Clever solution gives McLaren traction

They will have all changed engines to some degree. So long as it's within the regulations, then it's all good. I've seen nothing to suggest anyone's changed theirs outside. I think it may have been picked up by now...

Next couple of years will be interesting, as I assume (not having read up how this kinetic recovery system will work) engines will have to be changed substantially. Hopefully it will give the Renault guys a chance to catch up, as there'll have been a lot of development going behind the scenes for all the manufacturers.

The whole thimg with renault though goes back to 2006 when they were fighting with ferrari. It was said it was going to hurt them and tbh it has.

Plus renault had the best TC system and they lost that as well for this year.

Renaults problem is not just the engine as RBR have shown. The ferrari engine is fitted into the STR and they seem quite level.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2008 12:54PM by marcl.

Found this link on planetf1 forum,
[www.autosport.com]

FIA gives Hamilton's engine all clear.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2008 01:04PM by BAR#10.

Well with all the new proposals being made i do wonder how long we will have these v8's.
Max wants fuel efficiency right? 20% by 2011 and 50% by 2015, now im not sure how long we are *supposed* to have the v8s, but it certainly will not be for 2015, and I dont think 2011 either.

They will no doubt propose something smaller, probably not the 4cyclinder 1.5litre ones they proposed last time but something deffo smaller than a V8 and 2.5 litres! And by then KERS will be quite nicley advanced so who knows what can happen.

But gav like you, im not exactly sure how the KERS will link with these V8s, i mean with it will they be able to surpass the 19,000rpm limit for the short time they have the extra power ?

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

marcl Wrote:
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> Renaults problem is not just the engine as RBR
> have shown. The ferrari engine is fitted into the
> STR and they seem quite level.

Hmm. That's going against what pretty much everyone else is saying. Since STR got the new car, they've been around the RBR's raw pace, consistently, despite having so little experience with the car. Brundle said he was quite surprised at the difference between the speed of the cars during one of the past 2 races.

Renault themselves said earlier this season their engine was lacking both outright power and low-mid range torque... that's a pretty much the worst combination performance wise.

Not knowing anything about how engines work, I can't even work out how this kinetic thing will work. Is this going to be some push-to-pass style system? Is it essentially going to be a hybrid? How are they going to get that extra power into the system?

I know what you mean but I am looking at the Silverstone pace in quali.

I do agree though in Germany Vettel was a tiny bit faster.

The problem with renault, as in the renault car, is they can not get the power down they dont have good traction and this is costing them everything so I really dont this the engine is down as much as they say it is. Lewis could not get passed piquet in France had the renault been that much down on power he would have been able to.

I think I've read that Renault' car causes much more tyre wear and that'd explain why Alonso is so good over one lap in qualy but loses pace through the race.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

I'll put it another way. It's the weakest engine in F1.

I'm not saying it's 50hp down or anything, but even 10hp is a hell of a lot in such a close pack.

It's not the biggest issue though. Their biggest issue, again, as they've said, is they don't have the torque to pull out of the corners. Sakhir is pretty much conclusive evidence of how poor they were coming out of corners, and led Renault themselves to admit it was a big weakness. It was so bad, many thought Alonso had braked.

You're right that they don't have the traction advantage they've held since 2001, but it was greatly diminished in recent years, and few are suggesting they're much worse than those around them. If it was simply poor traction it would have led them to doing a Ferrari at Silverstone and Monaco, but they were no worse than average.

Piquet seems to make his tyres last though I know he is not as fast at alonso but in france he was better than alonso. Maybe alonso needs to be more careful with his right foot. Lewis got passed alonso twice but never got passed piquet.

I can see your point, but alonso has had a lot of spins this year which for someone with his experience he should not be having even driving as hard as he is.

With ferrari in the rain, i am trying to think of a wet race that kimi or massa have won, i really can not think of any can anyone else? Massa came close last year and was doing ok on Monaco.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2008 02:01PM by marcl.

Altough I completely understand him, he's trying very hard, sometimes even overdriving. It proves he still got the desire for winning.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2008 01:55PM by BAR#10.

BAR#10 Wrote:
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> Altough I completely understand him, he's trying
> very hard, sometimes even overdriving. It proves
> he still got the desire for winning.

just like villeneuve after he won his world championship. alsonso could end up just like him for the next 10 years. lets hope not.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> With ferrari in the rain, i am trying to think of
> a wet race that kimi or massa have won, i really
> can not think of any can anyone else? Massa came
> close last year and was doing ok on Monaco.

Not of the top of my head, but PF1forum is our friend, there's a link posted to all rain affected races
[en.wikipedia.org]

Raikkonen won Belgium 2005 and Massa France 2008.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

I dont count them as proper wet races though like Silverstone, races like that if you know what I mean.

I do, altough there was a bit more rain Spa 05 than in French GP.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Spa 2005 was great by kimi seeing he started so far down and passed so many cars. Kimi is ok in the wet it just seems the ferrari is not, even last year it was not that great.

re: KERS, ive been told they are feeding the recovered energy into a flywheel to help increase power for short bursts (6s a lap)

found the article: [www.racecar-engineering.com]

How it works
Very simply the system comprises a flywheel connected by a continuously variable transmission [CVT] to the drivetrain. If you move the CVT toward a gear ratio that would speed the flywheel up it stores energy. Conversely, if you move toward a ratio that would slow it down then it releases energy. Finally, a clutch separates the drive if the revs move beyond the limits of the system.

also, expect the flywheels to be acheiving around 100,000rpm!

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2008 05:31PM by sasjag.

nice read.
and haha cvt!
i swear that things the devil!
i hope we never have a cvt gearbox in F1! im sure alot of you have seen the williams video of the little test with cvt. it sounds like everything you dont want an F1 car to sound like rolled into a big pile of shite * 1000000000000!! die cvt die! good for karting though if you can get it at a low enough weight lol. And i can imagine the use of cvt in road cars could be quite useful too.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

yesterday alex wurz was interviewed on austrian tv and asked about the mclaren steering wheel and he said that they (honda) examined onboard footage from the last two months and through other sources he didn´t specify they came to the conclusion that mclaren driver can´t change engine mapping via a lever on the steering wheel.

i don´t know if he´s telling the truth but an interesting statement nontheless

I'm a bit confused here, so could someone explain how, in more depth, this mclaren stuff works? How lewis select the desired engine torque for a given corner and given gear ? I mean, say for a hairpin like the one after turn 2 @ magny cours, how much torque he would need to get out quickly and try to avoid excessive wheelspin that would make him spin? he'd be shifting to second gear i guess, but how much torque he'd select, less or more?

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Just a quick comment about KERS and the flywheel technique: only Williams and one other team (can't remember which one - Honda?) are planning on using that next year. All the other teams have developed a different method - though I can't remember what it is right now. No-one seems to have commented over which might be better. There's a feature about it lying around on the ITV-F1 website or their RSS feed somewhere.

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