2010 Hungarian Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***

Listening to Vettel there, he doesn't know when he broke the rule. For me, this is EXACTLY the same as Lewis at Valencia. It's one of those obscure rules that drivers don't know, and the teams should keep an eye on for them. I'm actually surprised Red Bull let it happen.

Also surprised at how much abuse Vettel is getting, where as Lewis in the same situation got a lot of support. I guess it proves the existence of fanbois again.

A penalty that should have been avoided if the people involved were on the ball.

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Because Lewis takes it in the right way and doesn't bicker about it infront of the cameras.

Edit: nor does he make disrespectful 'wanker' gestures at every oppertunity.

(to Kubica at Australia last year too)





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2010 03:55PM by superchargednut.

superchargednut Wrote:
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> Because Lewis takes it in the right way and
> doesn't bicker about it infront of the cameras.

Um. Lewis was shouting on the radio at it. And he didn't get angry afterwards because the after all the mess shook out, he didn't actually end up with a penalty - he ended up in the same place.

Secondly, it has nothing to do with how the driver accepted the penalty. It has to do with the type of rule broken. Both Lewis and Vettel fell foul of a rule that drivers just don't know. That is why the teams employ people specifically to study the sporting regulations and sit on the pit wall and supervise everything that goes on. Just like McLaren did in Valencia, Red Bull got caught out when someone wasn't advising the driver correctly.

Vettel still doesn't even know where he got the penalty. He still thinks he got it on the restart, which he didn't. If he had, he'd be right to complain because the gap on the restart is measured at the Safety Car line, NOT the S/F line, and it appeared legal there at the appropriate time.

I'm also begining to REALLY hate how everyone moans that a driver must show character and not be a PR monkey. When Webber complains, he's just being open. When Vettel complains he's just a whiner. Set some standards and stick to them for christ sake. We have a surprising amount of drivers being quite vocal at the moment and I for one are loving it. Stop moaning about characters! Vettel SHOULD be pissed. As far as he knew he should have won. He f**ked up, and I'm sure RBR will be explaining how and why he got the penalty, but what do you expect him to do? Hugs and kisses?

We could just turn all the drivers into mindless PR drones like the Ferrari boys last race. But then we'd complain about that too.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2010 04:03PM by DaveEllis.

I don't know if drivers are supposed to know the entire rulebook word by word, but certainly Red Bull should've been more aware. I can understand Vettel's reaction, even though I don't share it.

either he doesn't know, or he acts as he didn't.... either way the team can't do everything for him, a driver doesn't remind the team about rules in the paddock, the team can't remind a driver the rules in the track... yes, they could've helped, but even if they didn't it was all down to Vettel's fault.... no wonder they told him on radio to "stay focus"

ther Schumacher move, yes dangerous, but c'mon everybody acts as if it was the first time, it was no different to Webber on Massa in Fuji or Webber to Alonso in barcelona... Rubens as expected was just crying out loud and quite surprised FIA is investigating it

instead what they should do is make a rule to prevent moving lines near the pit exit.

Good race, MS was dangerous, IMO he should get 5 place grid penalty, suspended race ban.

Vettel, meh, he broke a somewhat obscure rule. However it was still a rule but again it should be reviewed and clarified exactly what it means. Webber was awesome, as was Hulk and Petrov.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2010 04:08PM by msater.

either he doesn't know, or he acts as he didn't.... either way the team can't do everything for him, a driver doesn't remind the team about rules in the paddock, the team can't remind a driver the rules in the track... yes, they could've helped, but even if they didn't it was all down to Vettel's fault.... no wonder they told him on radio to "stay focus"

The driver is not employed to tell the team the rules. The team DOES employ people whos job is to advise on the rules. Most teams even have this member on the pit wall with them. Ross Brawn used to specialise in this during his Ferrari years. He knew the rules inside out and could exploit every tiny loop hole. This is the job of the staff member. Somebody slipped up, and expecting the driver to know every rule is an unrealistic exception - otherwise that job wouldn't even exist.

Vettel saying he had radio issues - which fits with not being able to hear Rocky and having to get directions with Horner.

I'm actually kinda disappointed in this discussion because we should be concentrating on the amazing drives by Webber and Petrov.

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Vettel is getting abuse because the amount of gap he left to Webber was a joke. How the hell did he not realize he will get a penalty?

He did it for a WHOLE lap... the team should ahve told him still, but yeah Vettel has to be angry at himself only, the supprise is that he's supprised he got a penatly!

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

chet Wrote:
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> Vettel is getting abuse because the amount of gap
> he left to Webber was a joke. How the hell did he
> not realize he will get a penalty?
>
> He did it for a WHOLE lap... the team should ahve
> told him still, but yeah Vettel has to be angry at
> himself only, the supprise is that he's supprised
> he got a penatly!

He didn't do it for the whole lap. He did it from the final corner through to T1. It was on the track map, as provided by the BBC. He is surprised he got a penalty because he didn't know the rule. You know - the same as Lewis passing the Safety Car illegally? You can't expect the drivers to be aware of all this. Why do you think they employ people specifically for this stuff? Do you think they are there for eye candy or what?

The penalty was not the restart, and Vettel still doesn't seem to know that. It was for the replay FOM showed during the race. Vettel took the blame in the press conference saying he was asleep and wasn't aware they were going green. Webber admitted he got lucky, but was still good enough to snatch it. Good honesty from both there, even if Vettel still doesn't understand exactly what he did.

