[center][b]Next race:[/b] Hungarian Grand Prix - July 27-29, 2012 Hungaroring Mogyoród, Hungary [img]http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/2008/hungary/PublishingImages/circuit_map_hun.jpg[/img] [b]Circuit type:[/b] Race [b]Circuit Length:[/b] 4.381 km [b]Circuit Turns:[/b] 14 [b]Circuit Direction:[/b] Clockwise [b]Capacity:[/b] 120,000 [b]Established:[/b] 1986 [b]First race:[/b] August 10, 1986 [b]Winner:[/b] Nelson Piquet (BRA) [b]Last race:[/b] July 31, 2011 [b]Winner:[/b] Jenson Button (GBR) [b]Onboard lap with Felipe Massa 2011:[/b] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQrqKICEl1s [center]https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010307#msg-1010307Wed, 12 Aug 2026 07:38:50 +0200 Phorum 5.3-dev https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011792#msg-1011792 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011792#msg-1011792


]]> gav F1Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:39:58 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011450#msg-1011450 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011450#msg-1011450
I do have a model of his Minardi from 1989 though.]]> marcl F1Wed, 08 Aug 2012 15:11:49 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011339#msg-1011339 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011339#msg-1011339
I've watched Grand Prix live since 1989

Indeed I've breathed F1 from then until the late 90s

As a young teen I watched and rewatched the Mansell era countless times on various video releases and read all the books.

I've watched every 80's GP to the current GP either live or in highlights over the past few years

...And I'd never even heard of Luis Perez-Sala until he joined HRT, and certainly didn't know he was an F1 driver for two full seasons. Christ, he must have been as exciting a driver as Heidfeld... though presumably without the ability.]]> gav F1Mon, 06 Aug 2012 23:37:23 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011293#msg-1011293 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011293#msg-1011293[www.f1sa.com]

An interesting nod to Ma Qing Hua possibly getting an F1 drive at some point as well. Dani Clos is rumoured to take over Karthikeyan's HRT after the Indian GP as well.]]> Incident 2k9 F1Mon, 06 Aug 2012 20:21:25 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011257#msg-1011257 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011257#msg-1011257-------------------------------------------------------
> I think if he had deputised for Massa, then he'd
> not be driving now. He'd have been in the position
> of Badoer and Fisichella, qualifying last on the
> grid, and regardless of what we now know of how
> hard that car was to jump into, he wouldn't have
> accepted that he was last while Kimi was winning
> at Spa.
>
> And he really wouldn't have done any better than
> Fisichella - Fisichella had driven 2009 F1 cars,
> while for 2010 Schumacher had a winter of testing
> old F1 cars and GP2 cars, and arguably he still
> wasn't at the level he now is when the 2010 season
> started.


