The 2012 Formula One Season
Posted by madotter
kubica2 Wrote:
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> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really think the main thing holding
> Schumacher
> > back now is the car. If Mercedes gave him a car
> > which was even the equivalent of the 2011
> McLaren,
> > I think he'd subconsciously fire right up and
> we'd
> > see a further transformation in him.
>
> yeh, but does he deserve a go in a great car ahead
> of other drivers ? your comment can be applied to
> anyone
Um, no it can't. Clearly you didn't read the final sentence of my post.
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> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really think the main thing holding
> Schumacher
> > back now is the car. If Mercedes gave him a car
> > which was even the equivalent of the 2011
> McLaren,
> > I think he'd subconsciously fire right up and
> we'd
> > see a further transformation in him.
>
> yeh, but does he deserve a go in a great car ahead
> of other drivers ? your comment can be applied to
> anyone
Um, no it can't. Clearly you didn't read the final sentence of my post.
Quite unfair for Sutil, but I Mallya's got enough financial trouble without having to pay out Di Resta or Hulkenberg!
There's certainly going to be some very good drivers on the sidelines in 2012! I suppose Jaime will get the HRT seat, and probably Sutil at Williams. Maybe Senna, Petrov or Buemi are a chance at Caterham if they (rightly) decide to tell Trulli to spend some more time at his vineyards.
X (@ed24f1)
There's certainly going to be some very good drivers on the sidelines in 2012! I suppose Jaime will get the HRT seat, and probably Sutil at Williams. Maybe Senna, Petrov or Buemi are a chance at Caterham if they (rightly) decide to tell Trulli to spend some more time at his vineyards.
X (@ed24f1)
Jaime will get a drive somewhere. Even if RedBull have dropped him in the @#$%& - which would be rather stupid of them after his improvement during 2011 - he'll have no problem ultimately finding a drive with another team soon. He's too good.
At Williams, I feel Rubens will get favoured over Sutil. He's more experienced and better at car development, and Sutil definitely won't be any quicker.
At Williams, I feel Rubens will get favoured over Sutil. He's more experienced and better at car development, and Sutil definitely won't be any quicker.
Schumacher will be respectable enough but chances are that he's not going to be winning races yet nor will Nico. I doubt the car will be a big enough improvement to properly challenge the Red Bull, Mclaren & Ferrari trio so they'll be routinely best of the rest with maybe the ocassional podium on a good day.
The days of Schumacher owning a field are over, he'll still have his good days, he might even have the odd race victory still in him but he'll never dominate again.
The days of Schumacher owning a field are over, he'll still have his good days, he might even have the odd race victory still in him but he'll never dominate again.
Hungary 2005? He came 2nd to Kimi, whilst Alonso had a retirement.
Hungary 1998, now that was an epic.
Hungary 1998, now that was an epic.
kubica2 Wrote:
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> no, i clearly read it and gave my oppionn on the
> matter, geez.
You're not very good at reading then, because my original comment wasn't applicable to any other driver, just Schumacher. And by the way, if you only gave your opinion on things there wouldn't be a problem - as it is, you tend to ram your opinion down our throats and then get abusive towards us if we dare disagree with it, which is an issue.
The final part of your comment is too childish to bother replying to.
Anyway... Yep, agreed with Jim. The reason I want to see him in a top car is because then we'd really see how much of the old Schumacher is still there. Apart from possibly his first ever race in the Jordan, he never had a car as bad as the Mercedes in his main career. Even the Benetton B191 was better.
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> no, i clearly read it and gave my oppionn on the
> matter, geez.
You're not very good at reading then, because my original comment wasn't applicable to any other driver, just Schumacher. And by the way, if you only gave your opinion on things there wouldn't be a problem - as it is, you tend to ram your opinion down our throats and then get abusive towards us if we dare disagree with it, which is an issue.
The final part of your comment is too childish to bother replying to.
Anyway... Yep, agreed with Jim. The reason I want to see him in a top car is because then we'd really see how much of the old Schumacher is still there. Apart from possibly his first ever race in the Jordan, he never had a car as bad as the Mercedes in his main career. Even the Benetton B191 was better.
