Lotus Renault GP - wtf!?
Posted by danm
danm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lotus (Fernandez outfit) > Name only.
>
> Lotus (Proton to Renault) > Investment from the
> actual road going car company Lotus.
>
> It is basically the Lotus F1 name, by name only,
> versus the actual Lotus car company who make
> Lotuses.
Colin Chapman must be spinning in his grave over this. TF has bought the name back with the tradition of the old Lotus and the blessing of the family name. Lotus Group, who have always been separate from the F1 side since its inception, are now being blindly bought in to make a quick buck, based on sales of new models which currently don't exist, and wont do for a few years. Not to mention the fact the last time new models were bought in Lotus went bankrupt, because it simply is not what Lotus are about.
Incident 2k9 Wrote:
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> It makes no sense to me. Why have Lotus Cars
> decided to get involved now? It would be a bit
> nicer for most fans if Renault either stayed
> Renault, or changed to Proton, and Team Lotus was
> given to Lotus Racing.
Because Danny Bahar, who heads this up, is quite bitter against TF and the current Lotus F1 operation. He wanted to bring Lotus into F1 in a different way to TF, the way they are currently doing it with Renault (very much not the ethos of Lotus). So he objected when the rights were sold for TF to use the name on a multi-year deal. Now they've had an opportunity, they've gone for it, and done their best to force the current Team Lotus out of it by any means necessary.
The thing is TF will probably win the naming rights court case to legally use "Team Lotus". As much as Group Lotus object, they have tried to buy the rights many times from David Hunt for the same reason. I swear they still don't realise they cant actually use the constructor name "Lotus Renault F1" as all the other teams would have to agree to change it from Renault F1, including Team Lotus. Parts of this seem so terribly thought out it does have a bit of an Andrea Moda stance to it.
In essence, this will probably end up destroying the brand, and that is the core of why F1 fans, old and new, are extremely angry at the news of this. Pure greed on such a blind, moronic level.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2010 08:12PM by 97kirkc.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lotus (Fernandez outfit) > Name only.
>
> Lotus (Proton to Renault) > Investment from the
> actual road going car company Lotus.
>
> It is basically the Lotus F1 name, by name only,
> versus the actual Lotus car company who make
> Lotuses.
Colin Chapman must be spinning in his grave over this. TF has bought the name back with the tradition of the old Lotus and the blessing of the family name. Lotus Group, who have always been separate from the F1 side since its inception, are now being blindly bought in to make a quick buck, based on sales of new models which currently don't exist, and wont do for a few years. Not to mention the fact the last time new models were bought in Lotus went bankrupt, because it simply is not what Lotus are about.
Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It makes no sense to me. Why have Lotus Cars
> decided to get involved now? It would be a bit
> nicer for most fans if Renault either stayed
> Renault, or changed to Proton, and Team Lotus was
> given to Lotus Racing.
Because Danny Bahar, who heads this up, is quite bitter against TF and the current Lotus F1 operation. He wanted to bring Lotus into F1 in a different way to TF, the way they are currently doing it with Renault (very much not the ethos of Lotus). So he objected when the rights were sold for TF to use the name on a multi-year deal. Now they've had an opportunity, they've gone for it, and done their best to force the current Team Lotus out of it by any means necessary.
The thing is TF will probably win the naming rights court case to legally use "Team Lotus". As much as Group Lotus object, they have tried to buy the rights many times from David Hunt for the same reason. I swear they still don't realise they cant actually use the constructor name "Lotus Renault F1" as all the other teams would have to agree to change it from Renault F1, including Team Lotus. Parts of this seem so terribly thought out it does have a bit of an Andrea Moda stance to it.
In essence, this will probably end up destroying the brand, and that is the core of why F1 fans, old and new, are extremely angry at the news of this. Pure greed on such a blind, moronic level.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2010 08:12PM by 97kirkc.
gav Wrote:
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> > i think this will end when
>
> 1. Clive Chapman says if he supports Lotus F1
> Racing or Proton.
