Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

J i m Wrote:
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> Bruninho
>
> Yet again you display a sublime talent for failing
> to look at things objectively. Senna's penalty was
> justified. There's no two ways about it. You can't
> say the release was unsafe but then say a penalty
> is unjustified.
>
> I wanted Senna to win, to close down Pantano in
> the championship. But it wasn't to be. And if
> we're completely objective, Senna really should
> have had two penalties. Early in race he out
> braked himself at the Bus stop and made a visible
> gain from straight lining it.
>
> The pit stop wasn't his fault, but gaining from a
> mistake certainly was.

And Ferrari #2 fined by 10.000 euros was justified too? Same s*** and different penalties?

Di Grassi did the same to Senna @ Silverstone and yet he didnt get a Drive Through!!

Certainly its NOT me who is failing to see the things objectively. If they praise for the rules to be followed, they BETTER DO IT WITH THE SAME WEIGHT FOR THE SAME EVENTS!

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2008 08:58PM by Bruninho.

Think about what you saying.

You are saying that Senna should have got off simply because others have in the past, or been handed with a different kind of penalty.

That is not the way to justify an infringement.

Think about it for just one moment... what would you say if a judge refused to jail a terrorist who conspired to kill on the grounds of other people either getting off, or otherwise going undetected.

You argument doesn't stand up. Yes Di Grassi should have been penalised, Massa should have the drive thru. But you can't say Senna's penalty was unjustified simply because Di Grassi and Massa got away with it.

Yes the stewards are at fault, but you can't go letting people off for an infringement just because some other case slipped through the net.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2008 09:05PM by J i m.

I still don't agree that Massa's penalty was justified, because in my opinion, it wasn't unsafe. It wasn't even comparable to the examples offered since.

It's karma for Senna. He should have had a penalty for cutting the chicane (as Jim said), and if he had, perhaps he wouldn't have been in a position to exit the pitlane unsafely a few laps later, and possibly might have scored while Pantano went about his cocking up.

Well, I've been kinda unfased about F1 lately...I didn't even watch the Valencia race properly...circuit was a lot more boring than I thought. Today, I watched qualy, and though Kimi was better than the past races, it's still kinda disappointing to see him performing like this. I hope tomorrow things work for him.

One thing that I did notice is that F1 needs Alonso back on a good car...his performances are missed. So are Kimi's, but then that's a personal problem, and not so much a car problem.

Back to the race at hand, it would be good to see Massa and Hamilton cocking up at the beggining to give Kimi a chance to win here and I say this for two reasons: I want to see him winning at Spa for the 4th consecutive time and I don't want to see him out of the championship fight.

Bruninho Wrote:
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> hahahahaha dont make me laugh
>
> both exits were unsafe, no difference between them
> (apart of the cars, ofcourse), yet they gave them
> different penalties... the only problem Bruno
> Senna has is, he wasnt driving a Ferrari so
> Ferrari International Assistance couldnt help
> him...
>
> It was unjustified, as FIA weeks ago fined Massa
> by 10.000 for exactly the same sh**! Two weights
> and two different measures? F*** them!
>
> At least Pantano screwed up again and took out Di
> Grassi together - Had Senna won it without the
> stewards stealing his win, he could easily win the
> title at Monza. Well done to the stewards for
> ruining a 1 year work of a great driver.

***************ALERT ALERT ************
Bruninho called Ferrari#2 by his name!! You can check on the previous page.











And Bruninho, I'm just having some fun,don't you dare be offended

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Hehehe

gav Wrote:
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> The thing is, that was definitely an unsafe exit,
> whereas I still don't think the Valencia Massa one
> was.

I agree with the fact that Senna's was unsafe and he had to be punished, but where I disagree is the fact that Massa's wasn't unsafe, he broke the rules exacly the same imo, fact is this ain't Nascar its F1 and the pitlane is big enough for 1 car only.


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2008 11:19PM by Ianwoollam.

But there's no definition of unsafe. There's nothing at all in the rules to say that cars aren't allowed side-by-side in the pitlane. It's open to interpretation, and the only things they could hit in Valencia were a wall or the safety car. The GP2 incident was different, as it happened further down the pit-road, where unprotected mechanics were standing, like today.

I'm still not going to defend Ferrari for releasing him when they could have just waited half a second and removed all doubt, but by the definition of the rules, I still don't see how Massa was punished at all, whereas I can see how Chandhok and Senna were.

