*****GP4 Track editing - The new thread*****

f1ch tracks consists only in graphics. the physical part is on the aiw file which is way different to the dat so conversion is near to impossible. much easier can be a gp3 to gp4 dat converter.
but as said i think most wanted things now are
deleting in .gp4
better dat-->3ds export, maybe creating a file for every part, each file splitted in parts of 60 sectors (like the .bin)

just a question for lo2k, have you a .gp4 track file empty? maybe only with the required objects into. i hate having to move all of those unuseful objects.

@B-tone: Yep, I saw your post with many questions and saved it to reply it later but I can't find it anymore yet...I will have to make a search in the old thread...

Anyway, I wonder if one of you two have ever seen a 20Mb (and more) txt file...

To answer your question, no I never checked a F1c track and will probably never look in it because I do believe F1c uses a cheap trick to simulate speed : they stretched track size so you can feel you're going faster (as lines are longer, cars are in fact running faster than they should but HUD is displaying false speed scaled to reality).
So I doubt you could convert an F1c track to GP4 without reworking it in deep.

@Shuttl1e:
I just made some progress and object deletion is now a matter of minutes (hours at worst).
Exporting tracks to 10 (not 60, there are 60 vertices) sectors segment can easily be done, but mapping assignement will become a hell for everyone as I can't save texture names yet in the 3ds file.

No, I havn't any empty gp4 track. I tried some months ago and it failed because some objects were needed. As long as I won't know which objects are necessary, I don't think it will be possible to create a fully empty track.
Anyway, once object deletion feature will be up, I will also add the "delete all objects" feature (or if I can "delete all selected objects" and you will be able to try by yourself what's needed and what's not.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2005 06:56PM by Lo2k.

ok about f1c. but theres so many 3d enviornements so hopefully we can use something.
So I doubt you could convert an F1c track to GP4 without reworking it in deep.

i'd be happy with some basic 3d->dat one day

i guess 20mb is a bit much. how about imp/exp one data at a time? a txt file with a few hundred left_track_width values for instance?

i've just noticed my 'add multiple sections' at montreal come up with 19 cmds, where i'm sure other tracks only had 4 or 5. is that a track specific thing or did i mess up? and will it affect how the track loads/runs?

about empty track - a while ago i put an f1c 3d part into gp4 and it worked so maybe its possible to make a 3d part from scratch?

____
Tony

Lo2k Wrote:
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> Anyway, I wonder if one of you two have ever seen
> a 20Mb (and more) txt file...

how about a excel file with only one selectable data? for instance sectors -> bank height, or sectors -> z position. (maybe that way there could be more.) that will keep filesize well under 20mb.

shutt1e Wrote:
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> just a question for lo2k, have you a .gp4 track
> file empty? maybe only with the required objects
> into. i hate having to move all of those unuseful
> objects.

nice trick for that i used to get bahrain (melbourne) 100% empty. open up the gp4 file with a hex editor do a replace -> trackname2001_page_??? to trackname2001_page_000 Now delete al textures and just make a 100% transparant one. open up the track, turn on alpha blending et voila

Exporting tracks to 10 (not 60, there are 60 vertices) sectors segment can easily be done, but mapping assignement will become a hell for everyone as I can't save texture names yet in the 3ds file.

we already have discuss of this. let me explain with an example.

original tracks has the same objects division as in the .bin, any object (track and track verges) has his own unk4 value, many share the same values but some use different values. i don't know what unk4 stands for but i suspect it has something to do with shadows level or amount of light.
the track sometime disappear, this is a well known issue, the bin seem innocent due using the original bin it continue to disappear.
may be the disappearing related to the unk4 value and the .bin portion undelying?
using arbitrary .gp4 track and verge division cause the lack of matching with the .bin division unless you are very careful detaching faces in zmod.
from this my idea, having the .dat exported in 3ds format, using one file for each track element, so a track.3ds, a DLverge.3ds etc. every file splitted using the same division as in the .bin
The track maker so has to load the 3ds file and assign the mapping.
This is very easy in zmodeler using a portion of track components at time
just to remember:
1) in the material editor a copy of the default material must be created. at this copy must be assigned the tga and a name for the material must be choosen.
2) in object mode all object must be selected (SEL button pressed/select menu/select all/right click on a window)
3) face mode (having the SEL button pressed) and right click on a window
4) CTRL+A and in the requester the before created material must be choosed.
5) save as .gp4 and import in 3deditor.

