Williams FW 26B preview

Wow,
I really should read the posts more, I completely missed this one!!!!

I don't want to disagree with other members whom I respect, but DaveEllis, I think your closing comment was unfounded.

Here are two reasons to have faith in the community :

1. My Williams FW26B project (first proper attempt at modelling).

I approached Wai and Bojan re possibly adding some bits to there FW26A and releasing it, then when they updated theirs I would remove it. They have both been more than helpful, with Wai spending a large amount of time on MSN the other weekend helping me learn normals (still not sure - but hey!).

I have posted screenshots to this very forum, but at no time have I said it was my work, I have always credited Wai and Bojan for there work. They still continue to help me and I am overwhelmed by this support as I had assumed (because of the ramblings on this forum) that carmakers were secretive and territorial! They are not - they just want to be consulted!!

2. My Arrows A18 project (first proper attempt at a car).

I originally started fiddling around with the original 2001 Williams to create a rough arrows shape (as per advise from Wai). However upon posting to the forum the feedback was that the shape wasn't altogether correct, so I started from scratch (completely from scratch). And posted shots as I went along and again I have had so much support on my email and in private messages from car makers and non-car makers, even Oggo (who's fantastic Champ Car sets are always on my pc) has offered to spend time showing me how to do normals and other fine-tuning, just to help get more people modelling.

I posted this week for some help finding logos for the Arrows and have been overwhelmed by help, some posters even created the logos for me, it was fantastic.

Now really, does this sound as though the community is going downhill? Or does it sound like people are just laying credit, where credit is due?

Had the Argentinian guy been truthfull and said we are creating the FW26B on Wai's original shape I fully believe if it had been up to scratch Wai would have supported them and had no problems, as he did with me.

Having starting learning how to create cars, I can also understand why people need to be credited for there work. Wai said it would take approximately a month to create a car, a month of un-paid work! Why wouldn't he want someone to credit him after that amount of dedication???

Come on, don't cloud the issue and remember why we are here, to further the game and to improve our skills. My mum always told me honesty is the best policy and I still believe that is true.

Sorry for the rant DaveEllis, but it's unfair to knock dedicated, hard-working simmers, who just want to move forwards.

Steve <still smiling>

OK, due to the bad commentaries I will tell Marosci to start modeling from the original GP4 cars our next works (or is it leeching again?...).
It´s a pitty how things have been driven... I must apologize for myself to anyone if due to my poor english I said it was built from scratch... I was referring at my work with the textures. The only thing I can blame to Marosci is that he doesn´t emailed the first author because he even doesn´t know properly who was... We only know it was a 2003 car season...
Anyway, the suspensions, brakes and some more stuff aren´t a very important thing in game... I´m not everytime saying.. "Hmmm... how lovely this suspension looks"... We look the car in general, and every part of the car has been very much modified by him...
Also, so many people is mad with him because of this facts... but he never tell here or in other sites that the car was built from scratch... It´s a thing that everybody suppose... even me, I´m the first in apoligize about this...

Also I continue thinking about the car is not leeched... it has been very much modified... But if you can´t sleep with this idea, can you tell me what parts must he remake to be a 100% legal shape "in your opinion"?
We are not leechers, stealers or bad people... Everyone in the GP4Argentina comunity can tell you I´m the first agains leechers like "doc_mamis" and """"his"""" Jordans. I´m always supporting in the forums in GP4Argentina helping the newbies to update his cars.wad manually, not downloading illegals cars.wad´s...
We preffer to make things good, supporting the big authors and not-big authors....
So, what parts should he model again to have everybody happy?

REGARDS

tell me what's the difference bewteen his jordan and your williams?! it's the same thing.. doesn't matter if it's the suspension or not.. what you have done is modified someone elses work.. and so has he.. imho.. it's the same thing..

His Jordan only has got 2 little changes in the textures, only 2 logos different, the rest were all are the same than Duco Lammers and Erik van Leewen, even their logo, and the car was entirely the same as Duco Lammers, and he imports an engine part from another car with the result of a copy paste bad product...
My textures are painted all by me... no credits to tell no-one, I´ve been working on them more than a week... The car is not the car from other as he release it... It´s been modified a lot by him... It´s not a copy-paste bad product... it´s been very much modified... You can compare our work with doc_mamis Jordans... It´s a real insult!

