2010 Formula 1™ Monaco GP THREAD **SPOILERS**

marcuzzi Wrote:
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> I think most drivers thought the race was over. I
> watched Alonso heating its tyres only once or two
> during the final lap, and certainly not in the way
> he uses to (we could expect him also not to put
> too much stress on them after 77 laps). Radio
> communication is clear here. At least Hamilton and
> he thought the race was over. Probably Massa had
> the same radio communication as Fernando.
>
> But then why some of them started to push at the
> SC line? My guess. If you notice, Fernando went to
> the outside of the previous corner, leaving the
> inner and cleaner side of the previous corner
> clear. After the corner he sees the green lights,
> some cars pushing, Michael speeding up, and he
> starts to push suddenly showing great lack of
> grip. Same as Massa did. If racing was his
> intention, he could have gone slower at the entry
> of that corner to get faster on the output. He
> could have warmed up his tyres. He just had to put
> his car in the middle of this corner, whatever the
> speed, to make sure no one could overtake him
> (Michael knows this well). Come on, Fernando has
> made at least 3 errors this year (bad + illegal
> starts and last saturday's crash), but this is
> even harder to expect on him.
>
> I'm not saying that the rule is ok, or that
> Michael doesn't have a point on this. I'm just
> saying that most drivers thought that the race was
> over, even if some them decided to race just in
> case when they saw the green flashing lights. The
> rule here has to be more clear. You can't wait til
> the last corner before the SC line to see which
> color will have the flags past it.

I totally agree with that.

Guimengo Wrote:
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> Funny how that video says Schumacher's lecturing
> Senna.
>
> @mcdo:
>
> I prefer it much more now without refueling,
> though I think it'd improve if teams could choose
> whether or not to pit for tires and also if they
> could stick to one compound.


I agree with this, it would be so much better if the drivers had to choose one of the compounds after free practice and use it for both qualifying and the race.

salvasirignano Wrote:
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> Guimengo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Funny how that video says Schumacher's
> lecturing
> > Senna.
> >
> > @mcdo:
> >
> > I prefer it much more now without refueling,
> > though I think it'd improve if teams could
> choose
> > whether or not to pit for tires and also if
> they
> > could stick to one compound.
>
>
> I agree with this, it would be so much better if
> the drivers had to choose one of the compounds
> after free practice and use it for both qualifying
> and the race.

I think something similar happened in 2005?

Frantic Wrote:
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> salvasirignano Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guimengo Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Funny how that video says Schumacher's
> > lecturing
> > > Senna.
> > >
> > > @mcdo:
> > >
> > > I prefer it much more now without refueling,
> > > though I think it'd improve if teams could
> > choose
> > > whether or not to pit for tires and also if
> > they
> > > could stick to one compound.
> >
> >
> > I agree with this, it would be so much better
> if
> > the drivers had to choose one of the compounds
> > after free practice and use it for both
> qualifying
> > and the race.
>
> I think something similar happened in 2005?


I don't mean no tyre changes, tyre changes would be allowed, but you could only use one of the compounds.

yes, that sounds like a good idea - and hopefully the 2011 tyre supplier has some new ideas like that.


also, Damon Hill has started getting hate mail...
[www.smh.com.au]

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X (@ed24f1)

salvasirignano Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frantic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > salvasirignano Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Guimengo Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Funny how that video says Schumacher's
> > > lecturing
> > > > Senna.
> > > >
> > > > @mcdo:
> > > >
> > > > I prefer it much more now without
> refueling,
> > > > though I think it'd improve if teams could
> > > choose
> > > > whether or not to pit for tires and also if
> > > they
> > > > could stick to one compound.
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree with this, it would be so much better
> > if
> > > the drivers had to choose one of the
> compounds
> > > after free practice and use it for both
> > qualifying
> > > and the race.
> >
> > I think something similar happened in 2005?
>
>
> I don't mean no tyre changes, tyre changes would
> be allowed, but you could only use one of the
> compounds.

Give them even more freedom. Let them choose whatever tyres they want whenever they want. It would only increase the variaty in strategies, which is always good.

Not at most circuits it wouldn't. At Monaco everyone would have started on hards with the view to making zero stops, and as a result the only overtaking would have been Alonso until he got through the 6 newcomers.

Some tracks, particularly those easier to overtake on (Silverstone, Monza, Spa) might see a bit more variation, but you know the name of the game in F1 - caution... as sad as that is.

Unfortunately the tyres are just too efficient now. We need more tyres which fall off dramatically in pace (Melbourne 2009/Hungary 1997/Monaco 2009 please), but there's a massive commercial problem with that, as the tyre supplier(s) wouldn't want their tyres to be seen as horrible, soft pieces of degrading crap.

What about if you gave them a certain amount of freedom. They had to stop at least once in a race and the tyre supplier brings all 4 compounds and the teams must choose their two compounds for quali and race day at the end of Thurs/Fri practice. Surely this would bring a real dilemma in strategy and planning?

There are some rather big logistical problems with that.

With potentially 26 cars on the grid, all being allowed some 12 (or whatever) sets of tyres over a weekend, of their own choice, you need a supply of [4 (type of tyres) x 12 (set of tyres) x 26 (cars)] 1248 set of tyres per race. That is 4992 tyres a weekend. Over a 20 race season, that is 24960 sets of tyres (99840 actual tyres) that need to be hauled all over the planet. This is of course excluding rain tyres.