the opposite way, having one file with all objects.
the track must be divided, so let's start from the track itself, hide all objects but the DTRACK
1) the material must be created, it's name can be tarmac.
2) SEL button, face mode and select a group of faces (you have to count the triangles to use the same divide criteria for all sections)
3) create/object/detach (choose a name for the new object)
4) repeat the 2/3 until you have finish the division (too long to write)
5) now we have the track divided, so we need to divide the rest
6) let's start applying a texture, hiding all but the DLverge and assign the texture to the part.
7) count the triangles and repeat point 2/3 until you've finished.
8) do the same for the other 7 track components.
9) many hours after, save the .gp4

some work can be saved using large divisions (100 or more triangles) but the sync with the .bin is surely lost.

the question is, is the graphic part division important?
why the original tracks has the same divisions as in the .bin?
can be this related to the track disappearing?

sorry for the long post.

well shuttle it sounds nice and all, but using my owns gp4 with the circuit in one part, combined with the original melbourne bin results in no problems at all. and they dont even match a inyminytiny bit. so you can throw the theory out the window (unfortunatly)

Yeah, it won't cause any problems, although slower pc's might suffer from a performance hit. I think the reason the track is split up into sections like it is, is for clipping and lod reduction. When you're at one side of the track, is only draws/reduces the other sections within a certain range from the current one. If it was one big section the whole thing would be drawn all the time. Judging by most of default tracks though, it shouldn't be a problem for the majority of us with decent pcs, as the clipping distances are pretty large anyway.

> Judging by most of default tracks though, it
> shouldn't be a problem for the majority of us with
> decent pcs, as the clipping distances are pretty
> large anyway.

well sure, the game is three years old. but yes your theory sounds very plausable

@B-tone:
If you were thinking about converting an f1c mesh to a GP4 .dat when you asked me the question about .3ds to .dat, then leave that hope already.
I told you this can't be done yet but even if I would do it one day it will need to build the 3d mesh the same way as it appears when you get it from a .3ds file converted from .dat.
It will then needs many conventions (regulary spaced sectors, no lonely triangle faces, made of n stripes on each sides of the tarmac and so on) to be sure it could be imported back to a .dat file and I doubt F1c tracks will suffer this conventions.

If all your new sectors have 19 commands, it means the sector you selected before creating the new multiple sectors was having 19 commands, like the sector 0 (except I thought I locked the feature to not accept to create multiple sectors from the 0 one...: / )

I don't get your point about your f1c object...you can import any .gp4 object (and now any .3ds single object) in a track without troubles....

@B-tone and Maverick;
Then I already started what you're asking as I did such feature to be able to export to a txt (but excel friendly) file the sum-up of some commands value (F0 and F6 ones mostly).
But no import back function is existing right now. I will see what I can do but I already have enough work on next version without this feature.

@Maverick:
lol, for the transparent texture trick. It's surely quicker. Oh! and you can also rename textures in 3DEditor you know

@Shutt1e:
Yep, we already spoke about it.
But I am not convinced that slicing the .gp4 track as the .bin files will solve anything. Isn't it what you did in Hockenheim and .bin file still not appears on some parts of the track ?
Anyway, every path should be explored and I will have a closer look to a possible link between unks and .bin files.

I will end saying that saving CPU power is in no doubts the most obvious reason to sliced things. This way every object can have its own clipping range and the less objects are displayed whatever the car position on the track.
Anyhow, even if the CPU/GPU power is now powerfull enough for some of us to display everything all the time, it would be better to slice the track in some parts (but surely not every 10 sectors if it can be avoided).

sorry to bother the thread.....erm mods can we have the old thread as a sticky still? i was learning some stuff from it and maybe others are also.

There's a link on page one of this thread, right at the top.

