fun, but not realistic.-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 04:31PM by DaveEllis.
Depends on what you class as good physics. LFS has a heck of a lot of potential in there and the project is based on making the most advanced physics out there. The amount that game simulates is by far ahead of any other game I've come across. There is no limit to the physiscs engine like it would appear in rFactor where a car going over a ramp seems to float very slowly to the ground. Sure it has presented problems because of the complexity invloved but by S3 I'm sure it will be an amazing simulator. Can't understand how a .txt file storing some parameters can be classed as good physics 
I'm sure you'd agree that a project like LFS trying to set new standards can only mean good things for the racing community?? This may push other developers like ISI to develop something different and more sophisticated. After LFS S3 for all we know the LFS devs might be selling there engine to simbin and co.
This argument will go on and on forever in a day. It's obvious you like rFactor and I like LFS.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
I'm sure you'd agree that a project like LFS trying to set new standards can only mean good things for the racing community?? This may push other developers like ISI to develop something different and more sophisticated. After LFS S3 for all we know the LFS devs might be selling there engine to simbin and co.This argument will go on and on forever in a day. It's obvious you like rFactor and I like LFS.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
Depends on what you class as good physics.
Realism
The amount that game simulates is by far ahead of any other game I've come across.
Well, in some ways yes, in other ways no. It simulates alot of suspension and tyre stuff other games do not. But it doesnt do it realisticly. Whilst the potential is there, it is currently un used. But when it comes to aerodynamics, all games lack behind NR2003. Nothing comes even remotelty close to than for Aerodynamics.
Can't understand how a .txt file storing some parameters can be classed as good physics
Why not? It doesnt matter how they are stored. You can hardcode them into the exe, you can encrypt them into a file, or you can store them in a txt. At the end of the day a physics parameter is a physics paramter and it doesnt matter how it is stored, only how it is used. If its about having physics hardcoded into the exe, GP4 is the mother of all sims because thats all hardcoded into the exe and extremyl uneditable. But of course thats not the case because GP4s physics engine is junk at best.
At the end of the day this is LFSs problem - It has an extremely complex physics engine (good) but the current paramters in the tyre model are exceptionally poor. Whether thats a weakness in the engine, or the tyre model, i dont know
But other games arent without there faults. rFactor has almost no front end FFB, even with massive ammounts of tweaking and a gravity problem. NR2003 cant simulate anythin other than heavy stock cars well (i still maintain GTP is great, but not terribly realistic in how it drives). GP4, well...the less said about GP4 the better. With other games the problems dont normally get in the way of the driving. rFactor, what whatever reason, has a realistic gravity model when the car is grounded, but not in the air. NR2003, as long as you driving a stock car its fine. but LFS the one problem it has effects every corner you make.
the developers HAVE to fix it. It doesnt matter how much they simulate in the engine, it cant be realistic with its current tyre model. I wouldnt be that bothered but it seems like the developers are sleeping tbh. Its 6 months since the last physics update. Normally when a game is WIP im not bothered because i know i'll be getting more, but I've already paid £24 for a sim whcih isnt realistic and isnt being update as often as it really should be :-\ Its been wrong since the start, the devs know this, updates dont really seem to be coming (how many years since this was released?), and they want me to spend more money? hmm
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 05:15PM by DaveEllis.
Realism
The amount that game simulates is by far ahead of any other game I've come across.
Well, in some ways yes, in other ways no. It simulates alot of suspension and tyre stuff other games do not. But it doesnt do it realisticly. Whilst the potential is there, it is currently un used. But when it comes to aerodynamics, all games lack behind NR2003. Nothing comes even remotelty close to than for Aerodynamics.
Can't understand how a .txt file storing some parameters can be classed as good physics
Why not? It doesnt matter how they are stored. You can hardcode them into the exe, you can encrypt them into a file, or you can store them in a txt. At the end of the day a physics parameter is a physics paramter and it doesnt matter how it is stored, only how it is used. If its about having physics hardcoded into the exe, GP4 is the mother of all sims because thats all hardcoded into the exe and extremyl uneditable. But of course thats not the case because GP4s physics engine is junk at best.
At the end of the day this is LFSs problem - It has an extremely complex physics engine (good) but the current paramters in the tyre model are exceptionally poor. Whether thats a weakness in the engine, or the tyre model, i dont know
But other games arent without there faults. rFactor has almost no front end FFB, even with massive ammounts of tweaking and a gravity problem. NR2003 cant simulate anythin other than heavy stock cars well (i still maintain GTP is great, but not terribly realistic in how it drives). GP4, well...the less said about GP4 the better
. With other games the problems dont normally get in the way of the driving. rFactor, what whatever reason, has a realistic gravity model when the car is grounded, but not in the air. NR2003, as long as you driving a stock car its fine. but LFS the one problem it has effects every corner you make.the developers HAVE to fix it. It doesnt matter how much they simulate in the engine, it cant be realistic with its current tyre model. I wouldnt be that bothered but it seems like the developers are sleeping tbh. Its 6 months since the last physics update. Normally when a game is WIP im not bothered because i know i'll be getting more, but I've already paid £24 for a sim whcih isnt realistic and isnt being update as often as it really should be :-\ Its been wrong since the start, the devs know this, updates dont really seem to be coming (how many years since this was released?), and they want me to spend more money? hmm
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 05:15PM by DaveEllis.
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