Vista Ultimate OEM

Ianwoollam Wrote:
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> Um Gav the 8800GTS has been out for a while now

Yeah, but the cheaper one with 320mb of RAM hasn't

Erm... Will, ditch that board - the early nV boards for the C2Ds are really, really poor. Get something with an Intel chipset - preferably the i965 one. ASUS do the P5B, which isn't as good as the Deluxe (doesn't overclock nearly as much), but is pretty solid. If you don't intend to overclock then you can save £30 by getting the ASRock (ASUS's budget sub-company) CONROE945G-DVI - it comes with onboard graphics too, which is a bonus, even if you intend to slot your own graphics card in (it can help for diagnosing problems if they ever arise).

I'd still strongly recommend staying away from the 79x0 series though - particularly the GTs. 'Sudden death failure' has plagued them from day 1. Until that cheap 8800GTS comes out (it'll be seriously impressive, trust me) then you're still better off getting the equivalent ATi card.

//edit: just seen you've gone with the 7900GS anyway... oops.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2007 10:48AM by gav.

Well it'll be a good few weeks before I buy anything yet so I think you are right about waiting for the 8800 . ANy sort of estimate on a time, weeks, months ?
I'm am never ever ever going to get an asrock motherboard ever again. My current one has been nothing but trouble (k7s8x), I deliberately avoided asrock for a reason .

Ill have a look around for the intel based board, although what difference will it actually make, It shouldn't matter if I use a nv graphics card with an intel (not nforce) chipset right ?


edit: Cheapest i965 board I can see on scan. By cheapest, I'm not trying to contradict what I said about the budget brands, but its not a budget series is it. Also, what does the i965 offer that the cheaper 775 doesn't, in terms of features and support for cpu and memory speeds etc?

edit2: I've been reading through the "features" of that i965 board, It sounds very good, I know its all hyped up, but there looks to be some very useful features (flashing bios form usb stick etc.) What exactly is PEG link, I understood it to be the connector to connect the 2 graphics cards together in an sli set-up, but reading through that description there Is no mention of multiple gpus .?

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2007 12:34PM by Willb.

any PCIE GFX card will work on any mobo that has PCIE on it regardless of the chipset

I know that , I just wondered if there would be any noticeable performance difference by having an intel chipset rather than an nvidia based board for an nvidia graphics card .

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Willb Wrote:
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> Well it'll be a good few weeks before I buy
> anything yet so I think you are right about
> waiting for the 8800 . ANy sort of estimate on a
> time, weeks, months ?

No idea - I've seen no dates banded around. It's not new technology (all they're doing is replacing the 10 64mb RAM chips with 10 32mb ones) so it's down entirely on when nV decide to do it. It could be 2 weeks, it could be 2 months. It's still just strong rumour at the moment.

Willb Wrote:
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> I'm am never ever ever going to get an asrock
> motherboard ever again. My current one has been
> nothing but trouble (k7s8x), I deliberately
> avoided asrock for a reason .

That will be the 'S' part of the board causing the problems. The 'S' denotes SiS (the chipset).... evil. Pure evil. *shudders*

I've built a few PCs around ASRock boards now, and they really are excellent boards - as I said, it's just the budget end of ASUS - they're just ASUS boards that aren't intended for enthusiasts overclocking. Brilliant value for money.

Willb Wrote:
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> Ill have a look around for the intel based board,
> although what difference will it actually make, It
> shouldn't matter if I use a nv graphics card with
> an intel (not nforce) chipset right ?

As Neil said, none at all. The only advantage an nV-based board has is if you want to go SLi (using identical 2 graphics cards to speed up gaming) which isn't ever good value. Can be fast, but it's certainly not good value (as you're can never get twice the performance).

Willb Wrote:
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> edit: Cheapest i965 board I can see on scan. By
> cheapest, I'm not trying to contradict what I said
> about the budget brands, but its not a budget
> series is it. Also, what does the i965 offer
> that the cheaper 775 doesn't, in terms of features
> and support for cpu and memory speeds etc?

The basic P5B (iG965 - just i965 with the Intel graphics built in - a nice bonus (you don't have to use it)) is going cheaper, as is the P5Bi965 that's currently out of stock. That new board that you mentioned is looking quite good though - it'll give you plenty of overclocking headroom should you choose to boost the performance up a bit (as a total guess, I'd imagine you'd get your E6300 to go from around 1.8GHz to 2.8GHz or even over 3GHz (most do, but it does take a decent board to do it).

Gigabyte have a couple of really cheap i965 boards on Scan (which would be alright I suppose) as do MSI (wouldn't touch with a bargepole from my own experience).

Willb Wrote:
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> What exactly is PEG link, I understood it to
> be the connector to connect the 2 graphics cards
> together in an sli set-up, but reading through
> that description there Is no mention of multiple
> gpus .?

It's supposedly a feature of ASUS boards which overclocks the graphics card(s). I've no idea how it works or even if it has any effect. In my board (P5B Deluxe) it just seems like a complete gimmick for another logo on the box

If the E4300 is available before you buy your CPU, get that instead. It's the same speed as the E6300, yet it has a higher multiplier and a lower Front Side Bus speed. In simple terms, it will let you overclock the bejesus out of the thing on motherboards that can't reach high FSB speeds (ie, the cheaper ones). 3.0GHz (or 100Mhz faster than Intel's current fastest chip) should be easy on any i965 board then - not bad for a £100.

Ooh, that's lookin' mighty tasty, that E4300! Means I can get me an "almost" complete system for about £250 then!

