Official Korean Grand Prix 2010 Thread ***SPOILERS***
Posted by MikaHalpinen
kubica2 Wrote:
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>stuff
In terms of pure speed Vettel and Lewis are ahead of the field. The numbers tell you that (shear number of poles and fastest laps). But the numbers also tell you as race drivers they still lack something. (and if you read back on my posts about Vettel 1, i hate him, and 2, he's still got alot of rough edges). The proof is in the points. Webber leads Vettel and Lewis only just leads Button. No doubt Lewis is quicker than Button but his mistakes have cost him and is what has allowed Jenson to say close (that and some badluck but thats a random occurance unlike driver error). I still feel (and you'll find many who agree) that Vettel and Lewis are the kings of pure speed, and its for that reason I want them in the same car. Once both drivers smooth their rough edges they will be a force like non-other! Both drivers if it werent for driver error would IMO be leading the WDC. Webber and Vettel are pretty close, probably the closest lineup in the sport at the moment but the difference is Webber has probably reached his potential whilst Lewis and Vettel are unlocking theirs.
As for Lewis and his overtakes. Well thats abit harsh. He might have had the magic boost button last year and an F-duct this year but you can not deny he is a top-class overtaker. (when Lewis came to F1 i disliked him, and I admit it was because he was and is better than Jenson, I loved the idea of Lewis being in F1 before 2007, I followed his career carefully but then I realized he made Jense look rather mediocre so hated him, now ive grown up can appreciate what an awesome driver and person he really is). He isnt spoilt. His father had a tough time helping progress his career and when he got Mclarens input, it was limited. As you'd expect at that time, why would Mclaren spend money on a racer who could be a Inoue in an f1 car (kinda like Jan magnussen?). Mclarens input to Hamiltons career was very limited, they guided him and offered advice but the support in terms of funding is greatly over-rated.
He still had to work hard. All 24 drivers have worked hard to get where they are. You cant get to F1 without having worked hard enough in the first place (unless you got a shitload of sponsor money ofc!). To say Lewis had an easy time compared to Webber is silly. Lewis still had to win races and championships. In all honesty ALL the drivers should count themselves lukcy in that they are the select few who get to drive these cars. There are many many drivers with success in lower formula series who never get that chance. Their name gets forgotten and they end up doing some series nobody cares about. Sure Lewis had Mclaren backing and they gave him the chance, but Webber had Aussie backing and Stoddard gave him the chance. Frank Williams saw Jenson and took a chance. It just happens.
Lewis maybe should have won in 2007, and he did make 2008 difficult but likewise Alonso should have not let nerves get to him and the two time champ should have used his experience of racing a 7WDC to beat a rookie. In 2008, Massa should have, could ahve done that but didnt. Button arguably made 2009 hard for himself too.
In 2009 in the first half Lewis was awful. But I dont remember ever seeing a smile on his face. And that was one of the turning points for me as to why I ended up liking him. You could see it in his face how much he hated not being able to win. But once he got over himself he was the star of the 2nd half of the season. He made Heikki look like a snail. The guy was quick beyond belief in a car that even at Abu Dhabi probably should have been capable of leading against a RBR or Brawn.
I am a dreamer yes, but im very in touch with reality. To the point I realize just how good Lewis and Vettel are. It doesnt mean to say I dont rate Webber, because I do. I think Brazil 2003 qualifying was where I really came to like him and realize he could be something good in a good enough car. But I dont accept that notion that he's had such a hard life getting to F1. They all have. They've all made sacrifices and it must have been hard for them and their family. Lewis is no exception juxt because he had a sticker saying Mclaren on his kart.
I want Webber to win this years WDC because I dont think he'll get another chance, and because he's driven the best (so far). I like Webber, he's very likeable. He follows Schumacher in the amount of work he does for charity, its quite amazing actually but if he doesnt win this year, its only because whoever has won has driven better over the course of the 19 races.
edit - sorry for diverting from the thread!!!! be nice vader.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2010 09:41PM by chet.
