FOTA Series
Posted by chet
But he couldnt do anything about the damage if it was made up, so why is that his fault? It doesnt make sense Chet.
Gav the long term effects are that this story is still in the back of alot of peoples minds. Im sure you've seen the many jokes on forums even long after. The odd little jab by Clarkson and Flavio and many in more in private.
Poeple havent just simply forgot it have they. The effect is that whenever people look back over his career it will unfortunatly be overshadowed by the event.
It always happens in history, not long after we find something else to talk about but upon reflection a few years later we remember. An event like that will never really truley be forgotten will it? Besides that though it never physically upset people (despite insulting people because of the religious implications) the real issue was the image it put across.
But he couldnt do anything about the damage if it was made up, so why is that his fault? It doesnt make sense Chet.
His private life was uncovered because someone knew of it. He had a wife and kids, I would have expected him to hide his private life in such a way that this would not happen. Not for him, but for his family. That was his fault imo.
What good, since that event has he done? To say it did not effect his judgment is maybe true (impossible to know). Afterall his judgment was all over the place before hand was it not? We have lists and lists of his poor judgments.
He was not responsible for how close the F1 WDC and WCC have been. That is down to the teams and nothing more but chance. Unless you consider poor steward decisions which have adversly effected WDC and WCC results then it is total bs that he is responsible for how close the F1 championships have been. He has not been good for the sport. I mention increased saftey measures but that has been a joint venture by teams/drivers and the FIA. His reign will be overshadowed by spank-gate, unstable rules, and poor and inconsistant steward decisions.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Poeple havent just simply forgot it have they. The effect is that whenever people look back over his career it will unfortunatly be overshadowed by the event.
It always happens in history, not long after we find something else to talk about but upon reflection a few years later we remember. An event like that will never really truley be forgotten will it? Besides that though it never physically upset people (despite insulting people because of the religious implications) the real issue was the image it put across.
But he couldnt do anything about the damage if it was made up, so why is that his fault? It doesnt make sense Chet.
His private life was uncovered because someone knew of it. He had a wife and kids, I would have expected him to hide his private life in such a way that this would not happen. Not for him, but for his family. That was his fault imo.
What good, since that event has he done? To say it did not effect his judgment is maybe true (impossible to know). Afterall his judgment was all over the place before hand was it not? We have lists and lists of his poor judgments.
He was not responsible for how close the F1 WDC and WCC have been. That is down to the teams and nothing more but chance. Unless you consider poor steward decisions which have adversly effected WDC and WCC results then it is total bs that he is responsible for how close the F1 championships have been. He has not been good for the sport. I mention increased saftey measures but that has been a joint venture by teams/drivers and the FIA. His reign will be overshadowed by spank-gate, unstable rules, and poor and inconsistant steward decisions.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
I dont think your supporting him at all.
The teams self-governing would be a mistake, but to keep with him would be just as big mistake. Its always been my opinion that F1 should be seperate of the FIA. Think of it like this, Max in effect has control over every motorsport under the FIA. Thats a hell of alot. He spends alot of his time at race meetings, alot of his time with Bernie. I think he too closley asociates himself with F1 and FOM. I think F1 should have its own governing body seperate of the FIA, but maybe run by the FIA. A whole bunch of new people and most importantly a new president.
To me F1 needs a few very simple things:
In my opinion to give clear and consise regulations with a stable platform, clear steward decisions which provide (if possible) numerical evidence for decisions and if not a full report (at least 1 page of documentation) on why such a decision was made. For this I think we need is a complete breakaway from the current way of running. I strongly believe a representative from each team could draw up the regulations over a 5 year plan at least. As for steward decisions there should be enough provided at each race meeting to give penaltys during the race, after a race the result stands no matter what. Obviously regarding legality of racecars is a different matter. These stewards are to be the only stewards at every race weekend and the decisions they make will take into account all data and previous decisions made. ALL data will be provided to the FIA, before the season the teams will have to sign an agreement to allow the FIA (or whatever) to have access to the teams technical data in the event of penaltys. If they do not sign then they can not race. Data will include everything from the basics, load at each wheel (to determine downforce), and ride height movement etc all data which would provide enough information on the cars dynamics at any one point during a given time period.
To me, these are the very simplist of instructions to provide even the basic of ingrediants we ask of F1. To me this has been possible since a very long time ago, and why it has not been done I dont know! We are not given enough information about decisions. Race results are changed when the people go home. They'll return to find the motor-race they just watched was completley changed... This is not what the pinnacle should be. Its almost similar to football, why wont football have video replays? Its a disgrace watching players go down, diving and then receiving possibly game changing free-kicks? I dont follow football too closley but why hasnt it embraced video-replays like Rugby has? To me it was a fantastic idea!
