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I don't want to see the math getting any harder to calculate than what it is now. I no longer do the perfs anyway but the end of season calcs must be mind boggling to say the least. Having to add averages would only make the formula even more tricky to deal with. The system we have now works up to a point, and I'm beginning to lean towards the idea of resetting the teams at the end of each season and lowering the perf gap from base to top driver to 40 or 50. If as someone said, GP4 is more team power based, then a team reset will instantly cure the domination problem, and leaving the drivers perfs intact, apart from the usual end of season lowering, could see teams scrambling to sign drivers with better perfs. Put it this way, if team bosses knew that they will all start S6 on a so-called level playing field, then the only strategic advantage available has to be the driver market. It takes 5 or 6 events before any trend becomes apparent I think. Team bosses would have to gamble.

Thanks to everyone for voting, I haven't had a chance to look at the results so far, still open for a week anyway. If you want other suggestions added, just let me know, any additional ideas can be publicised and voted on.

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[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to. [www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Central

BAR#10 Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MDBSnake Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I still like the capping of drivers idea as
> well
> > on top of the changes Marko now summed up in
> his
> > last post - although I'm not in favor of the
> last
> > one, adding average points - with the possible
> cap
> > and the equalizing at the start of the seasons
> > drivers will be pretty close together
>
> if reset at the start different boost and my
> suggestions arent necessary.
> then it would be all the same incl boost.

equalizing is this way I meant what we have been doing so far. 'Making the starters perf'. I didn't found a proper word for it so quickly
Capped drivers will still be able to use the boost over the cap, since thats not a permanent change then IMO

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If you are racing, keep on racing and get some points!

GPG Super League S11 | Driver #41 | Team-manager | Snake Motorsports Racing Group | Next Race: Emmeloord - Flevoland GP | Constructors: 10th | Best Race Finish: 1st
GPG Super League Season 9 Testers Champion*

my point was when different sets amount of boost (driver having different boost) are applied over the cap.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Resetting won't solve anything, especially not in the long term. Eventually you'll again end up having a few teams dominating. Resetting every season would make the whole driver market stagnate because there would be no need to switch teams because they're all the same anyway. There need to be differences, otherwise you can't have a realistic series. All kinds of solutions are thrown into the thread now, which is a good thing, but when you've thought up your great plan you need to consider if the great plan actually solves the problem and doesn't create another one.

We have two problems:
Domintion by a few teams
A stagnated driver market that keeps testers out

What I don't want:
Resets, because that defies the whole point of having perf points. Those were made to make you better every time you have a good result. Resetting it, for example, every season, would bring the driver market to a halt because teambosses wouldn't need to have other drivers because every driver is the same. If you'd reset the teams, drivers wouldn't need to go anywhere because every team is the same. Ergo, the problem is made worse.

To get testers in, we need to get racers out, it's as simple as that. I myself am a big proponent of restricting the driving possibilities for teambosses. IMO they at least should be banned from driving in the race series. This would free up a lot of places and get the driver market going again. Also, think about the ethics. Why should a teamboss be a driver too and have a double role, while testers only do a FP and have half a role? That's hardly fair IMO. I've heard that the teambosses don't have much to do if they can't be a driver. Then I'd say, let them do something extra -> problem solved.

The domination by a few teams that we currently see could be taken away a bit by closing up the perfs at the start of the year, just like I proposed to do with drivers.

If we get any more interest, do you think it might be a good idea to start a junior series?


Lucky Seven Motorsport ***Winner-Zandvoort***
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ptclaus98 Wrote:
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> If we get any more interest, do you think it might
> be a good idea to start a junior series?

The thought of a junior series seemed logical when the WGP and the w300 took place, but there were several problems with it - one of which being that the junior series was more popular than the senior one.

If the GPG SuperLeague is marketed better than the WGP was, it could work.

from what i have seen in my short time here it seems that the only solution would be to start a second series but it has been already pointed out that this would take an enormous amount of work on top of what the RD's do. However perhaps a team reset could work along the lines of going hand in hand with a new carshape. I say this because it would then be like a regulation change in real f1, not too different from the change between 2008 an 2009. The new shape would mean a team perf reset with the drivers still keeping their experience. Just a thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2010 04:40PM by CaptinFranko.

After having read that, I have to say you are right Nick.
The main proposals then look like:
Removing team bosses from race seats = free up seats.
Reduce gap base to top team perfs = reduce chance of runaway team.
Reduce gap base to to driver perfs = reduce chance of runaway driver.

I've just had a look at the voting results, everything has been voted out by a clear majority, except for team owners driving.
The voting on team owners driving is divided between team owners completely out and team owners in with the preference going to team owners out and driving test only by a 2% margin. Not a big margin but I think test drivers have probably voted out their team bosses to get a chance at a race seat!

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[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to. [www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Central

Whoa!
i saw 30 people voted already.
what's the other results?

DO NOT FORGET!
with boost system this is no longer just lottery, but also competition to an extent.
with even more boosts you can effect results, perfs are close as it is.

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

CaptinFranko Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> from what i have seen in my short time here it
> seems that the only solution would be to start a
> second series but it has been already pointed out
> that this would take an enormous amount of work on
> top of what the RD's do. However perhaps a team
> reset could work along the lines of going hand in
> hand with a new carshape. I say this because it
> would then be like a regulation change in real f1,
> not too different from the change between 2008 an
> 2009. The new shape would mean a team perf reset
> with the drivers still keeping their experience.
> Just a thought.

well new race directors could always volunteer

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2010 04:43PM by BAR#10.

