looking for onlineracing game

If you want to bring the discussion onto realism, LFS is horrible. Gav will agree (as he watched, in person as i did this) its perfectly possible to slide LFS cars to daft levels. I have entered corners at 60deg angles, with the wheels locked and the engine stalled, and it eas easy controlable.

Yup - he was sitting in my house, with an unfamiliar wheel, unfamiliar pedals, the lot. First time he was on, he was entering the corners all crossed up. And he doesn't mean 60 degrees facing the corner... 60 degrees facing left while braking for a right hander. Totally in control. I had a shot immediately afterwards, and it's simple to do. That's not even close to realism. Bloody good fun mind. :D

The other thing that bugs me about LFS is the graphics. You can get poor FPS while the game looks like crap compared to most sims. The models in GPL look better than LFS's. The LFS models have more to them internally perhaps, but in general it's just very lacklustre with a high-end machine.

Likewise, I've struggled to get into rF. I simply can't stand ISI engines. The default graphics are even worse than LFS. FPS drops like a stone as you add cars. As things stand, however, I'm closer to rF than LFS, and if one of them were to take off big time, I'd say rF is in the better position to be it. It's a fair assumption to say that rF is where the major leagues will be in the coming years, as GPL ages more and more, and NR2003 and its mods get harder to come by.

I've had as many online LFS races as I've had rF now. Both are miles ahead of any other sim. The collision detection is something else from the previous trend setter (NR2003 IMO, GPL in Dave's by the look of it). There's certainly less warp/ping related crashes in rF than LFS, but it takes a freaky occurance for LFS to have a warp crash. It certainly doesn't happen much. I also can't put my finger on why, but LFS doesn't seem to work online on street-circuits. It's great fun racing the UFs around one, but the way they collide with walls online just doesn't seem right, and as such following drivers can't instinctively avoid creaming into accidents. It's hard to pin-point, but those crashes just don't feel natural, while in rF they do.

For fun, GPL, NR2003 and GTP are all so much more rewarding online. Things seem organised. They've been around long enough for everything to be honed, people to have settled into leagues, and everyone seems to know everyone else really well. Even if you're in a pick-up race, you seem to know how people will react. And in our GTP endurance league, despite there being upwards of 100 drivers per race, sharing 35 cars, you know how a certain team or driver will react when you come up to them. That makes a hell of a difference.

So in short: technically, both LFS and rF are the better online, but neither feel as rewarding as GPL or NR2003.

I should have started this with "once upon a time"... :\

My opinion Gav , is give it time , GPL and NR2003 are out for some time, so I think it´s not a surprise it is like that.
Or was it like that since the start ? ( not sarcastic , I was just asking seriously )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2006 11:09AM by Forgotten.

Forgotten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My opinion Gav , is give it time , GPL and NR2003
> are out for some time, so I think it´s not a
> surprise it is like that.
> Or was it like that since the start ? ( not
> sarcastic , I was just asking seriously )

GPL didn't even have online capabilities when it was released. Alison Hine and her brother Nate started off looking into a system to effectively hijack the LAN connection ability, and adapt it to connect to other racers on the web. VROC was then born using their knowledge, and WinVROC followed. It was already fully-fledged online when I started racing GPL in 2001.

NR2003 was had online racing from its birth. I guess it was already set-up from the previous incarnations, following GPL, so a base was already in place, community wise.

They're both much easier to get into online in my opinion. rF seems fiddly at the moment, though quite powerful under the skin, while LFS seems a bit backwards in the way it works online - the way commands are sent and things, not the actual structure. They've both got a great platform to build on, but as things stand, I can't stand either or them, or the way you join, personally. Perhaps I just want the approach of the 2 Papyrus games.

going on what happened with GPL online is it possible (in theory at least) to do the same for GP4?
What about using hamachi with online gaming?
I'm not interested in online play really, but GP4 has some form of it built in, but apparently very poor.

____
Tony

wow , I didnt know about that in GPL , great stuff
thanks for the explanations

GP4 is quite impossible im afraid, its just how the game has been poorly coded, or rather, how code from GP2 and even F1GP have been recycled and used again from the days when internet multiplayer would not have even been considered as a form of playing the games with.

Its all down to GP4's performance. The locked framerate based upon processor occupancy means that it needs the speed from the machine to stop the whole process going tits up.

Add in a factor, such as a broadband connection, which is alot slower than all your main hardware and your general system bus and it simply cant cope. Its having to wait too long to get the information from the internet, calculate it and make it work with your system occupancy.

Hell, GP3 flies on modern day system, as it should, but as soon as you try that on the internet like you would do with GP4 and it dies. PO goes through the roof even if you have a great spec machine.

It's just the way its been coded im afraid. Because GPL and the like have been made with variable fps and all the rest that all games now work from performance from a gameplay point of view, it doesnt suffer as there is no PO to focus on as such.

