looking for onlineracing game

Wrong actually, with LFS you only pay for the content not the game. An S1 liscense can play the latest physics they are just restricted to the track and car choice.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

But with restricted car and track choice, its just a demo...

At the end of the day they are getting my money, and the product they have given me is not good enough for the money, and they will want more for S3. They havent gotten the physics even close to correct in the 2-3 years this game has been going, whos to say they will suddenly crack it lucky for S3? Not that S3 will come any time before 2010 tbh.

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You make them sound like they are after your money with that comment. If they were really after your money would they take this route in development ? No. Plain answer and Scawen has posted saying to people if he really wanted the quick money he would have headed the ISI route. How is it a demo ?? LFS has a demo which is fully functional. You buy a S1 license you get the S1 content and you could play S3 with a S1 license. Someone worked out roughly how much the devs made before bank charges and everything like that. The wage was not high at all considering the time spent on this project. LFS is trying to set new standards by simulating different things and taking technology of a game further. I can't belive for the life of me that you don't realise this yourself. Developing something differnt from how the uniform way of doing it is going to take a heck of a lot of time to get right just like anything. Who knows by S3, simbin may be buying the LFS engine. Who knows what the future holds for LFS but I see good things.

Did Ferrari manage to get a car capable of winning in 2005, nope but whos not to say they don't dominate this year again ?? As you probaly see with the V12 site it's taken me a while to implement things and get them working even on such a small project. Mostly down to my limited knowledge of PHP but its still the same in that regard. Computer game physics are not simple by any means and it's trial and error of a lot of algorithms to get it right. I'm sure you'll agree if Scawen can get the tire physics the game could kick ass in the physics department. When S3 comes around and modding begins this surely can only mean good things for the modding community which I believe your apart of.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

Plain answer and Scawen has posted saying to people if he really wanted the quick money he would have headed the ISI route.

By charging a lower price than the full cost of LFS, then giving free bug fixes, new tracks, new features, new cars, community support in adding features modders have asked for, without asking for any extra money for these updates, and then supporting developers such as D3 and Simbin with technical help and addition 3rd party programs. Yup, i see what you mean, money grabbing

As you probaly see with the V12 site it's taken me a while to implement things and get them working even on such a small project.

You are not doing it as a job. Your doing it as a free community based project, which we are all greatfull for. However, if i was paying for your service i would demand more. We do not demand anything from your v12 efforts becase we realise you are doing this for free. But if i was paying you, proper money, i would demand things because i am spending my money on this. This is where LFS fails IMO.

can only mean good things for the modding community which I believe your apart of.

Nope, im not part of any modding community anymore and probably will not be in the future.

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How many physics updates have you got from ISI ?? When you compare S1 to S2 there are huge differences. More than GTR to GT2 which Simbin are going to charge people full price for. If they really were after the money why would Scawen quit his job as head coder on the Black and white project ?? It's the best £24 I've spent on a game. Someone went as far to say they bought it for the 3D models to use in scenes, the game was just a bonus to him.

I guess we differ opinions on the two games. I enjoy racing in LFS and the feedback I get back from the game. I just can't get used to the ISI laggy steering and exagerated understeer effects. No two people are the same but for you to say that the LFS physics are crap is just bull. A real racer who raced the real life counter part of the FOX said that the physics of the FOX were the best he had tried. The FOX probaly is the best done car in game but it still suffers from the low speed understeer.

Keiran

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

How many physics updates have you got from ISI ??

How many physics updates has it needed Given the graivty probvlem was only discovered recently.

I just can't get used to the ISI laggy steering

Happens because your PC isnt good enough. Simple as that. The physics and graphics engine are linked. A low FPS will cause laggy steering, but that isnt the games fault. Get a PC capeable of running the game like it is meant to be run and that goes away

exagerated understeer effects

Stop using default setups. No hame can be judged on default setups. All of the decent setups i have have no exagerated understeer effect because they are not designed for n00bs.

No two people are the same but for you to say that the LFS physics are crap is just bull.

