Brawn GP (topic rename)

Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The delay in Hondas situation tells me that they
> dont have enough money for a full season. Brawn
> said last week, by monday we would have a
> decision. Its tuesday now and they dont have a
> decision yet. Now they postponed it to Thursday.
>

what decision?, all the details that have been leaking out are saying that the decisions already been made its just a case of waiting for the lawers to finish all their stuff.

we're not talking about a house here, it takes time to complete the sale of something this complicated, things like this do drag on. they'd also be legally bound from saying anything offical until it was 100% complete.

with the drivers, i'm with dave on this one, they clearly must have the cash otherwise they'd have gone for bruno.

DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So why didn't they take Bruno? If cash is so
> important, $14m would have helped a huge amount.


I was asking the same thing in my post.

---

Look at it in the longer run, say the entire season.

Senna is a rookie, so he'll make more mistakes and therefore more damage and therefore more costs. Now, I don't know what a frontwing costs, or what it costs if you totally write off a car, but I reckon it'll not be cheap! Also, experience counts a lot. It can even bring in money. Take Silverstone last year, who were at the front by the end of the race? Mostly experienced drivers. Hadn't Barrichello not been so experienced, he might have just spun off, like a lot of younger drivers did. He made it onto the podium -> more points -> higher in the WCC -> more money. Add this all up and hiring Barrichello might even financially be more profitable.

As has already been said, Mercedes was not going to supply engines had the team not been secure for a full season. Funding is in place, no doubt about it. Remember Honda offered support to the buyers, as it is cheaper to get rid of the team that way than to close it down and pay off the staff.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com

Probably not my favourite example but Silverstone is a good one.

Remember JB flying past Rubens? I do, but then I remember more rain coming and Rubens flying back past !

Rubens had the thought to safe his tyres for the longer run incase of more rain, whilst JB blasted off with them to chase Alonso I think it was. It was too long before he had worn them out and when more rain came he was buggered and Rubens cruised to a nice podium lol.

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

i think where part of this decision will have come from is the testing ban.

they'll have had next to no running at all when they turn up in melbourne. this means that friday running is going to be incredibly important, not just for getting a weekend setup, but also if they're not going to sit at the back all year, they'll have to use it for getting in a lot of the car development that they'll have missed out on this winter.

To do this they're going to need as much input from the drivers as possible. Ross probably felt that 2 experienced drivers would be better suited for this

@Nick: First of all, Senna wouldnt do a bunch of mistakes. He is not stupid. How many mistakes he has had in 4 years? Very few compared to the other. He drives better than his rival, hes faster, more talented than him. You dont knock on F1's door after a meteoric 4 years career, if you're not special, talented. That "experienced drivers" excuse/theory doesnt go with me, I dont believe in that bs, sorry nick. If that was true, Senna would have been easily outpaced by everyone since he had re-started his career. Instead, he has beaten guys with more than 10 years experience in lower formulas, building up his way into F1, he fought for both F3 and GP2 titles, just bad things out of his control had happened on his way, like the dog on track at Turkey.

His rival for the seat had 14 years of career in F1, yet he failed to win a title. Never fought for it really. I still dont - and i will never - forgive him for the 2002 Austrian GP, I want 2 hours of my life back because the result of the race was "mounted" since the start.

Thats not an experienced driver. Thats a proof of his own incompetence.

@Dave: As far as I am aware, like I said before, in every place I have read about it, Honda was only giving support for the first four races, not the entire season. I dont see any other place where they would be offering help for an entire season. We are at a point where its hard to find any truth in this Honda Sale Novel.

@Chet: Had a certain Mr Brawn not been incompetent enough to leave JB behind him in the pits waiting for +15 seconds, JB wouldnt have had to push harder. He just had to call one of them first, then let the other one on track. If you have so much confidence in him like Brawn does, why they just didnt called JB first, then let him on track until JB's pitstop was done? I'm 100% sure that JB would have finished 2nd in that race had it been done properly.