---

b-tone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> going on what happened with GPL online is it
> possible (in theory at least) to do the same for
> GP4?
> What about using hamachi with online gaming?
> I'm not interested in online play really, but GP4
> has some form of it built in, but apparently very
> poor.

Not possible. GPL has an excellent LAN code which just is being used in a funky way to get online. GP4s (and GP3s) LAN code SERIOUSLY sucks over a LAN, it'll be worse over the net. And i belive the old GPxPatchs did allow GP3 online



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b-tone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> going on what happened with GPL online is it
> possible (in theory at least) to do the same for
> GP4?
> What about using hamachi with online gaming?
> I'm not interested in online play really, but GP4
> has some form of it built in, but apparently very
> poor.

Technically, I don't see why not. I believe GP3 allowed it via GPxPatch, though I never tried it myself, and it was supposed to be pretty poor - nothing against SDI - the guy worked wonders with GPx - it's GPx's nature which makes it frustrating to play over LAN, let alone the net.

//edit: Dave beat me while I was away on break duty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2006 04:03PM by gav.

Gav the street circuits is nothing to do with online play. The problem is the same cause for cars having funny accidents with impact. It's just the way the damage model is calculated causing huge amounts of energy which isn't being absorbed by the cars like in real life. Scawen is working on physics so fingers crossed he gets down to this problem.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

keiran Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gav the street circuits is nothing to do with
> online play. The problem is the same cause for
> cars having funny accidents with impact. It's just
> the way the damage model is calculated causing
> huge amounts of energy which isn't being absorbed
> by the cars like in real life. Scawen is working
> on physics so fingers crossed he gets down to this
> problem.

Ah right, sorry. I never really played against the AI that much - certainly not on S2 Alpha. I think the only time I really raced the AI was when Dave was here actually. We had a good giggle at them crashing headlong into the tyres at Blackwood (nothing against the AI - they can be hard and fair, and are certainly better than GPL's AI.

It still bugs me though, as like I said, what natural reactions you have when trying to avoid such an accident don't work, it's quite frustrating. That depends entirely on your racing experience though, so probably isn't a problem for erm... Stiffler's mum...

Yea it can be annoying not just for other racers but yourself :p. I've got a ESL leauge race at S0 long in two weeks time so that could be interesting. Very rewarding track though when it all goes right :D

Great thing about rubbish AI is that the cracked version players must get driven insane they can't play online and they can't upload hotlaps.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

another thing about LFS i couldnt find any of the tracks believable other than blackwood :shrug:


[www.evoracingteam.co.uk]

hey, what do you mean by believeable :s If it has tarmac and a start/finish line how can it not be believeable :s

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

i just cant imagine them being real tracks, not that rf tracks are completely believable (lack of run offs)


[www.evoracingteam.co.uk]

thankys alot for your opinions ladys and gentlemen.

iam not really smarter now...
lfs looks stunning, the videos especially. thanks for that.´
rfactor seems to be more my likeness. just have to give it a try, but sadly the demo doesnt work for me.
i fear to own booth games.

last question: which game is closer to GTR?

i dont like the sis games that much, iam a hardcore gp4 driver. but gtr online is quit good imo.

regards



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 01:58AM by stifflers mum.

If you think GTR is good online you'll love rFactor online.

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I've never heard anything good about GTR online Just now anyway LFS is better for pick up races because of the larger community and the majority of servers aren't passworded. rFactor you really need to be involved in a leauge to race people so it isn't so much boot up and drive. Maybe if rFactors community becomes larger this will change but that's if.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

I race people online all the time and im not in a league...

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[racecast.rfactor.net]

[www.lfsworld.net]

Well looking at those LFS must offer more choice than rF can with less players. Can't seem to get a 'Number of players online at the moment' thing on racecast but looking through it manually there aint a lot online and a lot of locked servers.

I'm not saying this wont improve as players increase but this is a problem with modding that people tend to jump ship when something new comes out. Look at the trend already. F3 mod to PCC mod to GP2 mod. You'll never get the same ease of pick up races as LFS in its current state of not being open to modders.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 04:29PM by keiran.

But then you have to put up with driving a car which only wants to go sideways

Whether there is a million servers or just 5 servers doesnt matter. You cant use more than 1 at a time. And anyway, when you get onto the server you have to put up with daft handeling fictional cars (except one which is real but handels like no other car on the face of the earth and is totally unuseable), and fictional tracks. Whislt rF has countless real tracks, alot of which the quality is excellent (v12 thread outlines which ones, and links to them), and real series such as Porsche Germany, UK, and F3s

At the end of the day, i see it like this. You can have a game which doesnt handel like any real car and can be driven at silly angles, but is hillarious fun, with a good netcode

Or you can play a game with more realistic handeling real cars, real tracks with an even better net code

LFS is not a sim IMO, no matter how much funky tyre stuff they put in. Not until they fix the handeling

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