Gav it's very possible that this is true, also I guess, when Massa recovered eventually and shumi had not come up to speed with the ferrari he would have definitely been relegated to the position of stand in, which he would never of accepted. So I guess in retrospect the subject of returning to Ferrari out of retirement would be null and void.
Shame though, would have liked to see his come-back better orchestrated if nothing more than to prove that it is possible to do something like that even with the age and time difference against you. Would have definitely been something to behold.]]> Isaint F1Mon, 06 Aug 2012 10:19:14 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011252#msg-1011252 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011252#msg-1011252
And he really wouldn't have done any better than Fisichella - Fisichella had driven 2009 F1 cars, while for 2010 Schumacher had a winter of testing old F1 cars and GP2 cars, and arguably he still wasn't at the level he now is when the 2010 season started.]]> gav F1Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:12:19 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011246#msg-1011246 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011246#msg-1011246The only mistake that I can see, was his choice of team. The super irony of it all is that had it not been for his neck injury, earlier on before he came out of retirement fully, he would probably be driving for Ferrari, since it was they who asked him to stand in for the injured Massa. Sad thing is that the choice to return with Mercedes, was probably based on the fact that Ross Brawn was in charge and also the novelty of racing for a German Marque, may have seemed quite attractive at the time.
But as we all know one man does not an F1 team make and as stated before without the backing of the dream team, Ross Brawn seems little more than mediocre at best.
As for Mercedes being a Marque .....? The only 'Mark' I can see is this enormous stain of under achievement that Mercedes will be left to clean up throughout the future seasons, providing their share
holders don't pull the plug sooner rather than later.
Retirement or not I don't think that Schumacher will be remembered for any failure on his part, more so the team that failed him in a very promising come-back. That will be what most people recall and Schumacher will still have his 7 W.D.C's and I just can't see anyone equaling that anytime soon ........ so, either way he still comes out a winner, his record still intact.]]> Isaint F1Mon, 06 Aug 2012 02:16:24 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011244#msg-1011244 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011244#msg-1011244
For me the guys who are the class of the field shine when the car has capability to bring in some results. And quite honestly, the ferrari always has been this kind of a car this season. even in the early rounds it was obvious that they could make their tyres last super long and make 1 to 2 stops per race less.]]> mitadumapaga F1Mon, 06 Aug 2012 01:07:34 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011241#msg-1011241 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011241#msg-1011241 Slash F1Mon, 06 Aug 2012 00:53:38 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011183#msg-1011183 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011183#msg-1011183Very true and I do believe and have done, for some time that this is the real bones behind the problems surrounding that team. However I do beg to differ on the belief that Schumacher no longer has it. The problem is as you say, with the team plain and simple.
Pretty hard to draw a conclusion on a drivers performance that has been forced to retire more times than he's finished after eleven races this season.
He's also kept his younger team mate pretty honest when he has had a reliable car this season too.
I find his comeback no different to the younger and more raved about Kimi Raikkenon (who has also had his fair share of problems with getting used to the car and being out performed by his younger team mate ) except for two things. Kimi is in a better team. No such problems with multiple retirements there.
And he also has a much better car ....... that's all it is.
Lets face it, even Alonso, who I think could put an H.R.T on the podium right now. Would find it very hard to stay focused driving for a team such as Mercedes, it has to be soul destroying, even for the Iron clad emotions of Michael Schumacher.]]> Isaint F1Sun, 05 Aug 2012 03:26:24 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011149#msg-1011149 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011149#msg-1011149
Brawn gets the credit but he never designed the winning cars.]]> marcl F1Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:20:06 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011124#msg-1011124 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011124#msg-1011124-------------------------------------------------------
> marcl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really have no idea why people are so shocked
> > that the team is not doing that great.
> >
>
>
> because ferrari were a shambles as well in 96.
> Sinc brawn schumacher (byrne todt etc.) put them
> back on their feet, everyone expects that
> schumacher brawn can still make the difference.
> Also, ferrari got better when they started
> acquiring other staff members (byrhne, brawn
> etc.). that's exactly what merc. did at the end of
> 2011. :) Mainly, that's why peopl' expect a
> difference.


Ferrari actually improved once they'd stolen all of Benetton's staff. They signed some of the best people in the paddock to their team. No wonder they improved. Schumacher was in a different league to Berger or Alesi too. The difference is that Mercedes have signed guys like Geoff Willis and Aldo Costa who had actually been released from their former roles. As Marcl has stated too, that team has built only 3 quick cars in the last 10 years. Finally all truth be told, Schumacher just doesn't really have it anymore.]]> Ferrari2007 F1Fri, 03 Aug 2012 19:32:59 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011121#msg-1011121 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011121#msg-1011121
Did Brawn really do a great job? The truth about them goldern years has sort of been leaked out now. Ms had tyres made just for him, had engines just for him, had the best of everything. Is that really the best way to run a team? They cannot do all the testing now and have tyres just made for them! So no I still dont expect them to produce a car able to beat the rest over a year. MS never raced his team mate and now hes having to.

