Renault suspended from European GP

Yes, i can see what you mean - but, and maybe you have some examples, there is less of a precedent of that happening than wheels causing injuries and deaths both to drivers and spectators. Therefore, and perhaps you can prove me wrong with examples, wheels are equally or more dangerous as it is proven, even in recent weeks, to be a cause of a death.


To be honest, I was surprised Webber wasn't penalised - particularly after its the 2nd race in a row that Red Bull have done it. But it seems until two cars actually crash and someone gets hurt, nothing serious will happen - just like what seems to have happened here with the wheel bouncing across.

But while we may not like it, it seems the penalty is reduced if there isn't actually a crash - even Brundle mentioned this in the commentary iirc. If Raikkonen (or Webber at Nurburgring) had caused a massive pile-up, their penalties would be increased - and it seems that only because the wheel actually came off, Alonso got penalised. He could have made it back to the pitlane without it falling off, and while they may still have been penalised, it would be much less severel.

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X (@ed24f1)

The tyre/wheel was not attatched properly and the team knew but released the car.

That's actually incorrect. What you posted says they knowingly released the car with the wheel not attached correctly. The person who released the car was unaware of the situation.

Brawn did not know or have any belief of the spring failing. Renault knew the wheel locking system was not done properly and so you have to assume the worst in such a case and not allow the car on track.

As I said, the man responsible for releasing the car was not aware of the situation. Alonso was not until he reached turn 1, he said that himself. After it became aware that there was an issue, he continued. Just because 1 person knew, doesn't make a difference. The man responsible did NOT know. However Rubens also continued after they knew there was an issue. In that parts of his car had come apart and the left rear of the car was effectively sitting on the ground. Should Brawn be banned for not having Rubens stop when there was a mechanical issue? Or how about Vettel? It was clear his car was broken, and in a similar way to Rubens in that he had suspension damage. But he was allowed to continue without being suspended for a race.

At the end of the day this has never been punished before, and the only difference between this incident and any other is the component involved.

I'm not even going to continue to discuss why Webber being released into the pit lane in front of Kimi was more dangerous. The fact the Williams crew jumped out the way really should tell it all, if it wasn't already obvious enough. That side of the discussion is ridiculous.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2009 07:03PM by DaveEllis.

Martin Brundle seems to think this has been prompted by the freak accidents of Massa and Surtees:

[www.motorsport.com]


DaveEllis Wrote:
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> I'm not even going to continue to discuss why
> Webber being released into the pit lane in front
> of Kimi was more dangerous. The fact the Williams
> crew jumped out the way really should tell it all,
> if it wasn't already obvious enough. That side of
> the discussion is ridiculous.

Yep, that is an absolute no-brainer. No comparison can be drawn danger-wise between the pitlane incident and Alonso's wheel.

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Shinnbob Wrote:
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> Its a failing of the Renault team for letting
> Alonso out of the pits in the first place. The
> wheel cover didn't lock in place like it should,
> and it is unsafe to release a car when the team
> can clearly see the tyre isn't safely secured.

Probably 1 or 2 people in the team knew it wasn't secured when it was released. The jack-man might have known too if he was quickly aware that he'd let the car go while not checking all had given him the go-ahead.

It's the same as Ferrari at Singapore. If it's the unsafe release, then Ferrari should have been banned from Fuji. As it was, as far as I'm aware, the only penalty they were given was a drive-through for releasing Massa into the path of Fisichella.

Clearly the penalty has been given as a result of both allowing him to leave the pits and failing to warm him sufficiently or asking him to pull over. I've no problem with that, but a race ban for it when Ferrari got away without further penalty? When Ferrari got away with the exhaust and nothing was done? I'm not going to say Ferrari were being favoured (and I don't believe they were anyway), but even if they were, then Renault's penalty should be appropriate in some way. As it is, they've just thrown the book at them.

