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n00binio Schreef:
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> just a thought but: is it necessary to
> differentiate between wet and dry races? has
> anyone ever tested if the difference between 1 and
> 2 stopper is different under different conditions?
>
> ( )


I bet there was, otherwise we hadn't been using it :P I think it had something to do with the race being longer or something, or the average speed being lower.

n00binio Wrote:
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> just a thought but: is it necessary to
> differentiate between wet and dry races? has
> anyone ever tested if the difference between 1 and
> 2 stopper is different under different conditions?
>
> ( )


in short - yes. interlagos test in season 2, mother of all tests and penalties hahaha

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Nickv Wrote:
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> I know I thought his idea was good, and in theory
> it still is. It just doesn't work properly in
> practise and that's why we should leave that
> definition now because it's not correct. The
> definition needs changing and it's better to do it
> now than to follow the definition now. Because if
> we use the definition now, we have to use it for
> the rest of the year. Now we have the chance to
> change it, because it's obviously not 100%
> correct, so we should change it now.
>
> Your example of the points system is that when
> you've already allocated points, you can't change
> the system. Now we haven't used a definition yet
> (formally, because we're discussing it at this
> moment). The reason you can't change a points
> system during the season isn't because it's during
> the season, but because you've already used the
> system. Now we haven't used the system yet so
> we're still able to change it, because it's not
> functioning as it should.



The spray system would have been used in round 3 Spa and from then on, but one stopper just didn't occur.
the spray system wasnt changed prior to the Monaco one stopper occurance here. Race results are now known, we would be changing it now a posteriori,

i knew full well this few laps thing could happen when Chris suggested it, but i liked it regardless, cause it's clear and simple. it would be extremely hard to decide how to determine penalty regardless in mixed conditions and this simplified it.

that said, i'm not entirely happy with it, cause I didnt think of bringing it up it before the season.
That's why rules should be known and standardized in advance, otherwise it can lead to chaos.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2010 09:51PM by BAR#10.

OK, I've been thinking and suggest the following. It builds on the current proposal. At first, we judge by eye if a race should be classed as wet or dry. If there is doubt for whatever reason, we check if there was spray coming from the cars. Of course, I'm reasoning here from the perspective nobody within the GPGSLRS would deliberately cause doubt to suit his own favour. But I'm confident that these situations won't occur.

VSM last. Hopefully I can restore SOME pride to the ranks by bitch-slapping Zak to the testing trophy!

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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

Not quite too sure how we are 4th. We haven't been that impressive...

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Team Owner of ItalianEnglish Dynamics in GPG Super League
GP4 Season 5: 7) Jethro Walters. 8) Zsigmond Somogyi. TD) Stuart Ingers and Joel Henrique
GP3 Season 5: 14) Nathan Turner. 15) Tobias Kederer.
6 Time Race Winners

MDBSnake Wrote:
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> Or in addition to this then again, dry is 10
> seconds - wet is 15 seconds. 90% was dry, 10% was
> wet. 9x10seconds + 1x15seconds = 105 seconds. 105
> seconds divided by 10 = 10,5 seconds penalty time


I really like this, I think this idea is the best.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2010 04:01AM by Macca25.

Just posting to apologise for my enforced inactivity (no internet for weeks, and then the past 2 working on my dissertation and having no time for anything), now feeling like i have let down Alpha. I will now move my focus onto progressing in the testers rating and hope to be successful again.

Good too see the series still going so strong =]

Ben





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2010 04:51AM by Shinnbob.

Nickv Wrote:
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> OK, I've been thinking and suggest the following.
> It builds on the current proposal. At first, we
> judge by eye if a race should be classed as wet or
> dry. If there is doubt for whatever reason, we
> check if there was spray coming from the cars.

too arbitrary for my liking.
but that was what we were doing before, in past seasons.
by default i like written rules in to decide game's stuff and not someone's will or discretion at that time.
but like i said i am not totally happy with spray in a sense, that the spray rule is on somewhat shaky legal ground as it wasnt done ahead of the season.
one could argue had one stopper happened at round 2, we'd be doing arbitrary stuff and then spray rule would never come up.
perhaps the original official results should stand. i dunno.
and i dont mind more people telling their oppinion.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2010 05:03AM by BAR#10.

