The Official 2009 Japanese Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

What an insane quali! I think that's what happens when a field of drivers who are mainly used to Tilkedromes get let loose on a good old-style circuit. That combined with the lack of dry running yesterday of course.

Great performance so far from Vettel. His race to lose, by the look of it. I just knew he'd be strong here.

Nasty one for Timo, glad to hear he'll be OK.

The penalties applied to the drivers who didn't back off under yellows were all OK in my opinion.

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I fully understand the quali rules but today was a bit stupid. People that went through the yellow flag are still better off than people that backed off so they can say they done the right thing even though it was the wrong thing.

They should start them at the back of the grid.

From the order I saw it was Rubens 1st, then button then Alonso then Sutil. Buts its hard to tell.

This post has been run through our special "BS Removal" system, which has deleted anything irrelevant to the discussion. The results are as follows:-

in my opinion this decision is crap. Fernando told them that he didnt see very good because of the smoke and so he slowed up. Guys like Button,rubens,sutil,kubica dindnt slow an get the same penalty.

Much better, don't you think?

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"And thats the bottom line cause Alonso0506 said so"



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2009 07:17PM by Locke Cole.

Fan of The Rock I see....

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

Anyway, I think this should be an epic race. Thinking about it, it's actually far from being Vettel's race to lose, when you consider the possibility of SCs due to drivers n00bing up. And although the weather has been fine for quali, with this part of Japan it seems there's no way of knowing what it might do for sure until race day morning.
Another very unpredictable one coming up I think!

Edit: The "BS Removal System" gets a major thumbs-up from me.

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2009 07:34PM by EC83.

marcl Wrote:
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> From the order I saw it was Rubens 1st, then
> button then Alonso then Sutil. Buts its hard to
> tell.

It was Alonso then the Brawns and finally Sutil.

Fun qualy. I kind of fell asleep during Q2 and that was the main one. Annoying

Torrid luck to the Brawns and the others for running yellows. And Buemi! That's what you should be doing mate! :D

Reflecting on the positive for STR, they were flying! OK, a bit close to the edge given 3 offs, but remarkable pace all the same. I think that's the first time this season they've shown the pace that RBR have displayed in the faster tracks.

Sutil too. FI expected to perform well here, but Liuzzi has shown little (for the first time) while Sutil very quietly qualified a genuine 4th before the penalties were applied (Kubica might have got him without the yellows, but that would have been it).

It's certainly going to be interesting tomorrow. A track where you can pass, though not easily, with a topsy-turvy grid and heavy cars starting ahead of fast cars which have lighter loads. We could be in with a repeat of the epic chaos we had in Monza for the first 5 laps.

If any of the penalised drivers had thought for a moment when seeing the yellow flags, they'd be sitting pretty right now. Rubens and Button must be kicking themselves for very different reasons, while Vettel probably kicked back with an exotic cigar tonight.

Real tracks (with zero tolerance run-offs) rock.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2009 07:43PM by gav.

marcl Wrote:
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> I fully understand the quali rules but today was a
> bit stupid. People that went through the yellow
> flag are still better off than people that backed
> off so they can say they done the right thing even
> though it was the wrong thing.

+1

This could be even worst.

Scenario

Imagine a yellow flag in your last lap in Q1 when you haven't still set a good lap time. What would you do?

a. Brake! You end in P20 without penalty. 3 other drivers got +5 pos. penalties. As they finished 1, 8, 12, they will start tomorrow from p6, p13 and p17.

b. Go for the lap! You go into Q2 and Q3 and, wow!, you end in top five. Maybe you are even P1 and after the penalty you will start tomorrow from the 3rd line.

c. Doubt between a & b. Ignore the first yellow flag as you don't see anybody crashed. It's not the first time that a steward is still showing a flag that has been already removed. Then when you see the danger, or you think twice, brake. It ruins your lap.


Results:
A. P20 for driving safe
C. P20 for taking risks and doing the right thing too late (it's bad but you had some chance)
B. Up to P6 for ignoring completely the safety regulations

Judge yourself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2009 09:15PM by marcuzzi.

Cool, now it's official that it's not official. The starting grid I mean...

I don't want to bother much more with this. (I don't mind about tomorrow's race and in fact I think it's going to be even more interesting to have these drivers in the middle or last positions of the grid).

But anyhow, my opinion is that FIA rules and penalties are complicated even when some principles are quite simple. You can't get an advantage doing something against the rules. Penalties should be applied always to ensure this simple rule.



The times that are in this picture should be the only times considered for the Q2.

Button, Barrichello, Sutil got clear advantage. I hope FIA will still correct this tomorrow.

The way Rubens kept his foot down and blatted through that patch of debris reminded me of Kimi's quali lap at Spa in 2002 when he drove through Panis's engine smoke - not exactly comparable situations I know, but the same utter commitment was demonstrated.
I don't have a problem with him getting the penalty though - he earned it by failing to acknowledge the yellows.

It'll be interesting to see what progress the Brawns can make through the field.

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EC83 Wrote:
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> The way Rubens kept his foot down and blatted
> through that patch of debris reminded me of Kimi's
> quali lap at Spa in 2002 when he drove through
> Panis's engine smoke - not exactly comparable
> situations I know, but the same utter commitment
> was demonstrated.

Of course, for Button and Sutil the debris just vanished.

Presumably they'd been told over the radio about the debris, as Kimi was at Spa.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The way Rubens kept his foot down and blatted
> > through that patch of debris reminded me of
> Kimi's
> > quali lap at Spa in 2002 when he drove through
> > Panis's engine smoke - not exactly comparable
> > situations I know, but the same utter
> commitment
> > was demonstrated.
>
> Of course, for Button and Sutil the debris just
> vanished.
>
> Presumably they'd been told over the radio about
> the debris, as Kimi was at Spa.

That was quick! Yes, I guess I am guilty of a touch of fanboyism where Rubens is concerned Like I acknowledge though, he was in the wrong and deserved the grid-drop, as did the others.

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2009 12:01AM by EC83.

looking at the "expected grid" i see that Barrichello is listed as starting ahead of Sutil despite receiving a same penalty and posting a slower time in Q3 simply because he was ahead of Sutil on the track

[www.f1fanatic.co.uk]

long live the half-assed rules

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2009 11:11PM by tripleM.

That's extraordinary thinking if it turns out to be the official grid. :s I know it's late in Japan, but that's nonsense IMHO.

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That "shuffling" is a weird way of doing it. I thought all the yellow flag penalties would at least be applied at the same time, with all the offending drivers put back by the same number of places.
Bizarre.

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Surely they should all drop 5 places then the other non offending drivers slot into the gaps?

The starting order tomorrow will be stupid.

People like Rubens should be 14th on the grid not 7th or whatever it is.

They should have their time wiped from Q3 and the lap set in Q2 which was done under yellow. They should have not even got to Q3.

If the grid order is what I think it is, Rubens has been let off the hook. Instead of P5, his penalty has dropped him all the way down to P6. Ouch.

If he doesn't take this opportunity to keep the Championship battle alive, it'll be pretty disappointing.

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