Btw, a little something about Manor.
The reason Nick Wirth is involved in Manor is because of the challenge of building a racecar to a £40mil budget. The whole point of his company helping Manor was because they liked the idea of sustainable motorsport and a fair field.
With out the budget cap will Wirth keep his interest? Afterall he made it apparent his wish was never to get into F1 which favoured the rich?? Then again ive always thought was abit whimpish, as Toyota have proved money is not everything, RedBull, Williams and Renault also prove that you can produce quick cars with not alot of cash (relativley). So what will happen? Will Wirth want to continue without the cap? If not then what will happen to Manor? I cant imagine Wirth pulling out on the project so late but we'll see. Maybe Max will help out a little.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
The teams self-governing would be a mistake, but to keep with him would be just as big mistake. Its always been my opinion that F1 should be seperate of the FIA. Think of it like this, Max in effect has control over every motorsport under the FIA. Thats a hell of alot. He spends alot of his time at race meetings, alot of his time with Bernie. I think he too closley asociates himself with F1 and FOM. I think F1 should have its own governing body seperate of the FIA, but maybe run by the FIA. A whole bunch of new people and most importantly a new president.
To me F1 needs a few very simple things:
In my opinion to give clear and consise regulations with a stable platform, clear steward decisions which provide (if possible) numerical evidence for decisions and if not a full report (at least 1 page of documentation) on why such a decision was made. For this I think we need is a complete breakaway from the current way of running. I strongly believe a representative from each team could draw up the regulations over a 5 year plan at least. As for steward decisions there should be enough provided at each race meeting to give penaltys during the race, after a race the result stands no matter what. Obviously regarding legality of racecars is a different matter. These stewards are to be the only stewards at every race weekend and the decisions they make will take into account all data and previous decisions made. ALL data will be provided to the FIA, before the season the teams will have to sign an agreement to allow the FIA (or whatever) to have access to the teams technical data in the event of penaltys. If they do not sign then they can not race. Data will include everything from the basics, load at each wheel (to determine downforce), and ride height movement etc all data which would provide enough information on the cars dynamics at any one point during a given time period.
To me, these are the very simplist of instructions to provide even the basic of ingrediants we ask of F1. To me this has been possible since a very long time ago, and why it has not been done I dont know! We are not given enough information about decisions. Race results are changed when the people go home. They'll return to find the motor-race they just watched was completley changed... This is not what the pinnacle should be. Its almost similar to football, why wont football have video replays? Its a disgrace watching players go down, diving and then receiving possibly game changing free-kicks? I dont follow football too closley but why hasnt it embraced video-replays like Rugby has? To me it was a fantastic idea!
Btw, a little something about Manor.
The reason Nick Wirth is involved in Manor is because of the challenge of building a racecar to a £40mil budget. The whole point of his company helping Manor was because they liked the idea of sustainable motorsport and a fair field.
With out the budget cap will Wirth keep his interest? Afterall he made it apparent his wish was never to get into F1 which favoured the rich?? Then again ive always thought was abit whimpish, as Toyota have proved money is not everything, RedBull, Williams and Renault also prove that you can produce quick cars with not alot of cash (relativley). So what will happen? Will Wirth want to continue without the cap? If not then what will happen to Manor? I cant imagine Wirth pulling out on the project so late but we'll see. Maybe Max will help out a little.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With out the budget cap will Wirth keep his
> interest? Afterall he made it apparent his wish
> was never to get into F1 which favoured the rich?
>
> He was fine building a car to dominate the ALMS P1
> class against a bunch of randoms in 4 year old
> customer Lolas, however.
True, perhaps what's funniest is that the nearest competitor to the ARX-02 is the ARX-01!
His interview in Autosport, GB GP Preview one, made it clear that he would not enter F1 under the current circumstances.
edit - then its slightly different isnt it? Im not sure on this at all, but wasnt he just used as a type of design consultancy? so Acura paid him to design them a car and thats that. Does he have no further part in the development of it? I thought thats as far as the relationship went, whereas with Manor nad because of type of car it will be a lasting working deal/relationship.
But iam not sure whether that was the case or not.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2009 03:26PM by chet.
-------------------------------------------------------
> With out the budget cap will Wirth keep his
> interest? Afterall he made it apparent his wish
> was never to get into F1 which favoured the rich?
