2012 Hungarian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

gav Wrote:
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> I already knew who won, so when I came to watch
> it, @#$%& was it boring. I guess watching it live
> there would have been a little tension, but there
> was absolutely zero racing. It was more of a
> time-trial. A reminder of what F1 was like in the
> bad old days of just a few years ago.

I fell asleep. I can't believe I sat through years of this stuff.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

For whatever reason nothing happened in the midfield which certainly contributed to the negative reactions to the race. I think Pirelli are partly to blame as they were more conservative with their tyre choices than 2011 for some inexplicable reason.

At the track it was pretty tense watching the battle for the lead, particularly when Kimi got involved as he is the most popular driver amongst the fans there.

By the way, I got a photo (well actually it's a screenshot of a video) of Schumacher in the wrong grid slot
[twitpic.com]

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X (@ed24f1)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2012 11:47PM by SchueyFan.

race was very good. and this comes from a MS fan, so basically i had no one to root for.

murray said it well once, there is no such a think like a boring f1 race. there are just people who aren't such fans to get thrilled and interested from things other than passing. I personally enjoyed the race really. and btw, mr Raikkonen, Grosjean, Webber and Button, should take a look at some of mr. Prost's races (e.g., mexico 1990, hungary 1988, estoril 1990 and many others) to actually understand how to pass a car, when being in the dirty air. i honestly believe that overtaking was possible. Webber's car was appr. .5 - .08 of a second faster than the williams on the SAME tyre compound. When he pitted at the end and had a fresh rubber from the softs he would have been about 2.0 - 2,5 sec. a lap faster. Now, being that much faster and havinng DRS and not being able to pass a car, which wasnt particulary fast on the straights (like the FI or the Macca) is just unexusable.

of course all those guys i mentioned could have simply had a very short 7th gear, but this is part of driver's intelligence. on a track like this you always have to account for sth. that will contribute to your overtaking chance.

i struggle a bit to undestand why some drivers weren't able, i know the nature of the track plays a big role but honestly the best overtakers are Hamilton and Alonso, the rest are ok but they don't seem to risk beyond.
Alonso pulled a move on Perez, well executed ouside the DRS Zone, same as Maldonado on DiResta and that was a it. BTW anyone else thinks the Penalty on Maldonado was based more on his reputation than the actual incident?

but what worries me is Kimi, we know he's a great racer and all but where is the Kimi from 2005, the on that would fly past you, in Bahrain he would've got Vettel in that one chance no doubt, but it seems he's still missing something. apparently is still that steering issue which is probably not giving him 100% confidence. i hope that's what it is
yes, he has done some moves this year but let's face it, Overtaking has become so easy that drivers are probably getting spoiled on risking on hard moves, or getting closer and closer to pull the move, and so are we?

I noted that the Williams had very good traction out of the last turn again.. good enough to hold back the RBR in the DRS zone.

The Maldonaldo penalty may have had something to do reputation... but at the very least he should have been told to give Di Resta the position back because he effectively overtook by pushing him off the track. He needs to learn what is acceptable race craft.

We all love close wheel to wheel racing... But Maldonaldo doesn't do it with any finesse. Can you imagine had it been him that Webber overtook at Eau Rouge last year instead of Alonso? They'd still be pulling shards of carbon fibre out of the trees.

mitadumapaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> race was very good. and this comes from a MS fan,
> so basically i had no one to root for.
>
> murray said it well once, there is no such a think
> like a boring f1 race. there are just people who
> aren't such fans to get thrilled and interested
> from things other than passing. I personally
> enjoyed the race really. and btw, mr Raikkonen,
> Grosjean, Webber and Button, should take a look at
> some of mr. Prost's races (e.g., mexico 1990,
> hungary 1988, estoril 1990 and many others) to
> actually understand how to pass a car, when being
> in the dirty air. i honestly believe that
> overtaking was possible. Webber's car awas appr. .5
> - .08 of a second faster than the williams on the
> SAME tyre compound. When he pitted at the end and
> had a fresh rubber from the softs he would have
> been about 2.0 - 2,5 sec. a lap faster. Now, being
> that much faster and havinng DRS and not being
> able to pass a car, which wasnt particulary fast
> on the straights (like the FI or the Macca) is
> just unexusable.

The trouble is that with the extreme tyres we have now means that off line is extremely filthy, and in a lot of the time unless you can drs and get back infront for the braking zone then youre just going to slide into the corner.