We haven´t speak before in this forum due to we aren´t registered here... I register in this forum yesterday, and my first post was here, in this thread... I´m more comfortable speaking in my mother language... Because of my poor english I said that the car was built from scratch... I don´t want to apologize about this every time I post... I think that with only ONE time apologizing is more than sifficient... Also we are trying to make thinks the best way possible, if he must re-do some parts there is no problem, he tell me there is no problem about this... but please, don´t mark us with the "LEECHER" label because of a missunderstanding, we´re trying to make things the better way.... I think it´s a very important thing to think about... We´re not saying all the time blaming everyone who cross some bad words with us... "au contraire", I´m tired of apologizing and trying to make things good and only having bad words in reward

Please understand us, it´s our first serious jobs, we´re not silly childs that are trying to impress everyone... We´re only trying to make something good for not only our comunity, I think the good works must be enjoyed by everyone.
I think my work with the textures has been pretty good, and Marosci is a good modeler, he really likes to model, and he and I preffer to make things the good way or not make them... I´m a bit tired of apoligizing, re-apologizing again...
It´s simple... Which parts must he redo, and please no comments about the images... I preffer to send Wai the shape and he tells us which parts to re-do...

BEST REGARDS FROM SPAIN

ralphi Wrote:
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> tell me what's the difference bewteen his jordan
> and your williams?! it's the same thing.. doesn't
> matter if it's the suspension or not.. what you
> have done is modified someone elses work.. and so
> has he.. imho.. it's the same thing..
>
>
>
>
> Marko 'Ralphi' Tomasek
>
> My GP4 screenshot gallery..
>
>

Well, every carshaper modified someone elses work...

dolinseks Wrote:
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>
> Well, every carshaper modified someone elses
> work...
>

no, not true at all. all of the cars I've made have been started from scratch, and the few parts I have borrowed are used with full permission (notably being diego's driver model with 3d belts in the 95 jordan and 91 ferraris).

I assume you're suggesting that because they're going into gp4 they must be based on the original gp4 cars which simply is not true.

Tahlendorf Wrote:
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>So, what parts should he model again to have everybody happy?

he should either make everything himself, or at the very least credit the parts he's borrowed - as has been said everybody in this community really is here to help one another and writing an email really isn't very difficult at all... it's just when something comes along which raises suspicions people do get defensive because it does take a lot of time to create these models. it seems you didn't know about the marosci shape though, so it isn't your fault - I've seen screenshots which show your textures are original, and they are very good

and Dave, your argument that 'it's based on the same car in reality therefore they look the same' is very weak indeed. as ralphi said you really can tell the differences between different authors' shapes, everybody has their own style... which actually can be seen, believe it or not, without a wireframe. I would've thought that you, as a modeller, would acknowledge that.

Ok, as you said, even me, I don´t know properly well about the shape... Marosci will send me the shape he took at the beginning and I will post the images so you can help me to find the author... But in his car aren´t parts from Wai FW26.... Marosci took a ´03 carshape 100% sure

Thanks for the comment on the textures... Really I appreciate every shine of good efforts to help us. We´re not bad people, Marosci´s a very good person with iniciative that his only error was not to contact the first author... We´re starting, it´s his first serious job (as mine), I believe that much of comments doesn´t understand well our position. I´m the first to be ashamed on how things are going... We only want to expand our works a little bit more of our GP4Argentina community.
As I said, we´re not blaming anybody who crossed words with us... I can affirm that no insults have been launched in my posts, every phrase were focused with respect and good intentions (but it´s a pitty my english is not good as I want...).
At the moment I received the mail with the shape he used I will post images and so you can help us to contact the first work author...

One more time, thanks to anybody who has tried to help us, we appreciate every help you can bring us...

BEST REGARDS, SINCERELY, TAHLENDORF

Tahlendorf Wrote:
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> Ok, as you said, even me, I don´t know properly
> well about the shape... Marosci will send me the
> shape he took at the beginning and I will post the
> images so you can help me to find the author...
> But in his car aren´t parts from Wai FW26....
> Marosci took a ´03 carshape 100% sure


you need to look at that pic again.. it has parts from Wai's 04 car... just look at the bloody wireframe.. how hard can it be..

god damn it.. i can't keep up the argument no more.. i'm to old for this @#$%&..

Hey, please, understand me.. I´m the first to trust Marosci, if he said me he started from a ´03 shape and not from the ´04 FW26 shape from Wai Keen Lam I must believe him... What kind of friend will I be if I don´t trust him at this moments... From all the time I know Marosci he never has lied me... NEVER
The only thing I can do and say is that I´m waiting for the shape he started in, I hope things come clear with all of this...
So, if your so suspicious, I can send you the shape and judge it, I´ve no problem with it.
I admit some parts are really look identical, but if he said me that he started from a ´03 carshape I must believe him...