The team are just not there, they never were and they never will be. Give it a few years and the team will be sold yet again.

F1 is just so different now.]]> marcl F1Fri, 03 Aug 2012 18:25:38 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011120#msg-1011120 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011120#msg-1011120-------------------------------------------------------
> I really have no idea why people are so shocked
> that the team is not doing that great.
>


because ferrari were a shambles as well in 96. Sinc brawn schumacher (byrne todt etc.) put them back on their feet, everyone expects that schumacher brawn can still make the difference. Also, ferrari got better when they started acquiring other staff members (byrhne, brawn etc.). that's exactly what merc. did at the end of 2011. :) Mainly, that's why peopl' expect a difference.]]> mitadumapaga F1Fri, 03 Aug 2012 17:38:45 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011115#msg-1011115 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011115#msg-1011115
Lets be honest, they got lucky and built a really good car once or twice in god knows how many years they have been in F1.

Even by the end of the year Brawn had the 4th best car on the track and since then they have never got back to real winning ways.

Bar then Honda and now as Merc they have always had tyre problems.]]> marcl F1Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:55:52 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011005#msg-1011005 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1011005#msg-1011005-------------------------------------------------------
> and you cant exactly say he's lost his mojo. he
> did superb to be in 3-rd, both in UK and Germany,
> then fought very clean and kept massa e.g., as
> long as possible behind him.
>
> hmm. maybe he now realizes how pathetic his team
> actually is and is slowly beggining to lose faith
> in it. it is really a shame that with the likes
> of: aldo costa, geoff willis, ross brawn, norbert
> haug, bob bell and 2 (in my opinion) great drivers
> theteam is such a shambles. Rosberg even admitted
> he doesn't know what the key issue is with their
> car. Fine, the McLarens struggled both, in
> valencia and UK, and then stunned everyone with
> their pace in hungary and hockenheim (dry).
> Therefore i am inclined to give mercedes a chance
> to deliver at spa and monza, but if they dont
> score at least 2 podium on those occasions, then
> they should really re-consider if they are in the
> right sport, and mainly if they have the right
> people. Everyone is immediately pointing the
> finger at the drivers - schumacher and nico, but i
> think it is the people behind them, who actually
> fail to deliver. those people being the above
> mentioned designers, technicians and strategists.

I may be wrong about this but I think Aldo Costa, Geoff Willis and Bob Bell are not in a position to really effect the 2012 car. The impact would more be felt in the 2013 car onwards?]]> davidm F1Thu, 02 Aug 2012 10:35:01 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010982#msg-1010982 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010982#msg-1010982-------------------------------------------------------
> on another note:
>
> very good article aboout mercedes's problems,
> explained pretty nice from a man who understands
> this stuff.
>
>
> [www.bbc.co.uk]


Very good article. When I saw Schumi on the Podium in Valencia, Tear in the eye moment, however, the Merc just seems to be going backwards in the race... Didn't bother watching the Hungarian GP what with the Olympic Football and Schumi's retirement. I hope Mercedes can solve this issue, really don't know how Schumi and Nico are coping with this car...]]> elpasho2005f1 F1Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:54:20 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010967#msg-1010967 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010967#msg-1010967
very good article aboout mercedes's problems, explained pretty nice from a man who understands this stuff.


[www.bbc.co.uk]]]> mitadumapaga F1Wed, 01 Aug 2012 19:06:06 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010965#msg-1010965 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010965#msg-1010965-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the main problem is that the car is
> essentially a shitbox. Secondly neither Schuey or
> Rosberg compare to Lewis, Vettel or Alonso in
> terms of overall quality, and that is really
> showing. You can count on Rosberg to get you the
> result a car deserves, and that's about it.

i get your point mate. But look on it this way. If you say rosberg delivers what the car is capable of i guess that finishing 30 seconds (UK) and 20 sec. ahead (Germany) is actually quite an achievement then.

