Turbos and ground effects back for 2013? (Topic Merged)
Posted by senninho
So says Autosport
If it's true, good things might happen. I think i'm one of a very small minority that liked the way the turbo 4cyl engines used to sound :S
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2010 05:31AM by Bigbrother.
If it's true, good things might happen. I think i'm one of a very small minority that liked the way the turbo 4cyl engines used to sound :S
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2010 05:31AM by Bigbrother.
[www.autosport.com]
By Jonathan Noble
Formula 1 teams are closing in on finalising all-new regulations for 2013 that will likely see a return of ground effect cars and turbo engines - as the sport witnessed in the early 1980's.
Several think-tank Working Groups have been set up to get consensus on moves to improve the spectacle of F1 and ensure it becomes more environmentally friendly.
On the engine side, draft regulations were circulated among teams a few weeks ago and the latest plan is for 1.6-litre four-cylinder turbo engines to become standard.
The power units will be bolstered by numerous energy recovery systems, and should produce around 650bhp. Plans are also being considered to limit engines to just five per driver per season.
In a bid to further increase F1's green credentials, teams are also keen for there to be a fuel flow rate limit - which will ensure the engines are economical.
Williams technical director Sam Michael said: "Rather than dump as much fuel in as we can at the moment, there will be a fuel flow metre - so you won't be able to blow more than a certain amount of fuel. It is a good chunk less than we had at the moment."
On the chassis front, Williams co-owner Patrick Head and former Ferrari designer Rory Byrne are working with the FIA to head up concepts for new car rules.
Teams are keen for the cars to be better for overtaking than the current generation of machines - with ground effect being actively considered.
"They are talking about putting a greater proportion of down force to the diffuser, a ground effect car - like the early 1980's," added Michael. "They have been looking at that, as well as increasing crash protection at the front of the car by moving the sidepods further forwards."
LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
By Jonathan Noble
Formula 1 teams are closing in on finalising all-new regulations for 2013 that will likely see a return of ground effect cars and turbo engines - as the sport witnessed in the early 1980's.
Several think-tank Working Groups have been set up to get consensus on moves to improve the spectacle of F1 and ensure it becomes more environmentally friendly.
On the engine side, draft regulations were circulated among teams a few weeks ago and the latest plan is for 1.6-litre four-cylinder turbo engines to become standard.
The power units will be bolstered by numerous energy recovery systems, and should produce around 650bhp. Plans are also being considered to limit engines to just five per driver per season.
In a bid to further increase F1's green credentials, teams are also keen for there to be a fuel flow rate limit - which will ensure the engines are economical.
Williams technical director Sam Michael said: "Rather than dump as much fuel in as we can at the moment, there will be a fuel flow metre - so you won't be able to blow more than a certain amount of fuel. It is a good chunk less than we had at the moment."
On the chassis front, Williams co-owner Patrick Head and former Ferrari designer Rory Byrne are working with the FIA to head up concepts for new car rules.
Teams are keen for the cars to be better for overtaking than the current generation of machines - with ground effect being actively considered.
"They are talking about putting a greater proportion of down force to the diffuser, a ground effect car - like the early 1980's," added Michael. "They have been looking at that, as well as increasing crash protection at the front of the car by moving the sidepods further forwards."
LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
Rubbish.
1.6? Jesus.
Supposed to be the PINNACLE. WHY ARE WE ALWAYS GOING BACKWARDS?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2010 04:54PM by superchargednut.
1.6? Jesus.
Supposed to be the PINNACLE. WHY ARE WE ALWAYS GOING BACKWARDS?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2010 04:54PM by superchargednut.
gav Wrote:
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> Not sure about more emphasis on the diffuser.
> Isn't the concern with multi-deck diffusers that
> they lift a lot of air away from any following
> car?
IIRC, moving the centre of pressure further forward and lengthening the path that the air has to travel reduces the turbulence. I'm sure Chetson will correct me
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure about more emphasis on the diffuser.
> Isn't the concern with multi-deck diffusers that
> they lift a lot of air away from any following
> car?
IIRC, moving the centre of pressure further forward and lengthening the path that the air has to travel reduces the turbulence. I'm sure Chetson will correct me
going to make our aussie v8s with also 650hp look a bit outdated!!
they r gonna have smaller engines than wrc..
2013 - Nando must come through..
they r gonna have smaller engines than wrc..
I have merged those two topics to 1 since its going about the same subject 
gav Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since when has Bigbrother been a mod? :\
since a week
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> Since when has Bigbrother been a mod? :\
since a week
senninho Wrote:
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> IIRC, moving the centre of pressure further
> forward and lengthening the path that the air has
> to travel reduces the turbulence. I'm sure Chetson
> will correct me
haha, i wouldnt so sure :p
lengthening the path would help, but how can you increase the length? swifts idea is probably the best thing as people have said.