>
> He was fine building a car to dominate the ALMS P1
> class against a bunch of randoms in 4 year old
> customer Lolas, however.
True, perhaps what's funniest is that the nearest competitor to the ARX-02 is the ARX-01!
His interview in Autosport, GB GP Preview one, made it clear that he would not enter F1 under the current circumstances.
edit - then its slightly different isnt it? Im not sure on this at all, but wasnt he just used as a type of design consultancy? so Acura paid him to design them a car and thats that. Does he have no further part in the development of it? I thought thats as far as the relationship went, whereas with Manor nad because of type of car it will be a lasting working deal/relationship.
But iam not sure whether that was the case or not.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2009 03:26PM by chet.
it might come to nothing, but i reckon max has still got another card up his sleeve
"Interestingly, Mosley also revealed that the peace deal was only going to be set in stone if FOTA "could strike an agreement with the Williams and Force India teams ... and the three new teams.""
[en.f1-live.com]
"Meanwhile, a report in The Guardian said the rebel teams are preparing to protest the involvement of Alan Donnelly, Mosley's right-hand man at Grand Prix, in the new Manor team.
Manor involves Mosley's former Simtek colleague Nick Wirth, and the British newspaper said F1 chief steward Donnelly's company is engaged in public relations for the team.
Donnelly is also accused of escorting a Manor executive around a recent European F1 paddock, but a source close to him denies he has any "direct involvement" with the team."[/i]
[en.f1-live.com]
So Max could, possibly, use this to his advantage if it comes to that. But it also seems the teams know what could happen and are looking to try and prevent Donnelly getting involved in case he does have an influence.
X (@ed24f1)
"Interestingly, Mosley also revealed that the peace deal was only going to be set in stone if FOTA "could strike an agreement with the Williams and Force India teams ... and the three new teams.""
[en.f1-live.com]
"Meanwhile, a report in The Guardian said the rebel teams are preparing to protest the involvement of Alan Donnelly, Mosley's right-hand man at Grand Prix, in the new Manor team.
Manor involves Mosley's former Simtek colleague Nick Wirth, and the British newspaper said F1 chief steward Donnelly's company is engaged in public relations for the team.
Donnelly is also accused of escorting a Manor executive around a recent European F1 paddock, but a source close to him denies he has any "direct involvement" with the team."[/i]
[en.f1-live.com]
So Max could, possibly, use this to his advantage if it comes to that. But it also seems the teams know what could happen and are looking to try and prevent Donnelly getting involved in case he does have an influence.
X (@ed24f1)
Good point Lopper, regarding the "bastardness". As dislikeable as the guy is, some of the decisions that job requires can't be made with a caring/compassionate attitude. And someone who has the ability to make that kind of decision regularly and the ability to be generally liked at the same time is very rare.
So Max has been reactivated, LOL.
[www.wheels24.co.za]
[www.pitpass.com]
Indication really seems to be that he'll stand for re-election. Oh dear.
[www.wheels24.co.za]
[www.pitpass.com]
Indication really seems to be that he'll stand for re-election. Oh dear.
Its always different on the other side isnt it 
!!
I wonder if he knew of the of Audi and Pug departure. I sure do want to see a fight between them all. I reckon that Acura could give them a good run for their money on road courses. Its a guess that Audi designed and built their car for le mans seeing as though it was the main race they would compete in (despite my opinion being different based on the visuals of the car, ie big louvers - big drag, big opening - big drag). To me that means at let's say at laguna seca Acura could have beat Audi.
I hope he continues with Manor, id be very interested to see what he comes up with.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
!!I wonder if he knew of the of Audi and Pug departure. I sure do want to see a fight between them all. I reckon that Acura could give them a good run for their money on road courses. Its a guess that Audi designed and built their car for le mans seeing as though it was the main race they would compete in (despite my opinion being different based on the visuals of the car, ie big louvers - big drag, big opening - big drag). To me that means at let's say at laguna seca Acura could have beat Audi.
I hope he continues with Manor, id be very interested to see what he comes up with.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
heh, i guess even the WMSC decision isn't binding for the man who gets offended by being termed a dictator
"Furthermore, you have suggested to the media that I was a 'dictator', an accusation which is grossly insulting to the 26 members of the World Motor Sport Council who have discussed and voted all the rules and procedures of Formula 1 since the 1980s"
"The World Motor Sport Council met in Paris on 24 June 2009. The following decisions were taken:
FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
All currently competing teams have committed to the FIA Formula One World Championship.