So? I WORK WITH a Porsche British GT driver who has backed me up on what i say. I work with Grand Am drivers, i work with Champ Car drivers, and even some IRL and NASCAR drivers. I have constant contact with many of them. I also know Dale Eanrhardt Jr plays rFactor. I have spoken to NASCAR engineers, Porsche engineers, crawford and Riley engineers, in person. I dont want to sound big headed, but when it comes to driver and team contacts, anyone working with D3 has alot more than any simmer could dream of And it isnt because none of these guys have heard of LFS. Opposite infact, most of them have it, and are big sim fans Some of the drivers were rather happy when i mentioned we were using the same graphics and physics engines as rFactor.

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 06:36PM by DaveEllis.

"How many physics updates have you got from ISI ?? "

Some for FIS already. Anyway we are getting updates for free.

And for the love of God , stop saying Steering Lag , it´s bull shite , you understand ? I have no lag in anything so drop it , it´s a not a valid comment. For sure you are just lazy and you didn't setup your wheel for ISI games.

Exagerated Understeer ? just setup the car to your taste ... or get GP2 mod , have fun doing spins and hitting walls

I didn't try LFS but stop bashing on those points , I pretty much think it's ...well crap excuses


Edit : Finally, after reading Dave's post I understood what is the "steering lag"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 06:34PM by Forgotten.

Quote

And it isnt because none of these guys have heard of LFS. Opposite infact, most of them have it, and are big sim fans

So you are admiting that LFS is a sim now ?? LFS and rFactor are both out of the leauge of anything on the market place and will probaly always remain like that. Maybe NetKar Pro will jump all over the two of them who knows. The steering lag in ISI based games has been pointed out by many people with PC specs that are far greater than mine. Obviously the steering lag is more exagerated on my computer with scoring less than 30FPS but even LFS doesn't have steering lag when I go below 30FPS. Some people say that the ISI engine only updates the steering every frame where as other sims do it more than that.

@Forgoten
Physics patches are free with LFS as well so I don't know where you got that from ... you obviously don't know or understand the aims set for LFS. The steering lag is being pointed out by many people. It is down to how the ISI engine works and has always existed in the ISI engine. It's not a crap excuse, it's reality. I will find the video clips with comparisons between 3 games including rFactor, RBR and LFS. Then you will see it.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 06:43PM by keiran.

So you are admiting that LFS is a sim now ??

Excellent way of twsiting words No, that comment was used to say that these guys are n00bs. They are intouch with the community, play the mods and are registered on RSC I can name 2 big drivers, in big series who dislike LFS for the drifitng

The steering lag in ISI based games has been pointed out by many people with PC specs that are far greater than mine. Obviously the steering lag is more exagerated on my computer with scoring less than 30FPS but even LFS doesn't have steering lag when I go below 30FPS. Some people say that the ISI engine only updates the steering every frame where as other sims do it more than that.

Then those people should learn to configure there PC. The fact of the matter is, on a PC where the game works as it should, there is no steering lag in the slightest. And dont worry, i know exactly what im talking about i hear because i myself brought it up with D3/ISI

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<threadjack>

you spelt league wrong in your sig pic, keiran :P

</threadjack>

"Physics patches are free with LFS as well so I don't know where you got that from "
So it looks like you are denying what you said ...
"How many physics updates have you got from ISI ?? When you compare S1 to S2 there are huge differences. "
AFAIK , from S1 to S2 you have to pay* 12£

Steering Lag , after reading Dave's post makes even more sense , you shouldn't play rfactor or any game in low fps , it just ruins a lot of the experience



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2006 06:56PM by Forgotten.

No what I said is you are paying for the conent. A demo player can play the latest physics but they can only play with 3 cars and 4 track combinations. One in which includes rally cross. A S1 player can play with the latest stuff but only with the S1 content. A S2 players can play with everything there is to offer at the moment. For the way this game is being developed it's the best solution out there and there are no cracked versions able to play online. You can also ban people permantely via there unqiue and permanent username. Thus making the online exprience the best you can get, no wreckers here.