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>stuff
In terms of pure speed Vettel and Lewis are ahead of the field. The numbers tell you that (shear number of poles and fastest laps). But the numbers also tell you as race drivers they still lack something. (and if you read back on my posts about Vettel 1, i hate him, and 2, he's still got alot of rough edges). The proof is in the points. Webber leads Vettel and Lewis only just leads Button. No doubt Lewis is quicker than Button but his mistakes have cost him and is what has allowed Jenson to say close (that and some badluck but thats a random occurance unlike driver error). I still feel (and you'll find many who agree) that Vettel and Lewis are the kings of pure speed, and its for that reason I want them in the same car. Once both drivers smooth their rough edges they will be a force like non-other! Both drivers if it werent for driver error would IMO be leading the WDC. Webber and Vettel are pretty close, probably the closest lineup in the sport at the moment but the difference is Webber has probably reached his potential whilst Lewis and Vettel are unlocking theirs.
As for Lewis and his overtakes. Well thats abit harsh. He might have had the magic boost button last year and an F-duct this year but you can not deny he is a top-class overtaker. (when Lewis came to F1 i disliked him, and I admit it was because he was and is better than Jenson, I loved the idea of Lewis being in F1 before 2007, I followed his career carefully but then I realized he made Jense look rather mediocre so hated him, now ive grown up can appreciate what an awesome driver and person he really is). He isnt spoilt. His father had a tough time helping progress his career and when he got Mclarens input, it was limited. As you'd expect at that time, why would Mclaren spend money on a racer who could be a Inoue in an f1 car (kinda like Jan magnussen?). Mclarens input to Hamiltons career was very limited, they guided him and offered advice but the support in terms of funding is greatly over-rated.
He still had to work hard. All 24 drivers have worked hard to get where they are. You cant get to F1 without having worked hard enough in the first place (unless you got a shitload of sponsor money ofc!). To say Lewis had an easy time compared to Webber is silly. Lewis still had to win races and championships. In all honesty ALL the drivers should count themselves lukcy in that they are the select few who get to drive these cars. There are many many drivers with success in lower formula series who never get that chance. Their name gets forgotten and they end up doing some series nobody cares about. Sure Lewis had Mclaren backing and they gave him the chance, but Webber had Aussie backing and Stoddard gave him the chance. Frank Williams saw Jenson and took a chance. It just happens.
Lewis maybe should have won in 2007, and he did make 2008 difficult but likewise Alonso should have not let nerves get to him and the two time champ should have used his experience of racing a 7WDC to beat a rookie. In 2008, Massa should have, could ahve done that but didnt. Button arguably made 2009 hard for himself too.
In 2009 in the first half Lewis was awful. But I dont remember ever seeing a smile on his face. And that was one of the turning points for me as to why I ended up liking him. You could see it in his face how much he hated not being able to win. But once he got over himself he was the star of the 2nd half of the season. He made Heikki look like a snail. The guy was quick beyond belief in a car that even at Abu Dhabi probably should have been capable of leading against a RBR or Brawn.
I am a dreamer yes, but im very in touch with reality. To the point I realize just how good Lewis and Vettel are. It doesnt mean to say I dont rate Webber, because I do. I think Brazil 2003 qualifying was where I really came to like him and realize he could be something good in a good enough car. But I dont accept that notion that he's had such a hard life getting to F1. They all have. They've all made sacrifices and it must have been hard for them and their family. Lewis is no exception juxt because he had a sticker saying Mclaren on his kart.
I want Webber to win this years WDC because I dont think he'll get another chance, and because he's driven the best (so far). I like Webber, he's very likeable. He follows Schumacher in the amount of work he does for charity, its quite amazing actually but if he doesnt win this year, its only because whoever has won has driven better over the course of the 19 races.
edit - sorry for diverting from the thread!!!! be nice vader.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2010 09:41PM by chet.