>Schuey
> has been awfully unlucky this season, but still we
> have only really seen 2 real flashes of the guy we
> all remember, and they were last year in Canada
> and Spa.

it depends on the point of view again. i would add monaco 2012 (both qualy and race), the two qualy session in UK and Germany 2012 and a few others. he is still not TOP CLASS ineach race, tough. that's for sure.


>Just imagine where Alonso would be with
> that car?

now this is a topic i wanted to discuss a long time ago. of course alonso is a magic driver, no doubt about that. For me, he is the most complete driver on the grid today. He combines Hamilton's speed and the ability to drive around problems, together with the mature and consistent driving style that Webber and Button have.

However, everyone keeps saying how fast alonso is and how he is over delivering with that car. Well, the ferrari may have been a complete garbage car in qualifyings, come the first part of 2012, but since Spain, i honestly believe that ferrari have gotten their act together and have never been worse than the 3-rd fastest team on a race weekend. Even Hamilton admitted that the Mclaren team are 2 races behind the speed of development of red bull and FERRARI.

If one throws a look at alonsos result's from the first four races, he finished like this: AUS : 5-th
MAL : 1-st
CHINA: 9-th
BAHRAIN: 7-th.

So, basically, i dont see any spectacular results of alonso in nomral conditions when he drove the 5-th fastest car on the grid. 18 points from 3 dry races is pretty much a lacklustre achievement. Indeed, he was the class of the field in Malaysia, but we have examples of other drivers recently who shine when it is wet. nobody says they over deliver then, right ?


Cheers guys, and again, I just put things the way i see them and dont want to start any big arguments. I rather prefer a constructive discussion with you guys, simply, because many of you have very good understanding of the sport and i really like to discuss different topics with you.]]> mitadumapaga F1Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:51:49 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010964#msg-1010964 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010964#msg-1010964-------------------------------------------------------
> It's better than Fisichella, who actually parked
> on the wrong side of the grid in Sepang once. He
> managed to cock up his starting position there
> twice.

haha. good one. ironically, though, Sepang was the scene of his last ever grand prix victory. i guess fisichella just wasn't that good. he had the car 2 seasons in a row (2005, 2006) and still managed to only score two wins in over 35 races. i will still miss him, however.]]> mitadumapaga F1Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:29:07 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010949#msg-1010949 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010949#msg-1010949
Compounding Mercedes' problems, their 'magical super duper' DRS has been banned for 2013.

[www.autosport.com]

I'm just interested to see how many ex-technical directors they decide to sign over the winter months now.

Edit: Gav, wasn't that 2001.]]> Ferrari2007 F1Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:41:07 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010948#msg-1010948 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010948#msg-1010948 gav F1Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:36:08 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010947#msg-1010947 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010947#msg-1010947
hmm. maybe he now realizes how pathetic his team actually is and is slowly beggining to lose faith in it. it is really a shame that with the likes of: aldo costa, geoff willis, ross brawn, norbert haug, bob bell and 2 (in my opinion) great drivers theteam is such a shambles. Rosberg even admitted he doesn't know what the key issue is with their car. Fine, the McLarens struggled both, in valencia and UK, and then stunned everyone with their pace in hungary and hockenheim (dry). Therefore i am inclined to give mercedes a chance to deliver at spa and monza, but if they dont score at least 2 podium on those occasions, then they should really re-consider if they are in the right sport, and mainly if they have the right people. Everyone is immediately pointing the finger at the drivers - schumacher and nico, but i think it is the people behind them, who actually fail to deliver. those people being the above mentioned designers, technicians and strategists.]]> mitadumapaga F1Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:11:07 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010946#msg-1010946 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010946#msg-1010946 mitadumapaga F1Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:04:13 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010942#msg-1010942 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010942#msg-1010942 marcl F1Wed, 01 Aug 2012 13:16:42 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010916#msg-1010916 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010916#msg-1010916
Button was slow, but was not helped by some awful strategic calls. Mclaren AND RedBull ruined both Button's AND Webber's and Vettel's races. Majorly. Majorly.

