Turbos and ground effects back for 2013? (Topic Merged)
Posted by senninho
I don't live for a moderator job in here you know, i only responded to mortals request to help him out for the download section and due an error i tried to do my best in the F1 section as moderator to merge the topics cause they were the same, thats all i did as moderator.
i think that if you know that your job as a moderator is in Gp3/Gp4 forums you shouldnt mod in the F1 forum, just because it is not your job (im not saying you´ve done well or bad, just it wasnt your job) and you should know that making that would be a polemic move... it could be an stephan´s error but you´ve done it anyway.
anyway, whatever, lets go back to topic
compare this:
1982 Ferrari 126C2
note how long are the sidepods
1983 Ferrari 126 C3
much smaller sidepods, due to banned groundeffect.
personally, i like much more the 126C2, and even more the 1981 126C
i think that if you know that your job as a moderator is in Gp3/Gp4 forums you shouldnt mod in the F1 forum, just because it is not your job (im not saying you´ve done well or bad, just it wasnt your job) and you should know that making that would be a polemic move... it could be an stephan´s error but you´ve done it anyway.
anyway, whatever, lets go back to topic
compare this:
1982 Ferrari 126C2
note how long are the sidepods
1983 Ferrari 126 C3
much smaller sidepods, due to banned groundeffect.
personally, i like much more the 126C2, and even more the 1981 126C
Off-topic: I've got nothing against Bigbrother being a moderator, and it does sound like a couple of mistakes have snowballed in this thread, but maybe we would save all the hoo-hah by having future mod requests stickied across all forums? I'd be happy to help out here in any way*, but hardly ever visit the GP3 forum.
On-topic: Frantic, I see your Ferraris and raise you the ultimate ground effects car:
Oops... by 'ultimate' i mean 'actually good':
* I'd donate if i had the money
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2010 10:09PM by senninho.
On-topic: Frantic, I see your Ferraris and raise you the ultimate ground effects car:
Oops... by 'ultimate' i mean 'actually good':
* I'd donate if i had the money
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2010 10:09PM by senninho.
wow, that arrows really looks like a submarine 
... and the Lotus is the double-chassis Lotus 88, isnt it?
... and the Lotus is the double-chassis Lotus 88, isnt it?Yeah, Lotus 88 and an Arrows A2, aka the Doodlebug. Because they hadn't quite grasped the concept, it tended to bottom out and lose downforce with a bang repeatedly. I was kinda hoping they'd be able to model that in the '79 mod for rFactor
Rubbishness aside, it does look awesome.
Rubbishness aside, it does look awesome.
I've always kind of thought that a return to ground effects could go a long way towards cleaning up the airflow and turbulence and perhaps make it actually easier for the cars to follow each other closer in corners.
Ban winglets and flaps etc, have small wings, bring back diffusers and skirts and increase the width of the tyres.
Ban winglets and flaps etc, have small wings, bring back diffusers and skirts and increase the width of the tyres.
The idea of a moderator is to keep things within limits. In a moderation sense they should make little decisions of their own, only those in order to help keep the peace or help keep unacceptable material from the eyes of others.
In no way should a moderator be a figure frequently embroiled in controversy, yet they needn't be a saint either - so long as the rules are exactly the same for mods as they are for members and are adhered to, then that's all which is asked - something which hasn't always been the case here.
Stephan pays for much of this site out of his own pocket, presumably maintaining much of the site himself too, so he probably shouldn't have to put up with people questioning either himself or those who he puts in a position to maintain the order.
Still, a community, in order to succeed, needs to have absolute faith in those who do have those rights, and while Stephan pays for the majority, it shouldn't be forgotten that donations are gladly accepted to go towards the running of this site. I'd like to think that those donating get the opportunity to have a say in the way some things are done - certainly those which affect the community aspect of the site, where everyone can be involved in everything.
I think it's fare to say that hasn't been the case in this instance.
Some people here have donated a significant amount of money in order to help keep this site going, both recently and in the past, and they didn't do so in order to simply be told to go elsewhere. I'm aware donations are voluntary (as is your 'position' yet as a donator I would expect to at least have a say on who does the moderation should a position arise, and not a solitary post in the relatively selective GP3 forum.
I've nothing against you personally, so this isn't mindless name-calling, merely a call for some respect.
Likewise, there's no jealousy. I've been an admin on a large site and due to an (outside of forum) altercation with a member I felt I couldn't continue in that role. I wouldn't want that role if I felt those around me had no respect for the decisions I made, so I wouldn't offer myself for this role - I'm too cynical now.