The Jordan 191 was a very impressive car especially since it was Jordan's first season in f1. It begun having to pre-qualify for every race which it did so with ease. It usually competed for points and was even in the running for victory at Spa (surprise surprise). It's main weakness was it's drivers in all fairness. De Cesaris was wasn't that good even at his peak, Gatchot was a Prat, Zanardi as much as we all love him was a rookie, Moreno was merely competent.
The Benetton B191 was a decent enough car but the team benefitted from about a decade or more f1 experience than Jordan and also had a triple world champion (Nelson Piquet) as it's driver. It should indeed have always been the stronger team on paper but I don't the car was significantly better than the Jordan, although it's Pirelli tyres probably were a fair but inferior to the Goodyears.
The Benetton B191 was a decent enough car but the team benefitted from about a decade or more f1 experience than Jordan and also had a triple world champion (Nelson Piquet) as it's driver. It should indeed have always been the stronger team on paper but I don't the car was significantly better than the Jordan, although it's Pirelli tyres probably were a fair but inferior to the Goodyears.
Agreed on all points there. The reason I'm inclined to see the B191 as better is because of its performance in the opening races of '92 on Goodyears, when it generally was only slower than the Williams.
I doubt he would have comeback at all in those circumstances. Kimi would have probably taken the Mclaren seat and I sense that Ross Brawn is the main factor that lured Schumacher to Mercdes. Otherwise it would have been Ferrari or nothing.
Also shows the difference between eras. When Schumacher made his debut in 1991 most of the established order were in their mid 30s to early 40s. Mansell won his championship in his late 30s, the likes of Prost, Piquet, Patrese etc had been around since the 1970s yet could still turn up the wick when they wanted to. In 97 Berger was the oldest man on the grid, he had 3 races off becausef of illness yet he comeback and won at Hockenheim even though he wasn't fit!
Today... Most of the drivers are in their mid 20s, we've had a procession of "youngest evers" and many drivers are lucky to still be in F1 when they get to 30. When you look past Schumacher and Barrichello... F1's elder statemen are Jarno Trulli and Jenson Button. I still think of Button as a young up n coming whipper snapper, yet he's effectively a grandfather in modern F1 terms.
When you look at it like that, for Schumacher and Barrichello to still be in F1 after 20 years and be competitive is an epic achievement, especially when today decent enough drivers are lucky to get 2 or 3 full seasons.
Today... Most of the drivers are in their mid 20s, we've had a procession of "youngest evers" and many drivers are lucky to still be in F1 when they get to 30. When you look past Schumacher and Barrichello... F1's elder statemen are Jarno Trulli and Jenson Button. I still think of Button as a young up n coming whipper snapper, yet he's effectively a grandfather in modern F1 terms.
When you look at it like that, for Schumacher and Barrichello to still be in F1 after 20 years and be competitive is an epic achievement, especially when today decent enough drivers are lucky to get 2 or 3 full seasons.
I think that's changing back again now though. For a long time(which Berger's retirement probably established actually) there seemed to be a cut-off age for F1 drivers of about 37 years old, which is a ridiculously young age for a sportsman to retire at. Even Schumacher himself seemed to have succumbed to it when he retired at 37 in 2006. It seemed to be the unwritten F1 retirement age. This went against the standard practise from previous eras, when as said already, it was normal for drivers to keep racing into their 40s.
I think it might actually be Schumacher's comeback which has changed this. Now we have de la Rosa making a full-time comeback at 40, and we have Rubens possibly staying on at the age of 39(will soon be 40 if he drives again next year) and even Trulli, who has a drive for next season despite being the age where 10 years ago he would've been seen as too old for F1.
Maybe, just as Schumacher's arrival in F1 first time round revolutionised the drivers' work ethic and approach, so his comeback has reminded team bosses that drivers don't become OAPs once they're past their mid-30s.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 09:08PM by EC83.
I think it might actually be Schumacher's comeback which has changed this. Now we have de la Rosa making a full-time comeback at 40, and we have Rubens possibly staying on at the age of 39(will soon be 40 if he drives again next year) and even Trulli, who has a drive for next season despite being the age where 10 years ago he would've been seen as too old for F1.
Maybe, just as Schumacher's arrival in F1 first time round revolutionised the drivers' work ethic and approach, so his comeback has reminded team bosses that drivers don't become OAPs once they're past their mid-30s.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 09:08PM by EC83.
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