@kubica2
LOL!!!!!!
As chet has said, Vettel and Hamilton are the two fastest drivers in F1 at the moment, and he's right to want them in the same team to duel it out.
Is Webber as fast as Vettel and Hamilton? No.
Is he as complete as Alonso. No.
Is he top 5? Maybe.
The reason he leads is because he's kept his nose clean, driven brilliantly on occasion and benefited from others mistakes and failures.
This is an incredibly tight championship, and any of the five contenders would be leading had things gone their way.
Everyone has driven well enough to lead the championship, and it's down to the luck of the draw as to who prevails.
Personally, i don't mind if any of the contenders win it, (except Button) as they've all driven well enough to be a worthy champion.
LOL!!!!!!
As chet has said, Vettel and Hamilton are the two fastest drivers in F1 at the moment, and he's right to want them in the same team to duel it out.
Is Webber as fast as Vettel and Hamilton? No.
Is he as complete as Alonso. No.
Is he top 5? Maybe.
The reason he leads is because he's kept his nose clean, driven brilliantly on occasion and benefited from others mistakes and failures.
This is an incredibly tight championship, and any of the five contenders would be leading had things gone their way.
Everyone has driven well enough to lead the championship, and it's down to the luck of the draw as to who prevails.
Personally, i don't mind if any of the contenders win it, (except Button) as they've all driven well enough to be a worthy champion.
I wouldn't complain at anyone winning it.
- Webber has generally kept his head so far (his main weakness usually) which has resulted in his excellent finishing record
- Vettel is always fun to watch and has a flair that Webber will never possess
- Alonso is comfortably the greatest driver on the grid at the moment and his car has been very lack-lustre for a lot of the season, so it's a minor miracle he's still got a chance at all
- Hamilton has been quick but erratic
- Button has been the opposite - making hay while the sun doesn't shine but generally unspectacularly
Whoever wins, they will have won it due to their own unique qualities winning it for them. While it's not the closest title battle ever (in terms of the top 2), it's fascinating that we've got 5 drivers just outside of 10 points of each other using the old scoring method with 3 races to go and no one having any idea of which way it will swing.... it's epically close. 2008 was exhilarating on a whole new level. 2010 is fascinating.
I guess if I was really being picky I'd prefer Webber over Vettel and Button over Hamilton, but only because Vettel and Hamilton ought to have plenty more opportunities. My only real hope is that if Alonso wins, that he does it by more than 7 points just to eliminate the comments from those who would say he only won because of Hockenheim... (not that Massa deserves a much this season mind... he's been annihilated by Alonso). You could probably argue the other way (for example Alonso being Massa's tail-gunner in Melbourne to an extent, while many were calling for Massa to let him through), but given the obviousness of Hockenheim, it would be easier if Alonso won comfortably (can't see it) or if he failed.
Have to say that all things being equal that it's Vettel's to lose. He's got the momentum, he's generally quicker than Webber and he's got the fastest car... still we don't love F1 because it's predictable, do we?
- Webber has generally kept his head so far (his main weakness usually) which has resulted in his excellent finishing record
- Vettel is always fun to watch and has a flair that Webber will never possess
- Alonso is comfortably the greatest driver on the grid at the moment and his car has been very lack-lustre for a lot of the season, so it's a minor miracle he's still got a chance at all
- Hamilton has been quick but erratic
- Button has been the opposite - making hay while the sun doesn't shine but generally unspectacularly
Whoever wins, they will have won it due to their own unique qualities winning it for them. While it's not the closest title battle ever (in terms of the top 2), it's fascinating that we've got 5 drivers just outside of 10 points of each other using the old scoring method with 3 races to go and no one having any idea of which way it will swing.... it's epically close. 2008 was exhilarating on a whole new level. 2010 is fascinating.