There will be no alternative series or championship and the rules for 2010 onwards will be the 2009 regulations as well as further regulations agreed prior to 29 April 2009.
As part of this agreement, the teams will, within two years, reduce the costs of competing in the championship to the level of the early 1990s. The manufacturer teams have agreed to assist the new entries for 2010 by providing technical assistance.
The manufacturer teams have further agreed to the permanent and continuing role of the FIA as the sport’s governing body. They have also committed to the commercial arrangements for the FIA Formula One World Championship until 2012 and have agreed to renegotiate and extend this contract before the end of that period.
All teams will adhere to an upgraded version of the governance provisions of the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
The following teams have been accepted for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship.
TEAM
SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO
VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES
BMW SAUBER F1 TEAM
RENAULT F1 TEAM
PANASONIC TOYOTA RACING
SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO
RED BULL RACING
AT&T WILLIAMS
FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM
BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM
CAMPOS META TEAM
MANOR GRAND PRIX
TEAM US F1
CONSTRUCTOR
FERRARI
McLAREN MERCEDES
BMW SAUBER
RENAULT
TOYOTA
STR TBA
RBR TBA
WILLIAMS TOYOTA
FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
BRAWN TBA
CAMPOS COSWORTH
MANOR COSWORTH
TEAM US F1 COSWORTH
In view of this new agreement and with the prospect of a stable future for Formula One, FIA President Max Mosley has confirmed his decision not to stand for re-election in October this year."
but of course
"During the course of this meeting, the team managers were informed by Mr Charlie Whiting of the FIA that, contrary to previous agreements, the eight FOTA teams are not currently entered into the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship and have no voting rights in relation to the technical and sporting regulations thereof."
time for a breakaway, period
"Furthermore, you have suggested to the media that I was a 'dictator', an accusation which is grossly insulting to the 26 members of the World Motor Sport Council who have discussed and voted all the rules and procedures of Formula 1 since the 1980s"
"The World Motor Sport Council met in Paris on 24 June 2009. The following decisions were taken:
FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
All currently competing teams have committed to the FIA Formula One World Championship.
There will be no alternative series or championship and the rules for 2010 onwards will be the 2009 regulations as well as further regulations agreed prior to 29 April 2009.
As part of this agreement, the teams will, within two years, reduce the costs of competing in the championship to the level of the early 1990s. The manufacturer teams have agreed to assist the new entries for 2010 by providing technical assistance.
The manufacturer teams have further agreed to the permanent and continuing role of the FIA as the sport’s governing body. They have also committed to the commercial arrangements for the FIA Formula One World Championship until 2012 and have agreed to renegotiate and extend this contract before the end of that period.
All teams will adhere to an upgraded version of the governance provisions of the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
The following teams have been accepted for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship.
TEAM
SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO
VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES
BMW SAUBER F1 TEAM
RENAULT F1 TEAM
PANASONIC TOYOTA RACING
SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO
RED BULL RACING
AT&T WILLIAMS
FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM
BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM
CAMPOS META TEAM
MANOR GRAND PRIX
TEAM US F1
CONSTRUCTOR
FERRARI
McLAREN MERCEDES
BMW SAUBER
RENAULT
TOYOTA
STR TBA
RBR TBA
WILLIAMS TOYOTA
FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
BRAWN TBA
CAMPOS COSWORTH
MANOR COSWORTH
TEAM US F1 COSWORTH
In view of this new agreement and with the prospect of a stable future for Formula One, FIA President Max Mosley has confirmed his decision not to stand for re-election in October this year."
but of course
"During the course of this meeting, the team managers were informed by Mr Charlie Whiting of the FIA that, contrary to previous agreements, the eight FOTA teams are not currently entered into the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship and have no voting rights in relation to the technical and sporting regulations thereof."
time for a breakaway, period
This is what the FIA's all about, it seems. I can't even think of a reason for them running the sport in this way. Money, maybe? But how would acting foolish like this bring them money?! It's beyond me.
Knowing that the FIA would act like this was one of the reasons that I was so much in favour of the breakaway. I still am, and this really pushes the point forward to me. They were always going to do this by the looks of it.
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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
Knowing that the FIA would act like this was one of the reasons that I was so much in favour of the breakaway. I still am, and this really pushes the point forward to me. They were always going to do this by the looks of it.
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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
"We give you the person responsible for this crap"
Interesting article, hits the nail on the head imo:
[www.pitpass.com]
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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
[www.pitpass.com]
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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
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