FOTA Series

'We now have a conflict and we will see who succeeds in the end. I say to them: If you want to draw up your own rules, then you can organise your own championship. But we have the Formula 1 championship.'

[www.autosport.com]

Oh, wait

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flat tyre Wrote:
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> I reckon that's why Lola pulled out, too. They
> wouldn't be so interested in entering into F1,
> then suddenly pull out when there's finally an
> opportunity arising to join due to the breakaway.


who knows, maybe FOTA would allow Lola and others to join their championship.

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X (@ed24f1)

marwood82 Wrote:
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> 2 ways of looking at this.
>
> 1 - its the point of no return.
>
> 2- the "publication of the final 2010 entry list
> will be put on hold" part allows for some extra
> time to sort this out without the FIA having to be
> seen to be backing down

I think you're right, this is the point of no return. If the FIA take legal action then F1 is essentially ruined, and the breakaway series will take it's place at the top. This reminds me of the darts, when the PDC broke from the BDO, The PDC took all the top players, secured a TV deal with Sky, and now it's completely overshadowed the BDO. The same will happen here.

The FIA has no option but to change the 2010 rules. There is no way they can let the breakaway happen, it's utterly suicidal!

Well, it's not sucidal for us, I've wanted a breakaway for months, when Mosley introduced the budget cap, it was only a matter of time.

But, yes, it's sucidal for the FIA.

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It's CART/IRL all over again..........And did anything good come out of that????? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'll eat a brick if this new series fails. The fans are behind it, it completely makes sense, most serious F1 fans hate the FIA, the FOTA are the best people for the job, they wouldn't put themselves in for it if they thought it wasn't possible, and they've already had lots of support from tracks, new teams and fans. There's no good reason for it not to succeed.

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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]

it would certainly be interesting to see what sort of calendar FOTA could put together.

Silverstone, Montreal, Indanapolis and Imola could come back if asked, and FOTA could probably give them a better (or only) option than the FIA. Ferrari owns Mugello, so that could come in, Toyota owns Fuji, and after that, it becomes less obvious. if the rumours of working with Dorna are true - maybe some of the MotoGP tracks; le mans, sachsenring, qatar, phillip island etc. then after that, tracks like Paul Ricard, Algarve etc. would be a chance. Without the strict FIA rules for eligible tracks, even classic tracks like Brands Hatch and Laguna Seca could be options. i don't know if it will come to that, and i hope it doesn't, but i would be curious to see what tracks they think they could have ready for 2010.

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X (@ed24f1)

I have mixed emotions about it. Part of me is really happy and par is not exactly that happy (some observations by some people about organisation, money, and all what is needed that all things function 'naturaly'. I wanted that something like this happen but inside of F1.
It that 'new series' happen and all is sorted good than we can witness a death of F1 and born of new premier open wheel series, and with possibility of new entrants (Lola, Prodrive, N. Tec., ...) that would be F1 like it was been before (but I may be wrong, I just wish for that).
...and now what is left in F1; Williams (current biggest name), Force India, USGP, Manor, Campos, wit maybe some new (but funny to mentiod them), ...and all with Cosworth engine (single spec series), and F1 in few years can end like CART/ChampCar, because all parts that are planned to be standardizes it will be one chassis, one tire manufacturer (like it is now), and all mayor perts. Like point at the end it will loss some important circuits (Silverstone is already out of way, Monte Carlo is no longer interested in F1 without Ferrari (and other big companies). So all can predict what will happen, but that doesnt mean that automaticly 'new series' will be an easy job to do, but have more 'contents' to succeeds.

Edit; Behavior of Max Mosley and FIA remind me so much on political situation in my country. Totally ignoring public..., in this case FOTA teams



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 07:10PM by stipe.

flat tyre schreef:
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> I'll eat a brick if this new series fails. The
> fans are behind it, it completely makes sense,
> most serious F1 fans hate the FIA, the FOTA are
> the best people for the job, they wouldn't put
> themselves in for it if they thought it wasn't
> possible, and they've already had lots of support
> from tracks, new teams and fans. There's no good
> reason for it not to succeed.


Do you want me to post the brick to you or will you come over to eat it here?