What's that got to do with moderating? Moderators don't need to help, they're there to moderate. Posts are posts, help is help, but they add zero to their moderation capabilities or credentials. There are many members here who have helped people no end, time after time, but they're not moderators.
In no way should a moderator be a figure frequently embroiled in controversy, yet they needn't be a saint either - so long as the rules are exactly the same for mods as they are for members and are adhered to, then that's all which is asked - something which hasn't always been the case here.
Stephan pays for much of this site out of his own pocket, presumably maintaining much of the site himself too, so he probably shouldn't have to put up with people questioning either himself or those who he puts in a position to maintain the order.
Still, a community, in order to succeed, needs to have absolute faith in those who do have those rights, and while Stephan pays for the majority, it shouldn't be forgotten that donations are gladly accepted to go towards the running of this site. I'd like to think that those donating get the opportunity to have a say in the way some things are done - certainly those which affect the community aspect of the site, where everyone can be involved in everything.
I think it's fare to say that hasn't been the case in this instance.
Quote
Bigbrother
Some persons in here doesn't have anything better todo then nagging, searching for discussion, calling moderators who are here for years names, ... its very simple like Lee always says when he release a file, if you don't like it don't use it same goes for the forum, if you don't like it don't come here anymore and let the members that still enjoy there time here alone with your jealousy, anger
Some people here have donated a significant amount of money in order to help keep this site going, both recently and in the past, and they didn't do so in order to simply be told to go elsewhere. I'm aware donations are voluntary (as is your 'position'
yet as a donator I would expect to at least have a say on who does the moderation should a position arise, and not a solitary post in the relatively selective GP3 forum.I've nothing against you personally, so this isn't mindless name-calling, merely a call for some respect.
Likewise, there's no jealousy. I've been an admin on a large site and due to an (outside of forum) altercation with a member I felt I couldn't continue in that role. I wouldn't want that role if I felt those around me had no respect for the decisions I made, so I wouldn't offer myself for this role - I'm too cynical now.
Quote
Bigbrother
Like said before, i've helped many members in the past with updating their game, providing files
What's that got to do with moderating? Moderators don't need to help, they're there to moderate. Posts are posts, help is help, but they add zero to their moderation capabilities or credentials. There are many members here who have helped people no end, time after time, but they're not moderators.
If the cars only have 650 hp then there will probably be almost no overtaking.
The top speeds will be lower, and therefore braking distances way shorter than they are at the moment, (assuming they don't have a brake technology regression) which barely permit outbraking anyway.
The top speeds will be lower, and therefore braking distances way shorter than they are at the moment, (assuming they don't have a brake technology regression) which barely permit outbraking anyway.
If you guys missed the posts where I called for a downloads area moderator, I cannot help that. I asked for responses via pm. I waited and received only one response, after which the notice was taken down. As the majority of the users visit this site for GP4 & GP3, those forums where chosen to place my request,and that is where the modders, uploaders and downloaders of the material on this site are usually to be found.
Two moderators were recently removed from all-permissions due to inactivity, one moderator is a 'secret-squirrel' and has chosen to be so, until I hear from him otherwise, his name will not appear on the list, although most of you know his id anyway. The downloads area list has yet to be updated, and as Stephan is away on holidays right now, it wont be till after the end of the month.
I have to agree with Dave's comments, it is a thankless, unpaid job where almost every day I am on the receiving end of some sort of abuse from someone or other. You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time, or something like it.
Also, no-one has considered that I might just have given the job to Steve because of the fact that he has a EU3000 price on his head! How good a wind-up is that! Also, the fact that Steve has been banned previously doesn't enter into it, usually bans here are not permanent, and for the most part, users are allowed back in. I've always said I don't particularly like putting people off the site, it's counter-productive and not good for the community.
My apologies to the OP for the thread derailment.
[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to. [www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Central
Two moderators were recently removed from all-permissions due to inactivity, one moderator is a 'secret-squirrel' and has chosen to be so, until I hear from him otherwise, his name will not appear on the list, although most of you know his id anyway. The downloads area list has yet to be updated, and as Stephan is away on holidays right now, it wont be till after the end of the month.
I have to agree with Dave's comments, it is a thankless, unpaid job where almost every day I am on the receiving end of some sort of abuse from someone or other. You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time, or something like it.
Also, no-one has considered that I might just have given the job to Steve because of the fact that he has a EU3000 price on his head! How good a wind-up is that!
Also, the fact that Steve has been banned previously doesn't enter into it, usually bans here are not permanent, and for the most part, users are allowed back in. I've always said I don't particularly like putting people off the site, it's counter-productive and not good for the community.My apologies to the OP for the thread derailment.