As for the CoP... i thought the problem last year was the CoP was moving too far forward when following. So it wasnt so much a loss of downforce that was the issue, but more so a change in balance. That will change year to year though, depending on what the tyres demand. Like last year they needed more front loading to work. I still thought generally designers aimed to get the CoP as forward as possible, though I know with aircraft, stability depends on the distance between the CoP and CoG... im not sure how that works with 4 wheels.
All in all, i cant accuratey answer :p
Rules sound great though imo, but as Dave said, its like guessing now, seems to change every week!!!! i like small capacity turbos though, f1 needs to work on engine efficiency!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
-------------------------------------------------------
> IIRC, moving the centre of pressure further
> forward and lengthening the path that the air has
> to travel reduces the turbulence. I'm sure Chetson
> will correct me
haha, i wouldnt so sure :p
lengthening the path would help, but how can you increase the length? swifts idea is probably the best thing as people have said.
As for the CoP... i thought the problem last year was the CoP was moving too far forward when following. So it wasnt so much a loss of downforce that was the issue, but more so a change in balance. That will change year to year though, depending on what the tyres demand. Like last year they needed more front loading to work. I still thought generally designers aimed to get the CoP as forward as possible, though I know with aircraft, stability depends on the distance between the CoP and CoG... im not sure how that works with 4 wheels.
All in all, i cant accuratey answer :p
Rules sound great though imo, but as Dave said, its like guessing now, seems to change every week!!!! i like small capacity turbos though, f1 needs to work on engine efficiency!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't mind V6s from a technical stand point I
> suppose, but the sound I see getting worse again.
Depends what you look for in an engine sound. The engine in this video is a 1.5-litre 4-cylinder turbo that produces about 400bhp. It is very similar to what we will see in F1 in 2013, but the 2013 engines will be far more powerful (650bhp compared to 400bhp). Bear with the video becuase he doesn't really get stuck in until about 0:37.
As far as I can see, F1 cars are going back to the golden years - both in looks, technology and sound first we had slick tyres, traction control and other driver aids banned, flipups on the bodywork have gone aswell. Now, we will see ground effect cars make a return as well as engines that sound similar and are characteristically similar to the golden years if we heard this back in the early 2000s, how could we ever complain?!
EDIT: Bit more info here...
[axisofoversteer.blogspot.com]
Looks like KERS will apply in 30 second bursts, and will increase the engine from 650bhp to 800bhp.
The sidepods being stretched forwards will mean that there will be less reliance on front wings and that there will be increased crash protection.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2010 11:50AM by flat tyre.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't mind V6s from a technical stand point I
> suppose, but the sound I see getting worse again.
Depends what you look for in an engine sound. The engine in this video is a 1.5-litre 4-cylinder turbo that produces about 400bhp. It is very similar to what we will see in F1 in 2013, but the 2013 engines will be far more powerful (650bhp compared to 400bhp). Bear with the video becuase he doesn't really get stuck in until about 0:37.
As far as I can see, F1 cars are going back to the golden years - both in looks, technology and sound
first we had slick tyres, traction control and other driver aids banned, flipups on the bodywork have gone aswell. Now, we will see ground effect cars make a return as well as engines that sound similar and are characteristically similar to the golden years if we heard this back in the early 2000s, how could we ever complain?!EDIT: Bit more info here...
[axisofoversteer.blogspot.com]
Looks like KERS will apply in 30 second bursts, and will increase the engine from 650bhp to 800bhp.
The sidepods being stretched forwards will mean that there will be less reliance on front wings and that there will be increased crash protection.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2010 11:50AM by flat tyre.
Quote
flat tyre
if we heard this back in the early 2000s, how could we ever complain?!
Because good cars on a @#$%& track is still @#$%&.
gav Wrote:
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> > 1.6? Jesus.
>
>
> It was 1.5 in the 80s, and they were producing
> upwards of 1,200bhp in qualifying.
I realised this straight after I posted it, but I was very tired and couldn't be bothered to correct myself
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> > 1.6? Jesus.
>
>
> It was 1.5 in the 80s, and they were producing
> upwards of 1,200bhp in qualifying.
I realised this straight after I posted it, but I was very tired and couldn't be bothered to correct myself
chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lengthening the path would help, but how can you
> increase the length?
In the early 80s, the underbody aero started more or less just behind the front wheels
-------------------------------------------------------
> lengthening the path would help, but how can you
> increase the length?
In the early 80s, the underbody aero started more or less just behind the front wheels
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