There are millions of reasons that it isn't going to work, if it even is going to happen. Money, governing, contracts. Nothing, but really nothing suggests that this is actually a series that can survive. Only the fact that teambosses are setting it up is good enough for most people to support it. You know how stubborn teambosses are. And that stubborness will result in what I said in my post on P1, but I'm kind enough to copy it for you :P

If this series gets launched and the team bosses themselves will govern it, then it will collapse quickly. Now, all the teams have the same enemy: the FIA. That's what unites them, it's that and only that. The teams put aside their personal interests in order to fight that enemy together. Once that enemy is no longer there, personal interests come back and then the FOTA series will be impossible to govern.

Also, aren't many people saying how they hate the politics and wish they'd continue with focusing on racing? They are the biggest supporters of this break away series. The irony...

Probably if a breakaway series is actually set up, it will involve a lot more politics. Now it's two parties: FIA vs teams. Then it will be at least eight parties: eight teams. I can't see how that's an improvement.

Ed, they could also run in Le Mans :P

The split from USAC in 1978 (first race in 1979) was spurred by a group of activist car owners who had grown disenchanted with what they saw as an inept sanctioning body. Complaining of poor promotion and small purses, this group coalesced around Dan Gurney who, in early 1978, wrote what came to be known as the "Gurney White Paper," the blueprint for an organization called Championship Auto Racing Teams.[1] Gurney took his inspiration from the improvements Bernie Ecclestone had forced on Formula One with his creation of the Formula One Constructors Association. The White Paper called for the owners to form CART as an advocacy group to promote USAC's national championship, doing the job where the sanctioning body would not. The group would also work to negotiate television rights and race purses, and ideally hold seats on USAC's governing body.

Gurney, joined by other leading team owners such Carl Hogan, Roger Penske, and U.E. "Pat" Patrick, took their requests, which included larger representation on the USAC Board of Directors, to USAC's Board, but the proposal was rejected in November 1978. USAC's rejection of the proposal led the owners to form a new series (CART) in late 1978 under the principles laid out in the Gurney White Paper, with the first race being held in March 1979.

The newness of the organization, however, prevented it from being recognized by ACCUS, the United States representative to the FIA. An arrangement was reached with the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) where the SCCA would act as the sanctioning body for the new series. This would allow the events to be listed on the International Motorsports Calendar.

The new series quickly gained the support of the majority of team and track owners, with the only notable holdout being A.J. Foyt. This meant that the front and mid-pack teams would be racing in the new CART series. Of the 20 races held in 1979, 13 were part of the 1979 CART Championship. Of the 10 tracks to host races, 5 would host CART events exclusively and one, Ontario Motor Speedway, would host races from both series.

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@Nickv

Great post. I have pretty much same opinion even its somehow difficult to beleave..

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

As much as I would like F1 to steer clear from the path it is currently heading to (standard engines, budget caps, etc).......I seriously don't think FOTA can build a brand new championship in 9 months...............And as Nickv has been putting it, i don't see Di Montezemolo, Whitmarsh, Briatore and the other teambosses agreeeing on anything......This is just a totally unjustified, nonsense war between 2 very big egos.........

Nickv Wrote:
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> If this series gets launched and the team bosses
> themselves will govern it, then it will collapse
> quickly. Now, all the teams have the same enemy:
> the FIA. That's what unites them, it's that and
> only that. The teams put aside their personal
> interests in order to fight that enemy together.
> Once that enemy is no longer there, personal
> interests come back and then the FOTA series will
> be impossible to govern.

I was under the assumption that FOTA would organize the creation of the new series - I thought that FOTA would not govern it, but it would create a new governing body to act as the referee? Surely they're intelligent enough to realise that the governing body would collapse if it had biased team representetives running it?

> Also, aren't many people saying how they hate the
> politics and wish they'd continue with focusing on
> racing? They are the biggest supporters of this
> break away series. The irony...

The thing is, this political battle is representing the attempt to end political battles, but also, most importantly, many other factors that we can't stand about F1, such as the direction of future rules, the chance to get away from the Tilke-dromes, and many more. So, naturally, we're all for it :P

> Probably if a breakaway series is actually set up,
> it will involve a lot more politics. Now it's two
> parties: FIA vs teams. Then it will be at least
> eight parties: eight teams. I can't see how that's
> an improvement.