So I shouldn't play computer games because my computer can struggle at times ?? I go under 30FPS at the starts of races in LFS but I still enjoy it and can manage to keep up. Maybe my system does affect my feelings on rF but in the same DX mode in rF as LFS runs at I get terrible FPS in rF. About 15FPS - 25FPS is about the best I get.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

So I shouldn't play computer games because my computer can struggle at times ?? I go under 30FPS at the starts of races in LFS but I still enjoy it and can manage to keep up. Maybe my system does affect my feelings on rF but in the same DX mode in rF as LFS runs at I get terrible FPS in rF. About 15FPS - 25FPS is about the best I get.

rFactors graphics are significantly better than anything LFS can produce.

you shouldnt complain because YOUR PC isnt good enough. My PC cant run HL2 on full details, so i dont do it.

Thus making the online exprience the best you can get, no wreckers here.

thats simply not true

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Explain how it's not true ??


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

Because i've been on plenty of servers with wreckers, demo, s1 and s2. Yes there is not as many wreckers as there could be but stating there is no wreckers is wrong

Btw, NR2003 and rFactor you can have your ID banned (Nr2003 through serial code, duno how through rF) from online racing. So its not unique to LFS, and in no game does it mean no wreckers, it means LESS than there could be

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hey boys, its enough for now. both games have pro and cons. every player has his/her own experiences and love the one or other style.

so, kiss each other on the ass and shake hands.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2006 07:50PM by stifflers mum.

Quote Kieran "In LFS I am racing - In all the other Sims I am playing a racing game.....pretending to be a FIA GT driver for example...." Quote

Are just a complete moron or something Kieran? I am racing in FIA GT3 this year for your information and have raced in British GT last year and lots of other stuff before. (www.seanedwardsracing.com) Yeah right, I am pretending, like I really need too do that

Or maybe I will just think since your apart of D3 you will defend the terrible ISI engine in the hope to make your game/s sounds fantastic. Theres no need for your sort of language at all. Another point is that someone who raced in the real life equalivant of the FOX in LFS said it has the best physics of any car in any game he has played.

The choice is simple in my mind, the exagerated FFB effects of the ISI engine which give you didly squat of feel or the one which you can feel exactly what the cars doing because it comes from the physics engine and not random effects. The game with over saturated colours and generally looks far to bright and colourful or the one which looks natural. Last of all the one which has tyres which deform and don't just stay solid, yea thats right solid tyres are real ...

Keiran

edit/// Considering you just joined today around the time of your first post here I'm gathering your colleague in D3 ran off to tell you to come here quickly and try make the ISI engine sound great ... I'd rather not play a pimped up version of F1C thank you very much


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2006 07:16PM by keiran.

OK Kieran. I despise the ISI engine, yet I still think LFS is horrifically un-sim like.

You'll also find Sean isn't getting anything out of D3 money wise, he's merely providing racing knowledge.

Considering you just joined today around the time of your first post here I'm gathering your colleague in D3 ran off to tell you to come here quickly and try make the ISI engine sound great ... I'd rather not play a pimped up version of F1C thank you very much

Not true. I let him know there was someone out there who thinks hes a pretend driver rather than someone who goes out and puts his ass in a 150mph and actually does it for real He asked where, and i pointed him to your sig :P

In the terms of physics engines, Dario Franchitti and the 2 Porsche DP drivers agreed with him. ISI Sims, and currently GTL apparently as realistic as you'll get.

Im sorry if you feel offended, i dont want to get personal of course as your cool :P, but i find LFS to be junk at times. Its just not a sim in any stretch of the imagination. It achives things which no car can even come close to doing. It doesnt matter if it has tyre deofmation and 10 different spots of tyre wear and stuff, because thats all useless when the cars dont actually drive like real cars. The single seaters are better than the tin tops granted, but cars just do not drive like that. ISI ones are far from perfect (no sim is perfect, they all have physics flaws), but currently, despite the lack of front end feedback, the choice of the pros at seems to be the ISI engines...

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