Applying some rules is abitrary, but that's the job of the race steward. We've been pretty good so far at avoiding those situations, but IMO we can't avoid it now. If we set a fixed rule, it doesn't work (as we see now) and a properly working rule needs a little bit of own insight in some situations (note that last bit, races which are 50% wet and 50% mixed AND there's a one stopper will occur very rarely).

nice to push the TNR up the ranks ^^

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Nickv Wrote:
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> Applying some rules is abitrary, but that's the
> job of the race steward. We've been pretty good so
> far at avoiding those situations, but IMO we can't
> avoid it now. If we set a fixed rule, it doesn't
> work (as we see now) and a properly working rule
> needs a little bit of own insight in some
> situations (note that last bit, races which are
> 50% wet and 50% mixed AND there's a one stopper
> will occur very rarely).

problem is in mixed conditions, it's hard to figure out stuff. it dont even have to be 50'-50. it can be 20% chance of rain too.
one stopper misses a scheduled stop.
which stop should be looked at as missed. first or second scheduled one?
what if one stopper pits when its wet, two stoppers have one wet and one dry stop, or choose any combo.
also what if there's a dry line appearing, is it wet or dry, what's the lap times that should define it?
the weather only matters at the time of the stops, as it takes more time to come from point a to point b on main straight and on the position of pit exit in wet than in the dry.
it did in interlagos.
that's what i asked before Spa.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

It doesn't have to be THAT precise, we're not rocket surgeons! :P

What we need is a rule to see how we can class a race as wet or dry and that will determine the penalty.

Here's my take on it.
If the race is classified in the calender as wet, and there is rain at any time during the race, it's a wet race. If it doesn't rain at any time , it's dry. Too easy.
This particular penalty for this race is only a tricky one because it will push the driver out of the points, that's what I see with this particular instance.
Marko does a weather draw for the tracks before the season starts, and we classify races as being either wet or dry by the outcome of the draw. Wether it actually is wet or not is only due to the vagiaries of GP4, and we have no influence on that.
I don't think we should be concerning ourselves with how much rain there is to determine if it's to be classified as wet or dry when we have already stated in the calendar that the race is deemed to be wet. Therefore it is my opinion that the penalty should be applied according to the calendar. Wet race = wet penalty, unless no rain fell at all, and only then it can be deemed as being a dry race.
It's not often that a car fails to stop, and it's unfortunate for the driver who has to wear the penalty when it occurs, however, I'm all for keeping the rules simple. If we make things too complicated, it is usually at our expense, and we are certainly complicated enough already.

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Ferrari2007 Wrote:
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> Awesome to win here even if very lucky, Marko was
> the best of the rest today and deserved to pick up
> the win after Phil retired
>
> Monil drove well too, overall a pretty good
> weekend, more points than both Velox & TSS

Sums my feelings right up! :D

Nickv Wrote:
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> A pile up in the pitlane? Once again GP4 farted in
> our face. But it was nothing compared to what GP4
> did to Philip! :P


Tut tut Nick.

hey everyone, sorry I haven't been around, wow for 15th to 2nd for me. That did make me smile, hope every race can be like that.

Kx
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@ Race

Joel Henrique Interview after 3 challenges...

"Some problems with my seat in the car, and the posicion of the pedals, just forced me too be more careful,
My job is to take my car in the highest performance and, shure, preserve him, after all, it'll be used for the all weekend,
not just for the tests.
The team promess to me some goods things for me to work out...so, let's wait a little, and be pacient....and of course,
still is a pleasure to be in the championship, those problems, are just details..."

What a horrible race... Unlucky guys.

What's wrong with the spray rule? Surely this should be followed as it was agreed on prior to this race. Just becuase a pensalty seems a little too harsh at the time does not mean rules should be changed otherwise there's no point in having them in the first place.

@Marko - You can edit the cameras with GP4 Builder quite easily (I used to do it for all the W300 races) or I'm sure there are updated cameras? There's always updates with the F1 cams kicking about...