That's why I dont like (and i will never like) Brawn: He is always doing things to help his favorite driver. Its like a "mini-Ferrari" inside what is now his team...

Dont say Brawn had nothing to do with the team at that point, because he had, he was contracted, he was on the pitstands working with them. If he is a "good tactician" as many people want to believe, they wouldnt refuse to get an advice of him about that in the race. And I believe that they did.

marwood82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i think where part of this decision will have come
> from is the testing ban.
>
> Ross probably felt
> that 2 experienced drivers would be better suited
> for this

Why do you think that Bruno Senna wouldnt be able to provide a such feedback? In some sites you can see Brawn being quote as being impressed with Sennas test, as well as his feedback about the car. Senna gave an interview to the TV discussing about it, showing a knowledge good enough for it, and that made a very good impression for his interviewers.

Also, If the testing ban was the excuse, dont forget that he had 2 days with their car, although a hybrid car, he has already tested parts of their possible 09 car, such as the wider new front wing, at Barcelona. Meanwhile, the other drive hadnt tested anything, didnt made any physical training, just kept playing golf for three months. Senna is atm better fit than him physically, weighs less than him (an advantage over him about KERS, if they do run a KERS system).

---

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2009 10:38PM by Bruninho.

I'm not so convinced that Bruno would take a huge pot of money to Brackley anyway.

I thought I read somewhere that the main reason that he did not test for STR, and hence was pretty much out of the running is because he did not want to pay for the drive.

I know the STR situation has since changed mainly due to the costs saved by the testing restrictions etc, hence the team keeping on Bourdais even though he couldn't find any money to take to the team, but that development was fairly recent.

Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Why do you think that Bruno Senna wouldnt be able
> to provide a such feedback? In some sites you can
> see Brawn being quote as being impressed with
> Sennas test, as well as his feedback about the
> car. Senna gave an interview to the TV discussing
> about it, showing a knowledge good enough for it,
> and that made a very good impression for his
> interviewers.
>

i'm not saying senna would be utterly useless at providing feedback.
but i do very much doubt that someone who's total time in a formula 1 car comprises of a single 3 day test, would be as good at it as someone who has driven in around 270 grand prix over the last 15 years and has been praised by Ross Brawn for his car development skills.

Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Nick: First of all, Senna wouldnt do a bunch of
> mistakes. He is not stupid. How many mistakes he
> has had in 4 years? Very few compared to the
> other.

Thats not really a comparison. It is like saying to a woman driver of 4 years boasting 'oh I havent had a single accident' and laughing at a hardcore truck driver who has driven for 14 years three times the distance around the earth, and had three accidents.

He drives better than his rival, hes
> faster, more talented than him. You dont knock on
> F1's door after a meteoric 4 years career, if
> you're not special, talented.

Senna hasn't ever raced Rubens though! Rubens has raced in what will soon become a third generation of F1 cars. He was a 90s racer, a 00's racer, and now adapting once more to a new breed of F1 car. Uncomparable.

>
> His rival for the seat had 14 years of career in
> F1, yet he failed to win a title. Never fought for
> it really.

Well, if F1 is the pinnacle of Rubens career, agreed, he did not win it. For Bruno, the pinnacle of his carrer right now is GP2. Bruno didn't win that either, so you can't really compare them at all. But, if you had to, then that would be the only way. Senna still comes off lesser than Rubens' achievements. And the stats I hear you call? Ahem: Rubens' 62 podiums and 9 wins. Enough said. Half of his career he was in a slower car, the other half shadowed by MS. He still got those 62 podiums on his own accord, and according to the 100% fact of stats, he holds one of the top 5 for all time podiums in F1 iirc. Not something to be choked at, really. Quite a career.

Amen. Viva Rubens!


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

I don't see anything wrong with the Button/Barrichello combination.

I wouldn't take risks yet...the team has been through enough during the past few months.

I would stick with Rubens on the off chance a wet race comes along....both Button and Barrichello are good on their day and thats an asset worth keeping i reckon.

I can see both making the most of being on the backfoot and both putting their all in this season.