>
>
> Clive Chapman won't have a say in this. This is a
> purely political situation and he holds no weight.
> He's sold or licensed his rights to the Team Lotus
> name and that's as much influence as he can have.
> In terms of clout, he's a nobody in this.
>
> I don't know why everyone (meaning Malaysia) is
> clamouring to get the black and gold livery.
> That's not lotus. That's just a sponsor. The only
> reason they can be after it is that it's
> associated with Senna and to a lesser extent
> Andretti, Peterson, Fittipaldi, Mansell and de
> Angelis. Pre-sponsorship Lotus had probably the
> best driver of all time, and it is Lotus. As much
> as I like black cars (indeed what got me into F1
> was my dad's large model JPS Lotus), if I were a
> Lotus die-hard, I'd be desperately clamouring to
> use or stick with the green and yellow.
>
> Still, as much I want Tony's Lotus to stick to
> their guns, use a black and gold livery and show a
> large middle finger to Proton, seeing 4 Lotus
> Renaults with almost identical liveries would be
> ridiculous situation and frankly a farce.
Indeed, in fact JPS used to get very annoyed when people referred to them as Lotus cars, as they wanted everyone to called them John Player Specials. I would have thought the FIA will step in regarding the livery issue if that really did go ahead. We could barely tell The Force India and the McLaren apart from a distance in 2007, despite them not being that similar up close, so this would be an obvious nightmare for journo's, commentators and fans.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > i think this will end when
>
> 1. Clive Chapman says if he supports Lotus F1
> Racing or Proton.
>
>
> Clive Chapman won't have a say in this. This is a
> purely political situation and he holds no weight.
> He's sold or licensed his rights to the Team Lotus
> name and that's as much influence as he can have.
> In terms of clout, he's a nobody in this.
>
> I don't know why everyone (meaning Malaysia) is
> clamouring to get the black and gold livery.
> That's not lotus. That's just a sponsor. The only
> reason they can be after it is that it's
> associated with Senna and to a lesser extent
> Andretti, Peterson, Fittipaldi, Mansell and de
> Angelis. Pre-sponsorship Lotus had probably the
> best driver of all time, and it is Lotus. As much
> as I like black cars (indeed what got me into F1
> was my dad's large model JPS Lotus), if I were a
> Lotus die-hard, I'd be desperately clamouring to
> use or stick with the green and yellow.
>
> Still, as much I want Tony's Lotus to stick to
> their guns, use a black and gold livery and show a
> large middle finger to Proton, seeing 4 Lotus
> Renaults with almost identical liveries would be
> ridiculous situation and frankly a farce.
Indeed, in fact JPS used to get very annoyed when people referred to them as Lotus cars, as they wanted everyone to called them John Player Specials. I would have thought the FIA will step in regarding the livery issue if that really did go ahead. We could barely tell The Force India and the McLaren apart from a distance in 2007, despite them not being that similar up close, so this would be an obvious nightmare for journo's, commentators and fans.
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chet Wrote:
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> Dont all the teams have to agree to the name
> change in order for them to get the prize money of
> Renault F1?
Lotus are only a sponsor (like Vodafone or AT&T), so they don't need to change the name.
They probably would have removed Renault from the team name if they could have without losing money.
X (@ed24f1)
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> Dont all the teams have to agree to the name
> change in order for them to get the prize money of
> Renault F1?
Lotus are only a sponsor (like Vodafone or AT&T), so they don't need to change the name.
They probably would have removed Renault from the team name if they could have without losing money.