It was obvious to I that for a 3 stopper to work you need to either be a) LEADING or b) able to lead via overtaking. For Button overtaking was a problem as it was for... everyone. For Webber, his issue was that he was so far down.

Button lost 4th place IMO and Webber lost possibly 5th to wherever he did finish!

It was amazingly outrageously stupid.

Before the race we knew the tyres would last a fair chunk. And we knew from the first few laps that overtaking even with DRS was still very, very hard. I was simply amazed at how dumb Mclaren were, THEN RedBull. Surely once Button came out behind Alonso and could not pass, as could not Kimi earlier too. RedBull would have thought, maybe the same will occur with Webber? But no. They did not.

F1 teams have some of the most clever people around but I do not often see that many intelligent people make such stupid mistakes. Unless of course your involved in finance and see it everyday?

Big, HUGE (N) for Mclaren and RedBull on Sunday. Huge, massive kudos to Kimi. Man of the race IMO. Lewis did good but Kimi was awesome.]]> chet F1Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:53:00 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010915#msg-1010915 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010915#msg-1010915-------------------------------------------------------
> race was very good. and this comes from a MS fan,
> so basically i had no one to root for.
>
> murray said it well once, there is no such a think
> like a boring f1 race. there are just people who
> aren't such fans to get thrilled and interested
> from things other than passing. I personally
> enjoyed the race really. and btw, mr Raikkonen,
> Grosjean, Webber and Button, should take a look at
> some of mr. Prost's races (e.g., mexico 1990,
> hungary 1988, estoril 1990 and many others) to
> actually understand how to pass a car, when being
> in the dirty air. i honestly believe that
> overtaking was possible. Webber's car awas appr. .5
> - .08 of a second faster than the williams on the
> SAME tyre compound. When he pitted at the end and
> had a fresh rubber from the softs he would have
> been about 2.0 - 2,5 sec. a lap faster. Now, being
> that much faster and havinng DRS and not being
> able to pass a car, which wasnt particulary fast
> on the straights (like the FI or the Macca) is
> just unexusable.

The trouble is that with the extreme tyres we have now means that off line is extremely filthy, and in a lot of the time unless you can drs and get back infront for the braking zone then youre just going to slide into the corner.]]> matt3454 F1Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:45:58 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010909#msg-1010909 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010909#msg-1010909
The Maldonaldo penalty may have had something to do reputation... but at the very least he should have been told to give Di Resta the position back because he effectively overtook by pushing him off the track. He needs to learn what is acceptable race craft.

We all love close wheel to wheel racing... But Maldonaldo doesn't do it with any finesse. Can you imagine had it been him that Webber overtook at Eau Rouge last year instead of Alonso? They'd still be pulling shards of carbon fibre out of the trees.]]> J i m F1Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:52:03 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010907#msg-1010907 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010907#msg-1010907Alonso pulled a move on Perez, well executed ouside the DRS Zone, same as Maldonado on DiResta and that was a it. BTW anyone else thinks the Penalty on Maldonado was based more on his reputation than the actual incident?

but what worries me is Kimi, we know he's a great racer and all but where is the Kimi from 2005, the on that would fly past you, in Bahrain he would've got Vettel in that one chance no doubt, but it seems he's still missing something. apparently is still that steering issue which is probably not giving him 100% confidence. i hope that's what it is
yes, he has done some moves this year but let's face it, Overtaking has become so easy that drivers are probably getting spoiled on risking on hard moves, or getting closer and closer to pull the move, and so are we?



]]> Slash F1Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:29:47 +0200 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010886#msg-1010886 https://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,1010307,1010886#msg-1010886 mitadumapaga F1Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:05:46 +0200