_______________________________________________________________________

I've seen worse.

Button was slow, but was not helped by some awful strategic calls. Mclaren AND RedBull ruined both Button's AND Webber's and Vettel's races. Majorly. Majorly.

It was obvious to I that for a 3 stopper to work you need to either be a) LEADING or b) able to lead via overtaking. For Button overtaking was a problem as it was for... everyone. For Webber, his issue was that he was so far down.

Button lost 4th place IMO and Webber lost possibly 5th to wherever he did finish!

It was amazingly outrageously stupid.

Before the race we knew the tyres would last a fair chunk. And we knew from the first few laps that overtaking even with DRS was still very, very hard. I was simply amazed at how dumb Mclaren were, THEN RedBull. Surely once Button came out behind Alonso and could not pass, as could not Kimi earlier too. RedBull would have thought, maybe the same will occur with Webber? But no. They did not.

F1 teams have some of the most clever people around but I do not often see that many intelligent people make such stupid mistakes. Unless of course your involved in finance and see it everyday?

Big, HUGE for Mclaren and RedBull on Sunday. Huge, massive kudos to Kimi. Man of the race IMO. Lewis did good but Kimi was awesome.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Why has MS not been fined for parking on the wrong slot and causing the race to be delayed? In the past drivers have been given a fine for this?

chet, he had to be fined, but since the stewards gave him the drive through penalty (which was incorrect, because the race wasnt't started yet) they simply could not have applied a second penalty. What bothers me is much more the fact that he missed his starting grid slot. I mean, come on, he had a sauber ahead and should have placed himself behind the sauber. how could he missjudge that ?!?!?!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 03:11PM by mitadumapaga.

and you cant exactly say he's lost his mojo. he did superb to be in 3-rd, both in UK and Germany, then fought very clean and kept massa e.g., as long as possible behind him.

hmm. maybe he now realizes how pathetic his team actually is and is slowly beggining to lose faith in it. it is really a shame that with the likes of: aldo costa, geoff willis, ross brawn, norbert haug, bob bell and 2 (in my opinion) great drivers theteam is such a shambles. Rosberg even admitted he doesn't know what the key issue is with their car. Fine, the McLarens struggled both, in valencia and UK, and then stunned everyone with their pace in hungary and hockenheim (dry). Therefore i am inclined to give mercedes a chance to deliver at spa and monza, but if they dont score at least 2 podium on those occasions, then they should really re-consider if they are in the right sport, and mainly if they have the right people. Everyone is immediately pointing the finger at the drivers - schumacher and nico, but i think it is the people behind them, who actually fail to deliver. those people being the above mentioned designers, technicians and strategists.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 03:14PM by mitadumapaga.

It's better than Fisichella, who actually parked on the wrong side of the grid in Sepang once. He managed to cock up his starting position there twice.

I think the main problem is that the car is essentially a shitbox. Secondly neither Schuey or Rosberg compare to Lewis, Vettel or Alonso in terms of overall quality, and that is really showing. You can count on Rosberg to get you the result a car deserves, and that's about it. Schuey has been awfully unlucky this season, but still we have only really seen 2 real flashes of the guy we all remember, and they were last year in Canada and Spa. Just imagine where Alonso would be with that car?

Compounding Mercedes' problems, their 'magical super duper' DRS has been banned for 2013.

[www.autosport.com]

I'm just interested to see how many ex-technical directors they decide to sign over the winter months now.

Edit: Gav, wasn't that 2001.

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 03:42PM by Ferrari2007.

gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's better than Fisichella, who actually parked
> on the wrong side of the grid in Sepang once. He
> managed to cock up his starting position there
> twice.

haha. good one. ironically, though, Sepang was the scene of his last ever grand prix victory. i guess fisichella just wasn't that good. he had the car 2 seasons in a row (2005, 2006) and still managed to only score two wins in over 35 races. i will still miss him, however.

Ferrari2007 schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the main problem is that the car is
> essentially a shitbox. Secondly neither Schuey or
> Rosberg compare to Lewis, Vettel or Alonso in
> terms of overall quality, and that is really
> showing. You can count on Rosberg to get you the
> result a car deserves, and that's about it.

i get your point mate. But look on it this way. If you say rosberg delivers what the car is capable of i guess that finishing 30 seconds (UK) and 20 sec. ahead (Germany) is actually quite an achievement then.