X (@ed24f1)
why is renault even in the name if renault dont even own 0.1 % of the shares anymore , all sold
so why dont they call it Genii Capital GP or at the very least Lotus Genii not Lotus Renault because of my previous point
car could be Genii-Renault?
the oficial team name could be Lotus Genii Renault (Title Sponsor - Chassis - Engine such as Rothmans Williams Renault)
what wrong with that?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 03:00PM by ipswich2007.
so why dont they call it Genii Capital GP or at the very least Lotus Genii not Lotus Renault because of my previous point
car could be Genii-Renault?
the oficial team name could be Lotus Genii Renault (Title Sponsor - Chassis - Engine such as Rothmans Williams Renault)
what wrong with that?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 03:00PM by ipswich2007.
i wrote that because i thought Renault had sold 100% of their involvement but they still own 25% so its cool :P
so on the FIA graphics then it wil still be a Renault and in the constructors title, theyll still be called renault.. like williams were still called williams even when BMW enforced it being BMW williams.
if thats so then im fine with that , i have no problem with it being a lotus sponsered renault.
cos we will still have renault & lotus racing on the grid in 2011
easily distinguishable
so on the FIA graphics then it wil still be a Renault and in the constructors title, theyll still be called renault.. like williams were still called williams even when BMW enforced it being BMW williams.
if thats so then im fine with that , i have no problem with it being a lotus sponsered renault.
cos we will still have renault & lotus racing on the grid in 2011
easily distinguishable
Renault have 0% ownership of the team now.
They owned 25% during the 2010 season, but sold that to Genii, who then made the deal with Lotus.
Now, Group Lotus and Genii each own 50%
X (@ed24f1)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 05:13PM by SchueyFan.
They owned 25% during the 2010 season, but sold that to Genii, who then made the deal with Lotus.
Now, Group Lotus and Genii each own 50%
X (@ed24f1)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 05:13PM by SchueyFan.
well then so i refer back to my previous message
why is renault even in the name if renault dont even own 0.1 % of the shares anymore , all sold
so why dont they call it Genii Capital GP or at the very least Lotus Genii not Lotus Renault because of my previous point
car could be Genii-Renault?
the oficial team name could be Lotus Genii Renault (Title Sponsor - Chassis - Engine such as Rothmans Williams Renault)
what wrong with that?
why is renault even in the name if renault dont even own 0.1 % of the shares anymore , all sold
so why dont they call it Genii Capital GP or at the very least Lotus Genii not Lotus Renault because of my previous point
car could be Genii-Renault?
the oficial team name could be Lotus Genii Renault (Title Sponsor - Chassis - Engine such as Rothmans Williams Renault)
what wrong with that?
Renaults support apparently will be more than engines. It will be technical support too... I think the reason to keep Renault as the constructor is to avoid the name change (and risk of not getting the prize money).
I just hope this doesnt change anything with the managment.
Boullier was 2nd to Horner for team boss of the year IMO. Renault did a fantastic job this year (amazingly they've only this year solved problems going back to 2007 to do with the wind tunnel).
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
I just hope this doesnt change anything with the managment.
Boullier was 2nd to Horner for team boss of the year IMO. Renault did a fantastic job this year (amazingly they've only this year solved problems going back to 2007 to do with the wind tunnel).
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
loque Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the @#$%& have you been smoking, sonny?
>
> RENAULT SUPPLY THE ENGINES TO LOTUS - HENCE,
> LOTUS-RENAULT.
>
> Jeeeeeeeeeeez. It's not that difficult to
> comprehend.
A massive +1. He could try reading the bloody thread as well! What part of Constructors names have been set is also hard to understand?
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the @#$%& have you been smoking, sonny?
>
> RENAULT SUPPLY THE ENGINES TO LOTUS - HENCE,
> LOTUS-RENAULT.
>
> Jeeeeeeeeeeez. It's not that difficult to
> comprehend.
A massive +1. He could try reading the bloody thread as well! What part of Constructors names have been set is also hard to understand?
I think TF's Lotus should go Green and White like the BP days. @#$%& car, nice livery. Either that or something similar to the Camel livery, which was also nice.
Whuddy'a think?
Something like this:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 10:51PM by loque.
Whuddy'a think?
Something like this:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 10:51PM by loque.
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