looking for onlineracing game

i would like to race in an open wheeler, but dont know which game i could try. rfactor and liveforspeed seems to be the reference. any tipps and solutions? i prefer serious racing, not crashing and kidding around.

thanks

Open-wheeler: rF, LFS and GPL

Also consider NR2003. Perhaps not for the NASCAR (it's a 50/50 whether you love or hate driving around ovals), but the GTP mod isn't unlike single-seaters, and it's almost a totally new sim.

Certainly GPL and NR2003/GTP have plenty of serious leagues (you've probably seen the VTR endurance posts we make) to satisfy your craving.

Can't speak for rF (maybe too early to find the decent dedicated leagues?) or LFS though. Never done anything more serious than pick-up races or one-off races on either.

You might want to warn him how hard it is to get a copy of Nascar racing 2003




LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

At the moment Live for Speed is the best for online racing because it isn't open to modders yet so the community isn't so spread out. There are plenty of leauges to get involved with in LFS and plenty of serious ones with real prizes. Not sure about rFactor but by the sounds of things on the rF forum there isn't a lot of people online and a lot of passworded servers.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

I'd say LFS is one of the worst tbh because the pickup races are so poor and the netcode collision isnt as good as rFactors

To answer the question: In terms of realism and netcode, i'd put rFactor on top at the moment. the built in rF3 mod will give you all the close online open wheel racing you need

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i could never get into lfs, whilst there arent many pickup races in rf, there are lots of leagues running


[www.evoracingteam.co.uk]

Actually Ellis I've had pletny of pick up races in LFS recently and have saved the replays because they were great :s sure in the demo theres a lot of twats but there is no way in controling them. The risk of being banned from a server permantly (via username) or losing your license in extreme cases put the kids off who cause problems.

Collision has nothing to do with Net code Thats a physics problem in LFS because of the energy forces and I also think it has something to do with the polygon damage modeling and how it functions. If you don't believe me try it offline. Scawen is working on physics now so fingers crossed he figures out what exactly is causing it.

Also depends on what you class as realism. I've found a few things in rF very frustrating like the lack of information through the FF and the steering lag.

Quote

BEST MULTIPLAYER [www.bhmotorsports.com]

no real comments here, its so obvious that even non-sim world would love to have such a polished code. its polished to the bone, heavily feedbacked under dev and public testing thru wip project development approach. of course it started as revolutionary idea, so a very strong base to work upon was already released on first multiplayer code generation.

BEST PHYSICS [www.bhmotorsports.com]

theres more math in one lfs wheel tyre, than in a 20 car isi sim race. this aint a ride-the-slo-motion-interpolated-excel-table-of-values as in all reashes of the dinossaurical isi physics engine. the only real sim that could fight it off with lfs is n2003, mostly due to the feel it translates via FF and due to the more polished aero (something lfs is still developing). Still lfs is newgen, and in future, with a more complete code for the physical model, most of what gets output now as erroneous, will output more and more closer to reality due to a more complete model. the rare physical oddities are related to the incompleteness of developement due to wip dev nature of the project.
a net is always incomplete until its done. its full strenght can only be seen then, 100%. those lucky enuff to see and understand the strong foundations that lfs has layed upon for 5 years can see that the future looks bright indeed for full S2 and S3 stages.

All I'd say is try the demos and make your decision from there. Everyone likes different things.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 08:55PM by keiran.

what is that about steering lag ? I play ISI games since F1C and I fail to see what you mean :s. every bit I steer , it does in game !

edit : I never played lfs , but ... I heard many people saying rfactor has the best multiplayer of all racing games so.. I will believe on those many people rather than " a look alike" biased info



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 09:22PM by Forgotten.

rfactor definately has the best online racing i've ever tried, especially in collisions.

Forgotten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what is that about steering lag ? I play ISI games
> since F1C and I fail to see what you mean :s.
> every bit I steer , it does in game !
>
> edit : I never played lfs , but ... I heard many
> people saying rfactor has the best multiplayer of
> all racing games so.. I will believe on those many
> people rather than " a look alike" biased info

The steering lag is clear for me and many others I've talked to. rFactor updated the steering every frame where as other games update it much more than that giving rFactor steering lag/ Tbh there ain't anything in the netcode. Both games have strong netcode for me it's the ease of playing that makes LFS have a better multiplayer. I can be on the track in 5-10 seconds from my desktop. It takes me a lot longer to get rF going. It can be called biased info but it beat rFactor to the awards at both AutoSimSport and BHM. Not that I care much about these awards but they were won for a reason .