---

Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

I saw the E4300 on scan gav, but I presumed that it wasn't very good, as all the "awesome" ones are 6xxx. So which is the overall better processor performance wise compared with value for money. If I were to get the E6300 and overclock it, I take it it would be faster than an overclocked E4300?

You are very right, sis = ..

As the 6300 is 1.8 ghz out of the box, how will it perform in the current games (Bf2142 for example, just looking for an indication here, I know it depends heavily on the gpu as well.) I don't really want to have to over clock the processor in the first few months just to get some good speed out of it, I'm sure it'll be excellent out of the box, and the overclockability can only increase its live span for me. One thing that as very appealing to be asus wise was the overlclocking features. A friend has an asus bases s939 system and he says the overclocking options are brilliant and easy to use.

Thanks for all the help , really not Up to scratch on Intels range (nor motherboards for that matter)

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Willb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I saw the E4300 on scan gav, but I presumed that
> it wasn't very good, as all the "awesome" ones are
> 6xxx. So which is the overall better processor
> performance wise compared with value for money. If
> I were to get the E6300 and overclock it, I take
> it it would be faster than an overclocked E4300?

In theory the processors themselves could get to the same speed (steppings aside of course). You get a better chance of reaching a higher speed with the E4300 though (it doesn't require as good a motherboard to reach that speed). It's certainly the better buy of the 2 at the moment.

Willb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As the 6300 is 1.8 ghz out of the box, how will it
> perform in the current games (Bf2142 for example,
> just looking for an indication here, I know it
> depends heavily on the gpu as well.) I don't
> really want to have to over clock the processor in
> the first few months just to get some good speed
> out of it, I'm sure it'll be excellent out of the
> box, and the overclockability can only increase
> its live span for me. One thing that as very
> appealing to be asus wise was the overlclocking
> features. A friend has an asus bases s939 system
> and he says the overclocking options are brilliant
> and easy to use.

Yeah, out of the box it'll still beat most AMD processors - it'll beat the FX-62 in most cases. It will be fine for BF2142 I'd imagine - never played it - as you said, it's more about the graphics card in most games.

gav Wrote:
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> Ianwoollam Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Until that cheap 8800GTS comes out (it'll be seriously
> impressive, trust me) then you're still better off
> getting the equivalent ATi card.

Ok, so except for the half ram, are they doing anything else to the card? If not how come it'll be seriously impressive compared to the current 8800GTS if it has less ram? :/ tbh these cards seem quite cheap atm at £200, although I have to admit I have noticed that the X1950's are very cheap! Problem is whenever I've bought ATi, I've had big problems, hence why I gave up with them... But maybe they've changed now AMD are calling the shots...


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam

Apparently it'll only have half the RAM, yes. Same RAM chips, just half the size (so the same bandwidth). As I said though, it's still just rumour (probably Inquirer rumour at that).

Less RAM only means that large textures can't be used as efficiently - in real-life terms that'll just mean that at higher resolutions it won't work particularly well. It's not for us with our 20"+ monitors, but it will still be a very attractive buy for the serious budget gamer - the one who gets the E6300 instead of the E6600.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently it'll only have half the RAM, yes. Same
> RAM chips, just half the size (so the same
> bandwidth). As I said though, it's still just
> rumour (probably Inquirer rumour at that).
>
> Less RAM only means that large textures can't be
> used as efficiently - in real-life terms that'll
> just mean that at higher resolutions it won't work
> particularly well. It's not for us with our 20"+
> monitors, but it will still be a very attractive
> buy for the serious budget gamer - the one who
> gets the E6300 instead of the E6600.

Ah Gotcha, the old Value for money business Well personally I'm holding out for the R600's, that says alot seen as how ATi have wound me up in the past


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam

I wish I could justify this

[www.scan.co.uk]

lol!

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What's wrong with that?

---

Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

Its 247 quid is what's wrong with it! eek!

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

No complaints there... that's what you'll pay for a card like that.

I know its what they do cost, but I'd never even consider spendiing my hard earned on something like that.

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

I could never justify more than £100 on a gfx card, its the component that goes out of date the quickest.

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To be fair, when I brought my GeForce 4600Ti back in the day for about £230, It was awesome and lasted a good 2 years before it went out of date, it was about 3 or 4 years before I needed a new card. On the other hand my 6600gt, was way out of date after a year, although it had been out a few months before I got it. You Pay for what you get .

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I guess. I bought a 9700 Pro for 70 quid second hand about 4 years ago, and its still going strong! Never let me down, played HL2 ( the last pc game I really played) ok, and now its in my sister's uni pc.

Still, if I had been a hardcore gamer, I'm ure it wouldn't have been adequate for much longer!

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

They (8800GTS and 8800GTX) are one of a kind. They're the only DX10 cards on the market at the moment, and will be when Vista launches (the only OS that will use DX10 until the next MS OS). You do pay a premium for having the best card - you always have and always will. They're not any more expensive than when any top launch card came around. In many senses it's better value than in the past, as computer components don't usually go with inflation.

It's particularly excellent value when you look at just how much it pounds ATi's fastest card into the weeds (the X1950XT) and yet this one only costs a few quid more.

Buying the latest graphics card is never good value, but in my opinion they are the most impressive component - look at how graphics have changed over the years - if you went back to GP2 from 10 years ago you'd be shocked at how bad it looked, yet you remembered it to be awesome. I reinstalled it about 2 years ago (to get the excellent menu music), and I still have nightmares now.