[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to.
[www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Centralnow back to topic
salvasirignano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the cars only have 650 hp then there will
> probably be almost no overtaking.
> The top speeds will be lower, and therefore
> braking distances way shorter than they are at the
> moment, (assuming they don't have a brake
> technology regression) which barely permit
> outbraking anyway.
the solution: steel brakes.
salvasirignano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the cars only have 650 hp then there will
> probably be almost no overtaking.
> The top speeds will be lower, and therefore
> braking distances way shorter than they are at the
> moment, (assuming they don't have a brake
> technology regression) which barely permit
> outbraking anyway.
the solution: steel brakes.
Quote
Morbid
Gav, with all due respect, you misunderstand the word "donation". It is an act of charity, that transfers property, no strings attached. Offering money and expecting influence is called "buying a share/stake/whatever". So if you expect influence, you did the wrong thing. Sorry dude.
Indeed, however by donating you are at the minimum showing an appreciation for something - in my case the forum, as I've not downloaded anything from here for about 6 years - and would like some communication on how things are going and be able to provide feedback, whether it's taken in or not.
To show otherwise is just to say "@#$%& it, we're doing things our way, we couldn't give a @#$%& about you, but cheers for the money anyway". Courtesy costs nothing.
If Bigbrother is a mod for the download area, only the software is currently not able to limit that, what the hell is he doing moderating posts in the F1 forum?
Quote
Morbid
Now can we stay on topic?
Maybe a mod can split the topic and move it to the relevant area?
I think I've already said that the F1 forum permission was an oversight, that will soon be rectified. However, given that the permission was not meant to be given, Steve should not have split the thread, and in hindsight, he should have asked another moderator about merging the thread. I will go so far as to say there will be no further moderation of topics in this forum by Steve.
[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to. [www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Central
[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to.
[www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 CentralWhats happened here?!!
All i can say is that, BigBrother is watching us :p
that was funny right?
If not, sorry :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
All i can say is that, BigBrother is watching us :p
that was funny right?
If not, sorry :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
chet Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whats happened here?!!
>
> All i can say is that, BigBrother is watching us
> :p
>
> that was funny right?
>
> If not, sorry :p
Yup that was a good one 
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whats happened here?!!
>
> All i can say is that, BigBrother is watching us
> :p
>
> that was funny right?
>
> If not, sorry :p
Yup that was a good one
But back to topic... I love the idea of banning external wings and wing profiles and simply having ground effect tunnels with maybe limitations placed on either inlet and exit areas or total pressure area's? Something to prevent cars running 4000+kg of downforce like the old group c's. Would have to be some clever rule wording to prevent wings or wing profiles as we've seen in Le mans :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
salvasirignano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the cars only have 650 hp then there will
> probably be almost no overtaking.
> The top speeds will be lower, and therefore
> braking distances way shorter than they are at the
> moment, (assuming they don't have a brake
> technology regression) which barely permit
> outbraking anyway.
People are tending to think that the 650bhp engine will have lower top speeds. What they forget is that, with the ground effect, there should be less of a reliance on wings for downforce. This will mean that there will be far less drag. So, if anything, the top speeds will be higher given that there will be less drag and that the engine will be at times more powerful than those of today when the KERS is included (800bhp compared to about 700-750bhp). Braking distances will also increase, because there will be less air resistance to slow the cars down.
People also tend to forget that the cars in this video had engines that were LESS powerful than those of 2013 (1979 Mclaren had 470bhp), as well ground effect. Perhaps we will have more of this to look forward to?
F1 engineers know what they are talking about, they're the best in the business, they're not going to throw away their sport and their passion when they write new rules. People were saying exactly the same things about the 2009 rule changes. "F1 is dead!!" "They've killed the sport!!" "I'll never watch a race again!!" But look at it, people today are saying that the races this year are some of the best that they've seen for years.
Just because the numbers are smaller, it doesn't mean that the racing will be worse. If you like big numbers, go and write the number 1000 on a piece of paper and look at it
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the cars only have 650 hp then there will
> probably be almost no overtaking.
> The top speeds will be lower, and therefore
> braking distances way shorter than they are at the
> moment, (assuming they don't have a brake
> technology regression) which barely permit
> outbraking anyway.
People are tending to think that the 650bhp engine will have lower top speeds. What they forget is that, with the ground effect, there should be less of a reliance on wings for downforce. This will mean that there will be far less drag. So, if anything, the top speeds will be higher given that there will be less drag and that the engine will be at times more powerful than those of today when the KERS is included (800bhp compared to about 700-750bhp). Braking distances will also increase, because there will be less air resistance to slow the cars down.