I guess if I was really being picky I'd prefer Webber over Vettel and Button over Hamilton, but only because Vettel and Hamilton ought to have plenty more opportunities. My only real hope is that if Alonso wins, that he does it by more than 7 points just to eliminate the comments from those who would say he only won because of Hockenheim... (not that Massa deserves a much this season mind... he's been annihilated by Alonso). You could probably argue the other way (for example Alonso being Massa's tail-gunner in Melbourne to an extent, while many were calling for Massa to let him through), but given the obviousness of Hockenheim, it would be easier if Alonso won comfortably (can't see it) or if he failed.
Have to say that all things being equal that it's Vettel's to lose. He's got the momentum, he's generally quicker than Webber and he's got the fastest car... still we don't love F1 because it's predictable, do we?
I do like to see new champions, so in that respect i want to see Webber win.
He is also the one out of the 3 most likely that have had the least controversy. Vettel as been very daft with some situations (Turkey and Belgium are most obvious) and Alonso does seem to have controversy everywhere he goes (Singapore with Piquet, the spying scandal with mclaren and then the team orders this year), he always seems like the common denominator if there's controversy.
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He is also the one out of the 3 most likely that have had the least controversy. Vettel as been very daft with some situations (Turkey and Belgium are most obvious) and Alonso does seem to have controversy everywhere he goes (Singapore with Piquet, the spying scandal with mclaren and then the team orders this year), he always seems like the common denominator if there's controversy.
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this is going to be AWESOME!
Ideal, Mclaren one two!
My prediction;
1. JB
2. FA
3. Lewis
3 best mixed condition drivers imo, not in that order tho :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Ideal, Mclaren one two!
My prediction;
1. JB
2. FA
3. Lewis
3 best mixed condition drivers imo, not in that order tho :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Just started watching and for once I'm not happy it's wet...
I was really looking forward to seeing those opening first corners in the dry. Those softs were expected to fall apart too (given the lateness of the tarmac laying), so that's something we'll likely not see by the time the tarmac has cured next year.
Still I suppose you never turn down the opportunity of a wet race, and it's probably exactly what McLaren needed - a spanner in the works.
I was really looking forward to seeing those opening first corners in the dry. Those softs were expected to fall apart too (given the lateness of the tarmac laying), so that's something we'll likely not see by the time the tarmac has cured next year.
Still I suppose you never turn down the opportunity of a wet race, and it's probably exactly what McLaren needed - a spanner in the works.
Wet wet wet wet
Good news for those on the dirty side of the track@`
GPGSL WDC Season 4
Good news for those on the dirty side of the track@`
GPGSL WDC Season 4
The point about the tyres gav is that it was also the prime graining aswell, though I dont think it would have been another Canada. Both RBR's excel in tyre presevation and had the race stayed dry then i think they would have ran and hid, unless Alonso could have helped stop that.
A wet race in the heat of a WDC is simply a godsend :p
Im sure Bernie must have some sort of deal with him... that or the devil
!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
A wet race in the heat of a WDC is simply a godsend :p
Im sure Bernie must have some sort of deal with him... that or the devil
!"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Yeah. this has got the potential to be epic.
I'm sure Kubica will be one to watch as well.
X (@ed24f1)
I'm sure Kubica will be one to watch as well.
X (@ed24f1)
Ive not been this excited by a race in a long time :D!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
An unfamiliar track made into a skid-pan by a mixture of rain and new-track juices, plus the Championship pressures. This'll be nuts!
Something's going to happen down into Turn 3 with all the different top speeds and all the spray.
Start delayed 10 minutes...
X (@ed24f1)
Start delayed 10 minutes...
X (@ed24f1)
quite pleased about SC start. Will meant theres no banzai first lap and hopefully means the drivers keep a cool head.
Only disapointing thing is Horners smile. He knows he's safe for at least a lap now!
I dont understand the delay though, its not like track conditions will improve much in 10mins :s
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Only disapointing thing is Horners smile. He knows he's safe for at least a lap now!
I dont understand the delay though, its not like track conditions will improve much in 10mins :s
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
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