Ianwoollam Wrote:
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> I agree with the fact that Senna's was unsafe and
> he had to be punished, but where I disagree is the
> fact that Massa's wasn't unsafe, he broke the
> rules exacly the same imo, fact is this ain't
> Nascar its F1 and the pitlane is big enough for 1
> car only.

+1

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FROM GP2 STEWARDS

Pantano excluded from this event, Zuber disqualified
The championship leader excluded from the Spa-Francorchamps event. Andreas Zuber
disqualified from Race 1.
Giorgio Pantano was excluded from the Spa-Francorchamps event after the stewards have
considered that he caused a collision with Lucas di Grassi on the last lap through “reckless
driving and unsportsmanlike behaviour” which ended the Campos man’s participation in the race.
In addition, in a separate incident, it was shown that Pantano overtook whilst the safety car was
deployed.
As a consequence, it has been decided that the Racing Engineering driver was excluded from
this Event, including classification in Race 1.
Andreas Zuber was disqualified after Race 1 when unauthorised repairs to his Piquet Sports car
were noted. Third place thus goes to his teammate Pastor Maldonado, and Jérôme d’Ambrosio
will start from the reversed-grid pole position in tomorrow’s sprint race while Zuber will start last.

YAY!!!

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If they excluded GP2 drivers every week for driving like Pantano did then it would be a non-Championship series of events. Might as well implement a NASCAR Style Chase For The Cup system if your going to feck around with results to create a championship battle.

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gav Wrote:
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> But there's no definition of unsafe.

Then they have to use common sense, and having 2 cars side by side coming to the exit of a 1 car wide pitlane on an extremely narrow exit with a safety car there which could be deployed at any second of the race is not exacly using common sense now is it? Granted at Valencia they got away without an incident, but in that retrospective Senna got away without an incident too! imo whether it happens at the start, half way, or coming to the end of the pitlane its still unsafe.


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2008 10:43AM by Ianwoollam.

Motorsports would be soooo much better without FIA...

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

massas penalty was fair, there are incidents like that in the pitlane nearly every race, and drivers dont get punished, so why should massa get punished and potentially lose the championship because of that, and its the teams error, not the drivers, so massa shouldnt get punished, only the team.

Ianwoollam Wrote:
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> Then they have to use common sense, and having 2
> cars side by side coming to the exit of a 1 car
> wide pitlane on an extremely narrow exit with a
> safety car there which could be deployed at any
> second of the race is not exacly using common
> sense now is it? Granted at Valencia they got
> away without an incident, but in that
> retrospective Senna got away without an incident
> too! imo whether it happens at the start, half
> way, or coming to the end of the pitlane its still
> unsafe.

Your idea of common sense is if an incident is avoided? Come on Ian, I know you better than that! :P



Watching that last GP2 race, the driving standards were shocking. I don't mean the slipping and sliding or the crashes, but some of the defending was atrocious. The worst example was Soucek pushing Maldonado onto the grass, touching wheels on the run up to Les Combes, and it should be worthy of a disqualification in itself.

Buemi moving over in the braking zone for the chicane was pretty stupid too. No wonder Senna was a bit pissed.

I hate this increasing trend of pushing drivers over the kerb exiting a corner. It's probably a side effect of having big tarmac run-off areas, but it should be stopped.

Thumbs up to Grosjean. He's got some properly proportioned balls in those overalls.

Love watching Maldonado too. He's technically @#$%&, seems to crash every other race, but he's so entertaining to watch. Nice to see him win, and naturally it was done in some style. :D

gav Wrote:
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> Your idea of common sense is if an incident is
> avoided? Come on Ian, I know you better than that!
> :P

Nah I've just heard people saying that apparantly because there wasn't an incident its alright but Massa would have got a penalty if he had hit something, kinda my daft way of bouncing around subjects midspeech again, should have started a new paragraph but meh anyway imo it shouldn't matter what the outcome was and the FIA should show some damn consistency in their rulings instead of making their rules like that vague so they can interprit the rules as they please (Usually what they think will make it more exciting rather than whats right/wrong)


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam

Piquet don a Piquet.

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Holy christ, what a last few laps!!!

________________________________________

Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...

THE SIG


Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.

Wow. Kimi really threw it away, didn't he. Massa v. Hamilton for the title now!

[Website]

Well.. at least Massa didn't spin it in this race :p.