My personal feeling between the both games that the goals of the LFS devs are a lot higher than rFactors. I'll still play rFactor more for the mods and to also put my stuff in once I get my head around the system

Keiran




vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 10:59PM by keiran.

if your looking for a valid opinion on rF and LFs dont listen to keiran hes biased as hell

I have many valid opnions that make LFS a better choice in my mind

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

LFSs net code is rubbish tbh. The cars lag on the start, they can lag in the corners. The game doesnt predict the movement well in tight hairpins so you have to second guess whats happening as the car moves about oddly. The up side is it supports alot of cars without performance loss. The collsions are like toned down versions of NR2003s, which often results in cars flying off from a small touch. Yes, you can connect quickly, but remember you may have to look at the menus which could result in loss of sight, either directly from the menu itself, or by you sticking a fork in your eye so you dont have to look at the menus.

rFactor is a pain in the ass to get online (but its better than before, and still improving). Even on pings of over 400 the cars move so smoothly you can be forgiven for thinking its AI driving for awhile. Collison detection/reaction is second to none. You never warp in a car unless the pings something daft like over 600, and a small touch usually doesnt cause an accident either. Menus arent the prettiest (altho far from LFS poorness) but its easy enough to find your way about and get connected

NR2003s net code supports stupidly large ammonts of cars (42) with no loss compared to a 5 car server. When the servers good, its great, but when the servers bad the warp is too visible. The collision detection/reaction is crap, even worse than GPL. You can hit a car at high speed and take no damage at all, or you can just tap another car and cause a massive accident with cars flying all over the place. It gets the job done, but really isnt as good as the competition anymore. Menus are by far the best, of probably any sim ever. Easy to navigate, good looking, fast and simple. Does the job perfectly in that area.

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Ellis I really can't see where your 'lag' is coming from in LFS :s. I think your biased on rFactor with that comment. I personally think the netcode in both games is par. The last time I had lag in LFS was when my router died . As I said earlier the collison problems is nothing to do with netcode it's to do with gravity and other things which are modeled in LFS. Recently with this new dune buggy mod peoplpe are saying the cars are floating across the air in rF showing it doesn't model gravity properly. Where as in LFS you can go over ramps and rally cross jumps but the car always lands on the ground and never floats.

I'll still play rFactor for the mods but will never take it as seriously as LFS. It just doesn't model enough stuff to realism compared to LFS and the gravity problem in rF is a bit of a joke. Gravity should be the first thing modeled in a game. Even reving the engine in LFS while stationery you can see the car rock slightly and the forces taking place on the car.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2006 12:08AM by keiran.

As I said earlier the collison problems is nothing to do with netcode it's to do with gravity and other things which are modeled in LFS.

The gravity causes a collision problem. The end of the day, the collisions suck. no game has gotten collsions correct until rF

the dune buggy mod is all well and fine, but we arent talking about that. We are talking about net code and when you actually go and use them (which is the best test) LFSs just doesnt match rFactors for actually racing. rFactors is smoother, better predicted and better in an accident zone.

It just doesn't model enough stuff to realism compared to LFS and the gravity problem in rF is a bit of a joke.

If you want to bring the discussion onto realism, LFS is horrible. Gav will agree (as he watched, in person as i did this) its perfectly possible to slide LFS cars to daft levels. I have entered corners at 60deg angles, with the wheels locked and the engine stalled, and it eas easy controlable.

LFS is fun, but its not realistic. Not by a long shot. Its far far too easy to slide a car and control it. Its definatly not a simulation.

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I own both rF and LFS.

LFS all the way. I haven't been able to get into rFactor at all, but each to their own.

I would say definetly LFS for open wheelers, as last time I checked not many rFactor servers were running open wheelers, don't know what the situation is these days though.

My opinion is also biased however, because my PC can't really hand rFactor so I don't play it that often.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2006 12:38AM by FRESCO.

Nothing wrong with LFS netcode by a long shot. I've ran many leauge races with 20 car grids and not had any problems. Pings of 30-45 is the average I get when looking through the server lists. Collision is nothing to do with gravity really, it's down to the high and sudden energy LFS sometimes places on the car because of the polygon damage modeling. This sometimes causes the game to place huge forces causing the cars to react weirdly. They always come back to the ground though I can still run wheel to wheel with people in LFS and not suffer any problems.

Realism to me is what the LFS devs are doing. Working the hard way, simulating things as they should be and now how most of the other games are doing it. Yes there is problems which cause unrealistic effects but Scawen will be the first person to admit that. The complexity of this whole project is what causes problems.

If realism is steering lag and stiff tyres then I must be seeing things on the TV. The FFB in rFactor doesn't feel right at all, there is no information on what the thing is doing. Bits of car falling off as it was a toy ...

I really can't see why you are bashing LFS netcode as it's perfectly fine and even beat rFactor to two awards in that section alone. For pickup races LFS has a far great community so it's a no brainer in my mind.

A couple movies to show that racing in LFS isn't as bad as you seem to make it out to be

[www.lfsnews.net] < a nice one in just showing general racing in LFS. Also shows a lot of cars running close to each other without lag.

[www.lfsnews.net] < a nice little clip showing one of the main resons I love LFS. The way that car moves around beats anything I've seen

I could go on forever adding movies Got GBs of them on my HDD.

Keiran



vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2006 01:18AM by keiran.

Must admit from the days i played LFS briefly I never noticed any lag and collisions were always great online, even with alot of players. rF i think does it slightly better, but bearing in mind rFs code is newer than LFS's.

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"The steering lag is clear for me and many others I've talked to. "

bah , I´ve done at least 20 thousandth laps in f1c ( f1 cars ) and maybe around 1500 laps in rfactor and dont really feel any " steering lag" :S , aren't you by any chance talking about speed sensivity ? because I dont feel any lag on my own car :S when I turn , it also turns exactly on the same moment... I think you just didnt setup the game well tbh

I just watched the second movie . Is that Honda a MR engine car ?
if not it looks like it , it´s sliding everywhere