If the governing body is as I predicted, this should not happen. Or so we hope. But, to me, the reason that I'm so keen about the FOTA breakaway is that the aims are much clearer, and that it should at least remain a true racing series through the politics rather than another drama performance of the form of Britain's Got Talent (Max Mosely presents the Formula 1 World Champions**t. Couldn't resist).

> Do you want me to post the brick to you or will
> you come over to eat it here?

I'll supply that myself, thanks. I have a specific taste, dutch bricks are usually too well-done :P

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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 08:29PM by flat tyre.

And, for the record, Lee McKenzie has reported: "Just asked Martin Whitmarsh about 'new' championship. Lola and Prodrive also likely to join."

Looks like the guess was right. Lola did leave F1 for the FOTA. I expect N. Technology to join soon, too.

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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]

I bet it will end after the FIA elections. The ACEA (Ford, GM, Porsche, Peugeot, Volvo y Volkswagen) is unhappy with FIA too and its disappointed with the actual FIA gobernment, and they say that gobemenment cant continue... so I think this will end with Mosley out and another famous person... Jean Todt?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 08:40PM by Frantic.

I think talk of new teams joining a breakaway series is not going to happen. The Fota teams want to spend vast amounts of money each year which is why new teams can@t afford to enter F1 at the moment under these conditions. Having said that the FIA needs a kick up the arse, it needs to take F1 back to racing at traditional tracks and get rid of these present car designs, they are hideous. Indy cars look like proper race cars and can run close together at the same time.

flat tyre, You're thinking of it from a drivers point of view.

Tilke would still design tracks - it's not the FIA who generally appoint him, but those behind the track and Bernie, and there's no way that FOTA would go to supposed 3rd-rate tracks just because the layout is better at the expense of corporate hospitality - if they're organising things, then they're going to want to milk it for as much as they can.

I doubt many fans are enthused about this. The potential is there to create a fantastic new series, but it won't be realised. Common sense dictates that it will be exactly the same, but probably with the re-introduction of manufacturers modcons as I've mentioned already.

Do you really want to see TC and LC back?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 08:44PM by gav.

gav, FOTA have today been contacting various traditional racing tracks that there are no longer F1 races at. Imola, Silverstone, Montreal, and Indy were all mentioned. I think Estoril was there, too.

I remember the FOTA saying that they would try to keep the historic values, and that's just another plus point for me.

EDIT: I wonder if this has been going on behind the scenes for a long time? I've just remembered that, back in early April, Normand Legault (the Montreal promoter) was quoted as saying that he'd been consulted about a FOTA breakaway series "frequently". Maybe they're further ahead than we realise?

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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 09:34PM by flat tyre.

There are people that say F1 now is dead... they are wrong, its dead since 1998. Since 1998, FIA started to change rules almost every year, and made the cars slower. They dropped out the speed in F1, when the word "Formula 1" NEEDS to be synonymous of "speed". First with grooved tyres, then they changed the points system, then the qualy system (69484168794646976465498419849879797999999,5 times). They changed the tyre´s size, and we had for 10 years narrow and grooved tyres, instead of slicks and wide tyres. They increased downforce, decreased downforce, allowed TC, ban TC and so on. And all that stuff tended to increase controversy and decline the meaning of the sport. In other terms, FIA ruined F1 since late 90s, OK, Mosley increased a lot safety in the cars and thank God we had no killed drivers since 1994 (RIP Ayrton and Roland), but since last 5 years (and more since the orgy issue), he tended to make controversy to show who is the boss and that ruined entertainment, and now the most important historic teams (Ferrari, McLaren), and the rest of FOTA are leaving to make their own series, all because Mosley´s tried to show who´s the boss, and failed. The people that make real F1 are teams and drivers, not Mosley, or Briatore, or Tilke, or whoever. Mosley has abused of his charge in FIA, and now everyone are versus him, and they´re right. I mean, this seems to be that Mosley is getting rid from the enemies and he want a low-cost F1, but not with their enemies (Ferrari for ex.), he wants something with new teams, and hes going to make from F1 a big GP2...