2012 Hungarian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

When you read what Alesi and Berger say about Ferrari its very different to what others say. The Ferrari in 1995 was not a bad car at all the only problem was the engine they kept blowing up. Ferrari were already on their way back in 1996.

Did Brawn really do a great job? The truth about them goldern years has sort of been leaked out now. Ms had tyres made just for him, had engines just for him, had the best of everything. Is that really the best way to run a team? They cannot do all the testing now and have tyres just made for them! So no I still dont expect them to produce a car able to beat the rest over a year. MS never raced his team mate and now hes having to.

The team are just not there, they never were and they never will be. Give it a few years and the team will be sold yet again.

F1 is just so different now.

mitadumapaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> marcl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really have no idea why people are so shocked
> > that the team is not doing that great.
> >
>
>
> because ferrari were a shambles as well in 96.
> Sinc brawn schumacher (byrne todt etc.) put them
> back on their feet, everyone expects that
> schumacher brawn can still make the difference.
> Also, ferrari got better when they started
> acquiring other staff members (byrhne, brawn
> etc.). that's exactly what merc. did at the end of
> 2011. Mainly, that's why peopl' expect a
> difference.


Ferrari actually improved once they'd stolen all of Benetton's staff. They signed some of the best people in the paddock to their team. No wonder they improved. Schumacher was in a different league to Berger or Alesi too. The difference is that Mercedes have signed guys like Geoff Willis and Aldo Costa who had actually been released from their former roles. As Marcl has stated too, that team has built only 3 quick cars in the last 10 years. Finally all truth be told, Schumacher just doesn't really have it anymore.

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2012 07:34PM by Ferrari2007.

The key factor missing in all the people Merc have signed is rory byrne and that was the main designer. To this day I dont think he got the credit he deserved.

Brawn gets the credit but he never designed the winning cars.

Some very good points made here concerning the infrastructure of the Mercedes team compared to Ferrari in it's 'Hay-day'.
Very true and I do believe and have done, for some time that this is the real bones behind the problems surrounding that team. However I do beg to differ on the belief that Schumacher no longer has it. The problem is as you say, with the team plain and simple.
Pretty hard to draw a conclusion on a drivers performance that has been forced to retire more times than he's finished after eleven races this season.
He's also kept his younger team mate pretty honest when he has had a reliable car this season too.
I find his comeback no different to the younger and more raved about Kimi Raikkenon (who has also had his fair share of problems with getting used to the car and being out performed by his younger team mate ) except for two things. Kimi is in a better team. No such problems with multiple retirements there.
And he also has a much better car ....... that's all it is.
Lets face it, even Alonso, who I think could put an H.R.T on the podium right now. Would find it very hard to stay focused driving for a team such as Mercedes, it has to be soul destroying, even for the Iron clad emotions of Michael Schumacher.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2012 02:48PM by Isaint.

edit: TOTALLY WRONG THREAD, LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2012 01:48AM by Slash.

i agree with Isaint about the point he made about the speed of schumacher. I really do not get it. How do people come to the fact that he has lost it ?? Because he's not winning. Ok, let's see this example: ALonso is a magic driver, right ? Well, the guy only scored 1 podium in 2009 and was nowhere near scorin another one. His car was probably the 6-th or 5-th best (after ferrari, macca, rbr, brawn and probably williams). That very same team improved a lot since their staff was changed for 2010... either it's that or petrov (in 2011) is as good driver as alonso, since he also managed 1 podium in 2011.

For me the guys who are the class of the field shine when the car has capability to bring in some results. And quite honestly, the ferrari always has been this kind of a car this season. even in the early rounds it was obvious that they could make their tyres last super long and make 1 to 2 stops per race less.

Yes, it's quite an extraordinary thing really. There has been so much press about how Shumacher should never have come out of retirement, it was a mistake.
The only mistake that I can see, was his choice of team. The super irony of it all is that had it not been for his neck injury, earlier on before he came out of retirement fully, he would probably be driving for Ferrari, since it was they who asked him to stand in for the injured Massa. Sad thing is that the choice to return with Mercedes, was probably based on the fact that Ross Brawn was in charge and also the novelty of racing for a German Marque, may have seemed quite attractive at the time.
But as we all know one man does not an F1 team make and as stated before without the backing of the dream team, Ross Brawn seems little more than mediocre at best.
As for Mercedes being a Marque .....? The only 'Mark' I can see is this enormous stain of under achievement that Mercedes will be left to clean up throughout the future seasons, providing their share
holders don't pull the plug sooner rather than later.
Retirement or not I don't think that Schumacher will be remembered for any failure on his part, more so the team that failed him in a very promising come-back. That will be what most people recall and Schumacher will still have his 7 W.D.C's and I just can't see anyone equaling that anytime soon ........ so, either way he still comes out a winner, his record still intact.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2012 02:28AM by Isaint.

I think if he had deputised for Massa, then he'd not be driving now. He'd have been in the position of Badoer and Fisichella, qualifying last on the grid, and regardless of what we now know of how hard that car was to jump into, he wouldn't have accepted that he was last while Kimi was winning at Spa.

And he really wouldn't have done any better than Fisichella - Fisichella had driven 2009 F1 cars, while for 2010 Schumacher had a winter of testing old F1 cars and GP2 cars, and arguably he still wasn't at the level he now is when the 2010 season started.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think if he had deputised for Massa, then he'd
> not be driving now. He'd have been in the position
> of Badoer and Fisichella, qualifying last on the
> grid, and regardless of what we now know of how
> hard that car was to jump into, he wouldn't have
> accepted that he was last while Kimi was winning
> at Spa.
>
> And he really wouldn't have done any better than
> Fisichella - Fisichella had driven 2009 F1 cars,
> while for 2010 Schumacher had a winter of testing
> old F1 cars and GP2 cars, and arguably he still
> wasn't at the level he now is when the 2010 season
> started.


Gav it's very possible that this is true, also I guess, when Massa recovered eventually and shumi had not come up to speed with the ferrari he would have definitely been relegated to the position of stand in, which he would never of accepted. So I guess in retrospect the subject of returning to Ferrari out of retirement would be null and void.
Shame though, would have liked to see his come-back better orchestrated if nothing more than to prove that it is possible to do something like that even with the age and time difference against you. Would have definitely been something to behold.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2012 10:58AM by Isaint.

You know how HRT were previously useless? Here's why:
[www.f1sa.com]

An interesting nod to Ma Qing Hua possibly getting an F1 drive at some point as well. Dani Clos is rumoured to take over Karthikeyan's HRT after the Indian GP as well.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Hang on...

I've watched Grand Prix live since 1989

Indeed I've breathed F1 from then until the late 90s

As a young teen I watched and rewatched the Mansell era countless times on various video releases and read all the books.

I've watched every 80's GP to the current GP either live or in highlights over the past few years

...And I'd never even heard of Luis Perez-Sala until he joined HRT, and certainly didn't know he was an F1 driver for two full seasons. Christ, he must have been as exciting a driver as Heidfeld... though presumably without the ability.

^I remember him getting a point at Silverstone 1989 and spinning out in Spain again in 1989 but thats about it lol.

I do have a model of his Minardi from 1989 though.

Just randomly stumbled upon this on Youtube, and I forgot how funny it was.