People also tend to forget that the cars in this video had engines that were LESS powerful than those of 2013 (1979 Mclaren had 470bhp), as well ground effect. Perhaps we will have more of this to look forward to?
F1 engineers know what they are talking about, they're the best in the business, they're not going to throw away their sport and their passion when they write new rules. People were saying exactly the same things about the 2009 rule changes. "F1 is dead!!" "They've killed the sport!!" "I'll never watch a race again!!" But look at it, people today are saying that the races this year are some of the best that they've seen for years.
Just because the numbers are smaller, it doesn't mean that the racing will be worse. If you like big numbers, go and write the number 1000 on a piece of paper and look at it
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
flat tyre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> salvasirignano Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the cars only have 650 hp then there will
> > probably be almost no overtaking.
> > The top speeds will be lower, and therefore
> > braking distances way shorter than they are at
> the
> > moment, (assuming they don't have a brake
> > technology regression) which barely permit
> > outbraking anyway.
>
>
> People are tending to think that the 650bhp engine
> will have lower top speeds. What they forget is
> that, with the ground effect, there should be less
> of a reliance on wings for downforce. This will
> mean that there will be far less drag. So, if
> anything, the top speeds will be higher given that
> there will be less drag and that the engine will
> be at times more powerful than those of today when
> the KERS is included (800bhp compared to about
> 700-750bhp). Braking distances will also increase,
> because there will be less air resistance to slow
> the cars down.
>
> People also tend to forget that the cars in this
> video had engines that were LESS powerful than
> those of 2013 (1979 Mclaren had 470bhp), as well
> ground effect. Perhaps we will have more of this
> to look forward to?
>
> F1 engineers know what they are talking about,
> they're the best in the business, they're not
> going to throw away their sport and their passion
> when they write new rules. People were saying
> exactly the same things about the 2009 rule
> changes. "F1 is dead!!" "They've killed the
> sport!!" "I'll never watch a race again!!" But
> look at it, people today are saying that the races
> this year are some of the best that they've seen
> for years.
>
> Just because the numbers are smaller, it doesn't
> mean that the racing will be worse. If you like
> big numbers, go and write the number 1000 on a
> piece of paper and look at it
>
This is pretty much what I was going to say. IIRC, the '95-'96 cars only had about 650-700bhp, and weren't exactly slow.
@chet - I'm sure the existing regs that govern the size of diffusers could be adapted. IMHO, restricting the tunnel to the area between the start of the sidepod and the start of the rear wheels would be enough - plus, there isn't an awful lot of room for sneaky holes and doubling of stuff, because most of that area has bodywork above it
-------------------------------------------------------
> salvasirignano Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the cars only have 650 hp then there will
> > probably be almost no overtaking.
> > The top speeds will be lower, and therefore
> > braking distances way shorter than they are at
> the
> > moment, (assuming they don't have a brake
> > technology regression) which barely permit
> > outbraking anyway.
>
>
> People are tending to think that the 650bhp engine
> will have lower top speeds. What they forget is
> that, with the ground effect, there should be less
> of a reliance on wings for downforce. This will
> mean that there will be far less drag. So, if
> anything, the top speeds will be higher given that
> there will be less drag and that the engine will
> be at times more powerful than those of today when
> the KERS is included (800bhp compared to about
> 700-750bhp). Braking distances will also increase,
> because there will be less air resistance to slow
> the cars down.
>
> People also tend to forget that the cars in this
> video had engines that were LESS powerful than
> those of 2013 (1979 Mclaren had 470bhp), as well
> ground effect. Perhaps we will have more of this
> to look forward to?
>
> F1 engineers know what they are talking about,
> they're the best in the business, they're not
> going to throw away their sport and their passion
> when they write new rules. People were saying
> exactly the same things about the 2009 rule
> changes. "F1 is dead!!" "They've killed the
> sport!!" "I'll never watch a race again!!" But
> look at it, people today are saying that the races
> this year are some of the best that they've seen
> for years.
>
> Just because the numbers are smaller, it doesn't
> mean that the racing will be worse. If you like
> big numbers, go and write the number 1000 on a
> piece of paper and look at it
>
This is pretty much what I was going to say. IIRC, the '95-'96 cars only had about 650-700bhp, and weren't exactly slow.
@chet - I'm sure the existing regs that govern the size of diffusers could be adapted. IMHO, restricting the tunnel to the area between the start of the sidepod and the start of the rear wheels would be enough - plus, there isn't an awful lot of room for sneaky holes and doubling of stuff, because most of that area has bodywork above it
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