I seriously doubt you can get a tyre supplier to provide the production capacity, transport and storage facilities, the administration, vehicles, on site workshops, equipment and manpower to handle that challenge, without them passing on a substantial part of the expenses to the teams. This won't fly in an area of cutting costs.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2010 04:51PM by Morbid.

gav Wrote:
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> Not at most circuits it wouldn't. At Monaco
> everyone would have started on hards with the view
> to making zero stops, and as a result the only
> overtaking would have been Alonso until he got
> through the 6 newcomers.


Never underestimate super softs and how quick you can go. Webber could have pitted twice for super softs and just run near-quali laps until the pit stop window came about.

But Webber wouldn't as he'd run the risk of coming out behind other cars (especially with the risk of safety cars at Monaco in particular).

As I said... caution is always the first thought in F1.

Only a few guys are the exception - the first that spring to mind are Hamilton (less through choice and more through necessity - think Turkey and his inevitable puncture avoidance strategy), Mansell (who always liked throwing a curveball with the tyres, or was almost overcome with motivation when it was asked of him) and Senna and Schumacher with their ability/desire to stay on their current tyres rather than just jump for the pits in changeable weather.

gav Wrote:
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> But Webber wouldn't as he'd run the risk of coming
> out behind other cars (especially with the risk of
> safety cars at Monaco in particular).
>
> As I said... caution is always the first thought
> in F1.
>
> Only a few guys are the exception - the first that
> spring to mind are Hamilton (less through choice
> and more through necessity - think Turkey and his
> inevitable puncture avoidance strategy), Mansell
> (who always liked throwing a curveball with the
> tyres, or was almost overcome with motivation when
> it was asked of him) and Senna and Schumacher with
> their ability/desire to stay on their current
> tyres rather than just jump for the pits in
> changeable weather.

Caution: just the opposite to Gilles Villeneuve

And Alesi. At Magny-Cours 1992 in particular he was epic.

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I'm not talking about cautious driving styles (a third of F1 entries since the first race would be the opposite), but cautious strategy and planning by the teams.

He (Webber red.) drove a great race, well done Mark!

Sir Stirling Mecha-Moss-tron says he would have acted the same as Schumi:

[f1.gpupdate.net]

Although the breach of the rules is clear, i do agree with him that they shouldn't start waving green flags just for the last corner - someone is bound to let instinct take over and start racing, as we saw here.

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gav Wrote:
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> But Webber wouldn't as he'd run the risk of coming
> out behind other cars (especially with the risk of
> safety cars at Monaco in particular).
>
> As I said... caution is always the first thought
> in F1.

Yes, and there are plenty examples of these strategies not working: Rosberg at Barcelona and Webber/Hamilton at Melbourne for two.

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X (@ed24f1)

A few things i noticed from this weekend, but people are overlooking, or its not reported much.
1. Alonso was told over the radio not to overtake Hamilton, just pass the last turn and finish in order like driving behind the safety car, if he hadnt been told that, i think he wouldve turned into the corner to block schumacher, but he must have thought schumacher isnt allowed to do that so just let him past, he will be penalised later. This is all on record, anti-alonso fans cant dispute the fact that alonso was told to hold position.
2. On some international coverages of the race, the commentators straight away new on the follow in order over the finish line and predicted schumacher would be punished.
3. There is an onboard video floating around on the net from the car behind barichello as barichello has his accident, there is a loose drain on the road, and it looks like barichello hits it as immediately he crashed, and you can see the drain in the video, yet the williams team have released press releases saying it was broken suspension that caused the crash, but they mention nothing of the drain that seems to have caused it. can it really be possible that they dont know that the drain caused it? some one needs to send them the video, it wasnt shown in the race coverage by the way.
4. Hamilton was close to massa for much of the race, but then faded miserably. Its looks like he overcooked his tires again, as this is evidenced on the fastest lap times, for much of the race he was in the top 5 lap times, but then as the track got faster and fuel loads lower, he faded to only record the 10th fastest lap of the race. this seems to be a problem that is occuring too often.
5. Damon Hill has taken the brunt of criticism for the penalty on schumacher, but there were 3 or 4 other people stewards involved, it is not down to one man, the others can overrule. people that are sending him hate mail must be total schumacher biased fans, that cant look at a situation logically at all.

What i would like to know is how many teams told there drivers to race at final turn and how many said to hold formation. If Ferrari had told alonso to race like mercedes did to schumacher, then it would be a great pass irrelevent of the penalty, but now that we know ferarri told alonso to hold formation, the move doesnt look all that great at all, it just looks like a piece of confusion on the track.

^Lewis had brake problems btw not tyres.

Race was a normal Monaco GP really not much going on at the front.

Great driving all weekend by Kubica and a good recovery drive by Alonso.

Webber is really on top of his game at the moment will be interesting to see how Vettel copes.

Alonso needs to stop making the errors he has been if he wants to win the championship, I do think he could have been up there with Webber.

As for the MS move it sounds like the Merc did not get the message or something like that, or did we all just assume they were finishing under safey car conditions? The rule does need to be cleared up but every team other than Merc told their drivers to hold station. I do think due to the mix up they should have just swapped the poistions back.

I do wish people would stop blaming Hill though, its not all down to him regarding the penalty.