CaptinFranko Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> from what i have seen in my short time here it
> seems that the only solution would be to start a
> second series but it has been already pointed out
> that this would take an enormous amount of work on
> top of what the RD's do. However perhaps a team
> reset could work along the lines of going hand in
> hand with a new carshape. I say this because it
> would then be like a regulation change in real f1,
> not too different from the change between 2008 an
> 2009. The new shape would mean a team perf reset
> with the drivers still keeping their experience.
> Just a thought.

That has got to be the most sense I've heard in this regard.

If anything, I have a suggestion to prevent the same teams winning every race.

Only the driver perfs go up instead of Engine BHP - you could say it was almost like homoglated engines at the same quality (BHP-wise) throughout the season.

also let's take a lesson from season 1 and 2.

base perf - one team runaway. s1
40 points difference - one team runaway s2
60 points difference s4 - velox runaway, but mpr and tss were able to catch up cause of boost strategy too.

so giving more boost to smaller teams could be better than base it out.
and dividing points by six to gain bhp, less bhp addedd during season.

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

I like how it's going atm. Great to see everyone chipping in!
This is my list what I think could be effective in total

- Team owners can only get to be testing. Not racing while owning a team
- Teams will have a solid BHP throughout the season
- More team boost, since BHP will be 'frozen', strategy will only be off a larger role
- Reduce gap to a lower amount for drivers at the start of the season
- 6 drivers boosts

---

If you are racing, keep on racing and get some points!

GPG Super League S11 | Driver #41 | Team-manager | Snake Motorsports Racing Group | Next Race: Emmeloord - Flevoland GP | Constructors: 10th | Best Race Finish: 1st
GPG Super League Season 9 Testers Champion*

Its a pity that there isn't another championship out there running as well as this one that could be used as a feeder series. Like the RGFR for instance, although that appears now dead. It would save having to start up another one and would come its own set of race directors ready to role. I realise it might not be that simple but maybe something to chew over

BAR#10 Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so giving more boost to smaller teams could be
> better than base it out.
> and dividing points by six to gain bhp, less bhp
> addedd during season.


That raises the question: when is a team small? The bottom three? If so, why not the bottom four? IMO we already have a lot of boost available. 20 BHP for 16 races is quite a lot if you ask me. And other question: did TSS catch up due to their boost strategy or boost amount? I think it's rather strategy than amount. Also if you'd give even more boost, you'd take away the strategy that comes with it. And closing the gaps between the teams (e.g. by dividing points by 6 instead of 4) makes the boosts more important in a relative way.

CaptinFranko Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its a pity that there isn't another championship
> out there running as well as this one that could
> be used as a feeder series. Like the RGFR for
> instance, although that appears now dead. It would
> save having to start up another one and would come
> its own set of race directors ready to role. I
> realise it might not be that simple but maybe
> something to chew over


There you go. The very reason this series won't see a feeder series. As has been explained a million times already, the feeder series concept failed last time and we won't have it failing again.

MDBSnake Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like how it's going atm. Great to see everyone
> chipping in!
> This is my list what I think could be effective in
> total
>
> - Team owners can only get to be testing. Not
> racing while owning a team
> - Teams will have a solid BHP throughout the
> season
> - More team boost, since BHP will be 'frozen',
> strategy will only be off a larger role
> - Reduce gap to a lower amount for drivers at the
> start of the season
> - 6 drivers boosts

Will that mean that every team has the same BHP? Because I can't see that being a popular measure :P And if not, freezing the BHP won't allow teams to catch up. At the current system, teams will reach a cap so other teams can catch up. If you'd have a frozen BHP, the existing differences will persist.

Quote
nickv
That raises the question: when is a team small? The bottom three? If so, why not the bottom four?

teams are based on their starter perf.
some will start with 804 some with 800, under the formula and points they score this season.
therefore the difference between top and bottom bhp is taken into boost.
f.e. say
tss 804 gets 40 bhp
ied 802 bhp starter perf gest 42 bhp
new team 800 bhp gets 44 bhp, so everyone has 844 combined.

Quote
nickv
IMO we already have a lot of boost available. 20 BHP for 16 races is quite a lot if you ask me.

With more you can control the season, and less up to the lottery.

Quote
nickv
And other question: did TSS catch up due to their boost strategy or boost amount? I think it's rather strategy than amount.

there is a limit with what you can do currently. with more boost you'd have to adapt and even teams that would fall behind during season would still perform with higher bhp for longer time.

Quote
nickv
Also if you'd give even more boost, you'd take away the strategy that comes with it. And closing the gaps between the teams (e.g. by dividing points by 6 instead of 4) makes the boosts more important in a relative way.

no, you just change the strategy that comes with.it last longer during season and is more diverse.

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Nickv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will that mean that every team has the same BHP?
> Because I can't see that being a popular measure
> :P


Please do explain that, Nick - cos I'm not entirely sure how it would be so unpopular. Yeah, the competitive people within the series will moan that they're getting less of an advantage for victory, but it would certainly ensure that we have different winners on most weekends - as the perfs would be so tightly packed together.

Diax F1 Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nickv Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Will that mean that every team has the same
> BHP?
> > Because I can't see that being a popular
> measure
> > :P
>
>
> Please do explain that, Nick - cos I'm not
> entirely sure how it would be so unpopular. Yeah,
> the competitive people within the series will moan
> that they're getting less of an advantage for
> victory, but it would certainly ensure that we
> have different winners on most weekends - as the
> perfs would be so tightly packed together.


The reason you mention is one reason that it probably won't be popular. Another reason is that there won't be any top teams any more. What's a series without top teams? As I said earlier, it would stagnate the driver market. If you want randomness, you could as well drop the whole perf system altogether.