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Webbers drive today was fantastic.

Good drive by alonso done everything he could do, feel a bit bad for vettel it did not really effect the outcome of the race did it by him not being close to webber.

Unlucky for Lewis probably lost 3rd in that race. Button I just do not know what he was doing today.

Great drive by Petrov.

Ms is a complete and utter idiot and he could have really hurt someone today. He has just said he wanted rubens to go on the other side, rubens was already down the bloody inside.

Schumachers interview there was a disgrace. He blamed Rubens for going on the wrong side of the car. But he was already alongside, so he'd have to drive through Michaels car to swap side. That's just not on.

Edit: and I've been awake for about 25 hours or so now, so I'm going to bed :P Sacrificing NASCAR for SLEEP!

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2010 04:13PM by DaveEllis.

DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> either he doesn't know, or he acts as he
> didn't.... either way the team can't do everything
> for him, a driver doesn't remind the team about
> rules in the paddock, the team can't remind a
> driver the rules in the track... yes, they
> could've helped, but even if they didn't it was
> all down to Vettel's fault.... no wonder they told
> him on radio to "stay focus"
>
> The driver is not employed to tell the team the
> rules. The team DOES employ people whos job is to
> advise on the rules. Most teams even have this
> member on the pit wall with them. Ross Brawn used
> to specialise in this during his Ferrari years. He
> knew the rules inside out and could exploit every
> tiny loop hole. This is the job of the staff
> member. Somebody slipped up, and expecting the
> driver to know every rule is an unrealistic
> exception - otherwise that job wouldn't even
> exist.
>
> Vettel saying he had radio issues - which fits
> with not being able to hear Rocky and having to
> get directions with Horner.
>
> I'm actually kinda disappointed in this discussion
> because we should be concentrating on the amazing
> drives by Webber and Petrov.


Webber, well, he's been tremendous this year, he knows it might be his only chance, Petrov, impressive. capitalizing on the start and then keeping the pace, hopefully Renault renews him

the thing with Rubens and Michael... i just dont understand how the 2 more experienced drivers of the grid can make that happen... if Rubens or Michael moves 1 cm and it could end in tragedy... rubens was lucky, and MS a very bad move and (i think) with bad intention...

DaveEllis schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm also begining to REALLY hate how everyone
> moans that a driver must show character and not be
> a PR monkey. When Webber complains, he's just
> being open. When Vettel complains he's just a
> whiner. Set some standards and stick to them for
> christ sake. We have a surprising amount of
> drivers being quite vocal at the moment and I for
> one are loving it. Stop moaning about characters!
> Vettel SHOULD be pissed. As far as he knew he
> should have won. He f**ked up, and I'm sure RBR
> will be explaining how and why he got the penalty,
> but what do you expect him to do? Hugs and
> kisses?
>
> We could just turn all the drivers into mindless
> PR drones like the Ferrari boys last race. But
> then we'd complain about that too.

QFT!

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

Excellent drive by Webber indeed!

Petrov was also fantastic, hopefully he can be more consistent in the remaining part of the season.

Great for the championship as well - danger signs for Button in particular, down to 4th and needs to reverse the downward momentum soon.

Personally, it was good to see Massa put in a solid race. It was a pity that he lost time behind Hamilton, or he could have got ahead of Vettel. His lap times were good, but he struggled a bit with consistency - I don't know if he had traffic on these laps though.

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X (@ed24f1)

Frantic Wrote:
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> the thing with Rubens and Michael... i just dont
> understand how the 2 more experienced drivers of
> the grid can make that happen... if Rubens or
> Michael moves 1 cm and it could end in tragedy...
> rubens was lucky, and MS a very bad move and (i
> think) with bad intention...


what about Michael and Ralf at nurburgring 2001, no penalties were given then ?
or michael and mika at spa . 1:1 to the situation today. or the examples slash gave, or alonso vs webber at Suzuka 2005.
and if you wanna go deeper in the history what about senna and prost at estoril. When senna was later called dangerous driver EVERYBODY disagreed. It is just hard racin ... very hard. And just because no one from the drivers of recent times does it, doesnt mean it is wrong.
For me it was unnessecarely brutal from schumacher, but it is NOT for a penalty IMO.
Everybody is moaning because they are anti schumacher fans and use every opportunity to say something bad about him.
sorry but that is how i see it.
as for the race...Really good quality and webbers middle stint reminded me a bit of Hungary '98 schumachers drive.

@mitadumapaga - Webber vs. Massa at Fuji 2008 was another very similar example.

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X (@ed24f1)

Agreed^..ms move was hard,but what about webber and alonso in barca last year,if he gets a penalty its a joke!..its motor racing people not feckin ballet!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2010 04:52PM by Alesi no1.

Art. 2 Appendix L Sporting Regulations

However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited.

The sporting regulations were violated. Fact.

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@mitadumapaga: well, its ok what you say but the thing is, senna vs prost in Estoril was fighting for victory. MS vs RB was for 10th place. anyway, TV commentators here said that there is a rule that says if one driver kicks out the white line another driver, the first should be punished. I think if MS isnt punished its because it happened almost the same in Hockenheim with Alonso and Vettel, but that case was in the start, not at 290 km/h in the second half of the race so I dont really know whats going to happen with this situation. dont know if TV commentators were wrong with that rule too.

and im not an antischumacher, I just think this time he made a very dangerous and unnecesary brutal move on Rubens.