[Website]

Lo2k Wrote:
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> @Maverick:
> lol, for the transparent texture trick. It's
> surely quicker. Oh! and you can also rename
> textures in 3DEditor you know

yes, but then you can only rename 1 at a time, and you know i like fast work with hexediting i can rename all at once. i do rename some of the 000's back to regular names in 3deditor so i can insert new textures to new objects.

If all your new sectors have 19 commands, it means the sector you selected before creating the new multiple sectors was having 19 commands, like the sector 0 (except I thought I locked the feature to not accept to create multiple sectors from the 0 one...: / )

ok, so it takes the settings from the previuos. ok. i'll check montreal when i'm home - maybe sector1 has 19 cmds, or maybe i strted from 0.


I don't get your point about your f1c object...you can import any .gp4 object (and now any .3ds single object) in a track without troubles....

i loaded an f1c track in zmodeler, exported to gp4. replaced the .gp4 in the wad with this entirely f1c .gp4 file and it showed in game. so basically any 3d shape in .gp4 format will work. although i'd better check that as it sounds implausable.

@B-tone and Maverick;
Then I already started what you're asking as I did such feature to be able to export to a txt (but excel friendly) file the sum-up of some commands value (F0 and F6 ones mostly).
But no import back function is existing right now. I will see what I can do but I already have enough work on next version without this feature.


that sounds good and take your time

____
Tony

@Maverick: ok

@B-tone: As I told, I never tried myself to import an F1C so I could be wrong too. I remind someone did a conversion long time ago and the f1c track was displayed in 3ded but at that time, there were no luck to be playable in game.

An example of such excel .txt friendly is my colorfull excel pages about track and cc-pitch/dir in the old thread. I added some column to calculate values but all "original values" columns are from the .txt file made with 3DEditor.

@shutt1e did you fix that crash you had at CS:EIP=001B:0055995C as i get one at something like CS:EIP=001B:00559a5e
was it pit lane related?

@Lo2k - i just tested and i did remember rightly
i removed the .gp4 from montreals wad - stuck in another .gp4 (a rough f1c shape but could be anything) and the game loads fine. the proper dat shows up so you can see where to go (albeit with a little flickering) and the new .gp4 is green



so i guess a 3d enviornment can be built from scratch without needing to delete stuff. i guess some work needs done with 3De to sort lods and such but possibilities?

____
Tony

b-tone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @shutt1e did you fix that crash you had at
> CS:EIP=001B:0055995C as i get one at something
> like CS:EIP=001B:00559a5e
> was it pit lane related?
>
yes,pitlane related. more precisely the pitlane.bin file. using the track original pitlane.bin the crash disappear.
the 3deditor generated pitlane.bin looks as usual and seem correct but crash the game. probably something is wrong in the pitlane (in the .dat) and the resulting bin crash the game.

Hmm, I thought I automatically fixed green tint from imported .gp4 files in 13.5b ??

Anyway it's sounds fine.
I'm pretty busy right now with new 3ded internal format for .gp4 files that should enable object (and subobjects) deletion as I have to rewrite every feature handling .gp4 data in 3ded. We will see later what can be done as it should be easier then to build empty scenes or such things.

@Shutt1e: I still have your files about this trouble but I can't really find anything yet.

laurent would it be possible to generate a list of textures that aren't being used anymore? I think many edited tracks have obsolete textures, that would be a shame of the used resources just like redundent objects (but deleteing objects is already on your todo list)

> no I never checked a F1c track and will probably never look in it
i think i will. I would like to see a comparison of the f1c bahrain track and the gp4 to be bahrain track in a later stage though

Hey guys this might be a big ask but is there any chance someone could make a track for me to do some top speed tests with my physics editing. All i need is either a flat out oval or two huge straights with hairpins at either end. If anyone could help out it would be awesome.

@Erwin: Hmm, yes, I can build an automatic feature to remove unused textures.
F1c bahrein track was quite raw from what I saw so far...

@Silent-War: I have an oval track based on Monza whith 160 sectors length straights (about 780m). Only drawback are that it travels a bit through trees and both curves are a bit sharp.

PS: I build it in the monza .gp4 but it's not the old monza track.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2005 01:05AM by Lo2k.