REGARDS

ralphi, stop attacking Tahlendorf, its not his shape. He is only saying, what Marosci told him.

look i am NOT attacking him... i'm just saying that the parts "barrowed" are 04 parts not 03..

Well, actually we don´t know if some parts are from Wai car... he doesn´t remember well all the process he make, so we´ve decided to change the suspensions and rear wing and model or hard mod the original shape he used, the Williams FW25 from Duco Lammers, I´ve sent an email to him to properly ask permission to use his work as a base and giving credits to him when the car will be released.
Sorry for any inconvenience, and please don´t use the "leechers" label on us, probably Marosci didn´t do the things just right, but our purposes is not to have enemies in other comunities due to some facts... we´re trying to manage all the things the best way possible
Wai, if do you think some more parts are borrowed I posted my mails before... please let me know, because I didn´t understand well som words like twin keel, winglets, turning vanes... My english vocabulary is not so specific with car parts... I can understand some parts but I really don´t know how parts are yo referring, please can someone post some explanation image???

Nothing more, BEST REGARDS FROM SPAIN

Marko, I believe he wanted to say your comments were aggressive, not attacking/
Tahlendorf, I understand your position of trusting your friend, I think everyone in the world would first trust their friend... a mistake has been done, and it can be corrected. Now, I am nowhere near a carshaper, so I speak from what I believe, and I would understand how you guys feel about this work, but I don't think it is at the same level of others' leeching jobs (Marcelo and Doc).

I just forgot my closing paragraph, damn roommate...

I couldn't agree more with Dave here. He has some very good points, and I have actually never seen him taking sides randomly, he always explains very well his point and why he thinks what he thinks.
This community, as someones have already said, is going down, and fast! Dave has said the reasons for that already, so I'm not going to repeat them.


My photo gallery: [viltzu86.deviantart.com]

i agree with dave too, and gui.
these guys arent leechers - they're trying to make cars and they've made the mistake of thinking they could use someone else's base. a quiet email or pm could have sorted this out a bit better than our local gpgames gestapo.

nice to see new talent, and it looks like we'll need it too :|

____
Tony

really guys..

they said they made the car from scratch.. when you can see it's not.. that was the first argument.. that whent on for a few pages...

then after we prove that they'w taken other cars as base.. then they say they only took 03 cars as base.... WHAT?! i thought they said they started from scratch.. not only did the painter say it was from scratch.. but everybody else did..

what's funny tho is.. that they still claim the car is "barrowed" from 03 cars when we clearly can see wai's 04 william.. what the hell.. am i the only one who can see and read?!










Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2004 10:55AM by ralphi.

Well, the only thing I can say is that taking a '03 car WITH permission isn't a crime at all... but they need permission. Oh, and, IMHO, if they have changed everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) I think they don't need permission... it would be the same as if they based it on a gp4 original car... But, if they're using at least one part of the original car, then they need it or they have to change that part. That's only IMHO, of course

Marko, how many times may I repeat that I say "made from scratch" about my work with the textures.... I don´t know the process in the shape... I don´t know anything about carshaping, I´m only a texturer. I don´t know if Marosci import some minor parts or not... He worked too much time with the shape and now he doesn´t remember well all the process he did. I´ve said that the parts everybody noticed are exact as Wai´s car or anybody´s car, are being changed... back to the model he started and re-make as close to reality he can.

I think some of this points were solved, but I can see that not...

REGARDS

i'm not saying anything about you.... i'm saying that e_schumi.. and everybody else said that the shape was made and i quote e_schumi "from zero" which it wasn't made.

i'm sorry if it looked like i was critizizng you.. i wasn't i'm saying your shaper is lieing to you..

e_schummy is not my shaper.... Marosci, me, or GP4Argentina aren´t responsible of some comments of individuals. We told him to calm down and to shuttin up to find a solution. Every comment of anyone must not to be understand it as "TRUE"... And in this case he speak veeeeery baaad english... I think that my english is bad... his english is simply... not-english...
I believe my commentaries are the most accurate to reality from what had happened. Marosci is remaking that parts, so the car will be modified by him 100%. The only thing to fix (after the modifications of the shape) is to wait for Duco Lammers reply to the mail I sent him yesterday.
We want to make things the better way possible, we´re not leechers, only starting people. The comment about the Jordans """""of"""" doc_mamis (from now on the un-named_one...people like him doesn´t deserve any kind of publicity) and our work was really a knife in the chest....

REGARDS