>Schuey
> has been awfully unlucky this season, but still we
> have only really seen 2 real flashes of the guy we
> all remember, and they were last year in Canada
> and Spa.

it depends on the point of view again. i would add monaco 2012 (both qualy and race), the two qualy session in UK and Germany 2012 and a few others. he is still not TOP CLASS ineach race, tough. that's for sure.


>Just imagine where Alonso would be with
> that car?

now this is a topic i wanted to discuss a long time ago. of course alonso is a magic driver, no doubt about that. For me, he is the most complete driver on the grid today. He combines Hamilton's speed and the ability to drive around problems, together with the mature and consistent driving style that Webber and Button have.

However, everyone keeps saying how fast alonso is and how he is over delivering with that car. Well, the ferrari may have been a complete garbage car in qualifyings, come the first part of 2012, but since Spain, i honestly believe that ferrari have gotten their act together and have never been worse than the 3-rd fastest team on a race weekend. Even Hamilton admitted that the Mclaren team are 2 races behind the speed of development of red bull and FERRARI.

If one throws a look at alonsos result's from the first four races, he finished like this: AUS : 5-th
MAL : 1-st
CHINA: 9-th
BAHRAIN: 7-th.

So, basically, i dont see any spectacular results of alonso in nomral conditions when he drove the 5-th fastest car on the grid. 18 points from 3 dry races is pretty much a lacklustre achievement. Indeed, he was the class of the field in Malaysia, but we have examples of other drivers recently who shine when it is wet. nobody says they over deliver then, right ?


Cheers guys, and again, I just put things the way i see them and dont want to start any big arguments. I rather prefer a constructive discussion with you guys, simply, because many of you have very good understanding of the sport and i really like to discuss different topics with you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 06:58PM by mitadumapaga.

on another note:

very good article aboout mercedes's problems, explained pretty nice from a man who understands this stuff.


[www.bbc.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 07:06PM by mitadumapaga.

mitadumapaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> on another note:
>
> very good article aboout mercedes's problems,
> explained pretty nice from a man who understands
> this stuff.
>
>
> [www.bbc.co.uk]


Very good article. When I saw Schumi on the Podium in Valencia, Tear in the eye moment, however, the Merc just seems to be going backwards in the race... Didn't bother watching the Hungarian GP what with the Olympic Football and Schumi's retirement. I hope Mercedes can solve this issue, really don't know how Schumi and Nico are coping with this car...

mitadumapaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and you cant exactly say he's lost his mojo. he
> did superb to be in 3-rd, both in UK and Germany,
> then fought very clean and kept massa e.g., as
> long as possible behind him.
>
> hmm. maybe he now realizes how pathetic his team
> actually is and is slowly beggining to lose faith
> in it. it is really a shame that with the likes
> of: aldo costa, geoff willis, ross brawn, norbert
> haug, bob bell and 2 (in my opinion) great drivers
> theteam is such a shambles. Rosberg even admitted
> he doesn't know what the key issue is with their
> car. Fine, the McLarens struggled both, in
> valencia and UK, and then stunned everyone with
> their pace in hungary and hockenheim (dry).
> Therefore i am inclined to give mercedes a chance
> to deliver at spa and monza, but if they dont
> score at least 2 podium on those occasions, then
> they should really re-consider if they are in the
> right sport, and mainly if they have the right
> people. Everyone is immediately pointing the
> finger at the drivers - schumacher and nico, but i
> think it is the people behind them, who actually
> fail to deliver. those people being the above
> mentioned designers, technicians and strategists.

I may be wrong about this but I think Aldo Costa, Geoff Willis and Bob Bell are not in a position to really effect the 2012 car. The impact would more be felt in the 2013 car onwards?

I really have no idea why people are so shocked that the team is not doing that great.

Lets be honest, they got lucky and built a really good car once or twice in god knows how many years they have been in F1.

Even by the end of the year Brawn had the 4th best car on the track and since then they have never got back to real winning ways.

Bar then Honda and now as Merc they have always had tyre problems.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really have no idea why people are so shocked
> that the team is not doing that great.
>


because ferrari were a shambles as well in 96. Sinc brawn schumacher (byrne todt etc.) put them back on their feet, everyone expects that schumacher brawn can still make the difference. Also, ferrari got better when they started acquiring other staff members (byrhne, brawn etc.). that's exactly what merc. did at the end of 2011. Mainly, that's why peopl' expect a difference.