Deserved a penalty? Yeah, probably. But it has to be comparable.



chet Wrote:
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> The tyre/wheel was not attatched properly and the
> team knew but released the car. As Brundle said
> there is a device to prevent the released of the
> wheel in such situations. HOWEVER is that not the
> device in which the stupid wheel covers attatch
> (and that was lose)??? Also given that the wheel
> had not gone on it was no inconcievable to think
> that the spindle had failed also.

I presume you're referring to the clip that stops a wheel freely falling off if the bolt comes undone?

If so, then it worked for nearly half a lap, but eventually the forces acting upon it just made it fail. It's not designed to allow a car to get back to the pits, just to stop the wheel from immediately falling off - it gives the driver time to react and slow down if he is in control, rather than just having the wheel spear off immediately, as Hakkinen's did, as Alboreto's did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2009 08:38PM by gav.

Possible conspiracy theory here, but do you think that the FIA (with a word from Bernie) have taken advantage of the Alonso situation and deliberately banned them from Valencia (where the majority of fans are only going to see Alonso) because they dont want to circuit to be successful because the circuit isn't anywhere near as good as they expected and they went to try and get it from the calendar? I've heard Valencia has already greatly reduced the seating capacity this year.

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Now there are a lot of rather wild conspiracy theories, but that's a force 10.

Go quietly.

Ah you have to admit, it's a good one. Almost as good as that one about Kurt Cobain killing himself. If you don't mind Fincent, I'm going to spread that one.

I dont give a @#$%& either way whether Renault/Alonso race or not. Just that if we have another loose wheel after a pitstop we also see that team banned.

Sim

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Lets face it, Valencia (on the basis of last year) was complete balls, the setting wasn't anywhere near as glamorous as it was meant to be and the actual circuit itself was as bland as circuits come. If I was Bernie I'd be trying to get out of that Valencia contract as soon as I could haha!

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Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)

sasjag Wrote:
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> I dont give a @#$%& either way whether
> Renault/Alonso race or not. Just that if we have
> another loose wheel after a pitstop we also see
> that team banned.


It's the FIA. Have you ever noticed consistant ruling?

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

It's the FIA. Have you ever noticed consistant ruling?

Yes, Schumi-Todt-Brawn combination .

why would ecclestone care?

he'll agree to a race in a parking lot as long as he is the one getting paid

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The fans could certainly be forgiven for feeling they'd been cheated Alonso-wise if he didn't drive. Wiped out of last year's Valencia GP after a handful of corners, then not even getting to drive in this year's race?
They probably would think it was a conspiracy

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The date has been set then! I look forward to the outcome of the appeal. It's hardly fair on Renault though, if they do win the appeal then they only have a matter of days to prepare. Surely the FIA could arrange the appeal a week earlier? I mean its not exactly as if anyone's doing anything else over these four weeks (with the HQs all shut down)...

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Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)

Maybe not. I imagine its a long process for both parties. Both have to prepare and present their evidence. Im sure the date will be one best suited to the ICA and Renault.

They will prepare for the GP anyway, so the timeframe should not be an issue. They will go along asif they will be racing in Valencia. Still gives the trucks 3 days to travel to Valencia. Plenty of time!

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

One race ban has been overturned.

Good decision.

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Thank @#$%& for that.

Perhaps larger punishments should be introduced (such as longer-term suspended sentences for such incidents), but to simply start handing out draconian penalties without any forewarning was madness.

We said the Renault representatives would have a field day, and that's exactly what happened.

Common sense prevailed.

Someone won an appeal..

Glad that Renault won't be banned though, was a ridiculous decision by the Stewards in the first place

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It sends out a warning that the FIA are prepared to act against this sort of stuff i suppose - which is what they would have wanted.

Anyway, it will be good to see Alonso and Grosjean (probably) at Valencia - I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso took pole once again.

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X (@ed24f1)

poor decision in my view. I thought the punishment was completely justified - if a car is as obviously not ready to leave the pits as alonso's was and the team let him go, they should be kicked out.

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