@danm: That's nearly a 20% record of starts to podiums there. Schumacher has about a 33% record.

---

Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2009 11:17PM by turkey_machine.

After reading this thread (which has now given me a headache) I am amazed at some of the comments here (mainly, no, 99% from a certain user) but this one here REALLY stands tall:

[Bruninho]
I know how good he (Bruno Senna) really is. He is good enough to win the title in F1 and kick the ass of most of the field, because they arent good enough for F1.

I can't even take enough time to type out what is wrong with that sentence. Maybe I got it wrong or did he just say that most of the drivers in Formula One arn't good enough? That Bruno Senna, a man who has never competed in an F1 race, is better than them all? Better than the 2008 drivers champion, better than the most experianced driver in forumla one, better than the two drivers that claimed the constructors world championship title last year?

Wow... what a statement.

madotter schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After reading this thread (which has now given me
> a headache) I am amazed at some of the comments
> here (mainly, no, 99% from a certain user) but
> this one here REALLY stands tall:
>
>
> I know how good he (Bruno Senna) really is. He is
> good enough to win the title in F1 and kick the
> ass of most of the field, because they arent good
> enough for F1.
>
> I can't even take enough time to type out what is
> wrong with that sentence. Maybe I got it wrong or
> did he just say that most of the drivers in
> Formula One arn't good enough? That Bruno Senna, a
> man who has never competed in an F1 race, is
> better than them all? Better than the 2008 drivers
> champion, better than the most experianced driver
> in forumla one, better than the two drivers that
> claimed the constructors world championship title
> last year?
>
> Wow... what a statement.

Amen.

But hell, what are you gonna do about it? I think Bruninho just needs a playgarden to throw his toys when things don't go his way and that playgarden is GPG

_____________________________________________________________________

Bring back the racing

Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Nick: First of all, Senna wouldnt do a bunch of
> mistakes. He is not stupid. How many mistakes he
> has had in 4 years?


Well with all that open wide track in Istanbul he still somehow managed to hit a dog.

---

SexySam182 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruninho Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > @Nick: First of all, Senna wouldnt do a bunch
> of
> > mistakes. He is not stupid. How many mistakes
> he
> > has had in 4 years?
>
>
> Well with all that open wide track in Istanbul he
> still somehow managed to hit a dog.


First it wasnt his mistake. It was the turkish race organisers mistake, they failed to enforce the security around the track not to allow it. I feel sorry for the dog, I have dogs, but that dog shouldnt be there in first place, so you cant blame Senna for that. Or should we fill the track with all the type of animals and do a race to see who kills less animals? Come on man... you can see they were wrong on it.

---

Not his fault? Did he hit a bump?

The dude makes mistakes. Everyone does. As a rookie in an under developed car, he'd make more. He should be thankful he is not getting a seat.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2009 01:34AM by DaveEllis.

DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>


>
> Not his fault? Did he hit a bump?
>
> The dude makes mistakes. Everyone does. As a
> rookie in an under developed car, he'd make more.
> He should be thankful he is not getting a seat.

thankful for what? For not having to drive a slowpoke car that will be at the back row for 4 races before the team folds up? Oh yeah.

Everyone does makes mistakes, I agree, but what I believe 100% is that he doesnt do them more often than the other driver that everyone is praising here for retaining his seat to fail for the 15th consecutive time. And there is nothing wrong with that one, at low speed, controlled the car well, given that his tyres were completely worn. A good attempt, showing an extremely good reaction (thus avoiding a possible frontal crash) but the curb on his way and the worn tyres didnt helped.

---

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2009 01:45AM by Bruninho.

From frantically claiming Senna's guaranteed the seat to berating the team you claimed he would be signed for. That's some turnaround.

---

Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thankful for what? For not having to drive a
> slowpoke car that will be at the back row for 4
> races before the team folds up? Oh yeah.


Better that than going 'backwards' in another series. Not my words.

I feel a congrats to Rubens is in order, he deserves it, Senna isn't ready, rush him and yu have another Piquet on your hands