Can't someone shut Button up?

b-tone Wrote:
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> Upto yet he has'nt had the car to win races so
> he's made the best of what tools he's had.
>
> but he had the second best car last year, yet what
> i guess were the 3rd and 4th best cars managed
> wins :|
>
>
> If any people out there are over rated, its got to
> be Antony Davidson and Vitantonio Liuzzi.
>
> hmm. so button is great but lacks a good car. well
> considering these two don't have a car - good ,
> bad or otherwise - its a bit hard to judge isn't
> it?
> button's had 100 races, and done bugger all
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Button lost his front wing at spa after fisichella made a hash at la source & montoya clipped buttons right rear wheel pitching him into Fisi & jenson had to pit for a new nose cone this combined with 12th place on the starting grid meant he was'nt ever going to be race winning contender at Spa.

After the melee' between sato & webber and the safety car period Kimi benefitted from moving up from 10th to 4th with damaged cars pitting

Schumacher was struggling with the bridgestone tyres and Kimi and JPM both nailed him

DC made no attempt to race Kimi and let him past into 2nd place

Alonso was winning but he had an engine problem and spun on his own oil promoting kimi into first place

Button later retired after a spectacular tyre blow out and crashing into baumgarnter.

So you could say Button had some bad luck and Kimi had some good luck that day.




As for Monaco, Its not very often the pole sitter relinqishes the lead unless he has a reliability problem or a pitstop problem.


Button was all over him at the latter stages and we saw with Mansell & Senna that even with a car a second a lap faster like mansell had, makes no difference at Monaco

Even Mansell could get past.




LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2005 04:18PM by LS..

button's had 100 races, and done bugger all



2000 Williams
2001 Benetton
2002 Renault
2003 BAR
2004 BAR
2005 BAR



Aside from 2004, every other year his car has,nt been really that competitive and incapable of winning races, 2004 was his best year but that was against a strong Ferrari package that won 15 races iirc










LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2005 04:15PM by LS..

Problem is, you need to be in top two cars, or have freak conditions, to even have a chance. Button's done as many races as JYS, but he had a chance cos the driver made more difference, even in the shite Matra

in 2004 when JB or BAR has had a chance to possibly win bad luck has struck. like in Brazil where imo JB would have won.. or Germany...

LS seems to be the only making sence here :|

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

ahh, excuses - the last resort of a loser

____
Tony

yes because he really is goin to win with a broken engine...

you call them excuses i call them facts

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Prediction: BUTTON WILL LOSE WHEREVER HE RACES NEXT SEASON! That is, unless he takes his toys, goes home, and sits out a year pouting like a 6 year old school boy....



"There are some pikeys there at Turn 10 putting tarmac down - what do you think of that?" - Martin Brundle

chet Wrote:
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> in 2004 when JB or BAR has had a chance to
> possibly win bad luck has struck. like in Brazil
> where imo JB would have won.. or Germany...
>
> LS seems to be the only making sence here :|
>
>
>
>


LS is the only person talking sense because he shares your opinion.

IMO b-tone e.t.c. make much more sense see we can all be subjective chet and only gleam on what looks more favourable

Mini Maestro Wrote:
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> IMO b-tone e.t.c. make much more sense see we can
> all be subjective chet and only gleam on what
> looks more favourable
>
>
>
>
>



yeah because this is really constructive in the discussion ** rolls eyes **

Posted by: b-tone (IP Logged)
Date: September 10, 2005 07:09PM


ahh, excuses - the last resort of a loser





rather than trying to be objective about this, your being blinded by your dislike for Button

where does this stem from?

Is it the constant over saturation of him from ITV or maybe everything he says being taken out of context from the media to create a story where other wise there might not be one?

If anything Buttons a victim of his own sucess, the media has gone over the top as they usually do with people they are building up until it gets to the point where people turn against them.

Looks to me like thats whats happened here.









LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

i dont get itv, i know everything he says is out of context, and i used to quite like him.
but now i'm pretty neutral on him. i dont hate him but dont rate him either. although with his flip flopping between teams, his cheating with BAR, and some of the stuff he says do make me dislike him a bit.
he's still done nothing in my eyes to prove himself worthy of being faught over by two teams - albeit mid table ones.
i want williams to do well an di dont htink they will with him.
he's been around for along time, he done bugger all in a bad car (beneton) and not alot more in a good (illegal?) one, so until he does do something i'm not that interested in him.

If anything Buttons a victim of his own sucess,

he hasn't really had any. of the 20 drivers lining up tomoro, statistically he's ranked about 12th. so he's better than the minardi and jordan boys, but not much else.

apart from being british what do you see in him?


____
Tony

Nothing really, obviously i liked him when he made his debut with Williams in 2000 then never really gave him much thought once he left ( as you know i support Williams as a team regardless of whomever drives their cars )

I just feel that your unfairly lambasting a driver for things beyond his control and i'm forced to defend him for some reason that i can't explain

I can assure you its nothing to do with his nationality.




LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

Don't forget in 2004 the Renault was just on par with BAR (or there-abouts). He had NO CHANCE of winning that season.

Who said he would be placed about 12th in this season's drivers rank!? That's taking the piss. Your hate for the guy is sad.

I'm no fan of Michael but I wouldn't say a bad thing about him...

After that race, I've gotta say that Jense drove better than abybody else. If he can carry on with that form, and a better car, then maybe he can become a genuine challenger

i have to say i agree with LS and Chet here and their views.

when Jenson may well win his first grand prix, we should just take mental note of all those criticising him saying hes a waster.... we'll see!

[www.grandprix.com]
HUNGARY 2003
WINNER: ALONSO

''You can say that Alonso did not have the fastest car and that he was lucky that the Williams-BMWs made such appalling starts; you can say that Mark Webber gave victory to Alonso on a plate by holding everyone up but none of that matters because it was Fernando who took the checkered flag. A win is a win and Alonso drove a brilliant and very mature race''

anyone who remembers this, how lucky was alonso! yeah he drove a good race but dependant on a lot of factors that benefitted him more than others.

meh saying that, every race is techincally both luck and skill.

there was no point to that post.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

There comes a point when luck has to be equated with skill. Alonzo is charmed, but charmed because he has himself in a position during the race where he can capitalize on the mistakes and misfortune of others. A driver with less skill might only gain a position or two, but Alonzo is nearly always running towards the front where he can seize these opportunities and take the race.

I dislike Button for the same reason I dislike Webber: they are both overhyped far beyond what their accomplishments to date warrant. Is that their fault? No, not really. But the entire Williams/BAR farce has clearly demonstrated the character flaws inherent in Button's personality. As such I think he will be a liability wherever he races.

I can't help but feel BAR would be instantly more competitive without him and with Rubino taking the #1 seat. The only problem is Williams would be doomed with a team of Button and Webber, and I frankly am a bit sick of McLaren's success, and hoped they might level things out a bit.

At this point I'll remain a Red Bull fan I think. At least DC is an honorable chap to root for....



"There are some pikeys there at Turn 10 putting tarmac down - what do you think of that?" - Martin Brundle

Jagdpanzer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There comes a point when luck has to be equated
> with skill. Alonzo is charmed, but charmed because
> he has himself in a position during the race where
> he can capitalize on the mistakes and misfortune
> of others. A driver with less skill might only
> gain a position or two, but Alonzo is nearly
> always running towards the front where he can
> seize these opportunities and take the race.

No. Luck is luck on its own. A driver in a fast car is going to do a better job than those whos cars aren't as competative. Simple as that.


> I dislike Button for the same reason I dislike
> Webber: they are both overhyped far beyond what
> their accomplishments to date warrant. Is that
> their fault? No, not really. But the entire
> Williams/BAR farce has clearly demonstrated the
> character flaws inherent in Button's personality.
> As such I think he will be a liability wherever he
> races.

You condone team managers for buggering up drivers, though? It works both ways. Thinking about JB's situation. I tend to agree with his current thinking. Frank Williams is much worse.


> I can't help but feel BAR would be instantly more
> competitive without him and with Rubino taking the
> #1 seat. The only problem is Williams would be
> doomed with a team of Button and Webber, and I
> frankly am a bit sick of McLaren's success, and
> hoped they might level things out a bit.

How the flying feck would BAR be more competative without JB?! He's one of the top drivers of his generation regardless of wins (or lack of). BAR need him as much as he needs them.


> At this point I'll remain a Red Bull fan I think.
> At least DC is an honorable chap to root for....

I'm a DC fan, too. What's honorability got to do with anything. It's a business. Business people ae shrewed (is that the right word?) and F1 and its drivers are no different.

You just hate the fella. That is lame...

He's one of the top drivers of his generation regardless of wins (or lack of).

maybe of the webber-button generation, but of the current field theres ten or more drivers better than him - statistically. and his only good season so far has a cheating cloud hanging over it.
button has terrible pr management and is constantly getting misqouted. he should tell the press that if he sees any bs about him then he won't talk to that reporter again. how often do you see ballsed up stories about other drivers?

as dan says A win is a win and jenson has none so far.


I'm a DC fan...

You just hate the fella. That is lame...

if it was a case of just hating him, then why can you like someone (DC) but i cant dislike someone?

____
Tony

My post wasn't directed at you but I see your point. There is disliking someone and hateing them. Anybody who hates a driver they don't even know is sad in my eyes.

Echo1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> No. Luck is luck on its own. A driver in a fast
> car is going to do a better job than those whos
> cars aren't as competative. Simple as that.



Sorry, I disagree. Based on your logic a driver like karthikeyan would be an instant world champ if you place him in the Renault. Only in his dreams is that possible. A bad driver in a fast, good car will STILL find ways to lose. Button is living proof of that.

------------------------------------------------------------------
> You condone team managers for buggering up
> drivers, though? It works both ways. Thinking
> about JB's situation. I tend to agree with his
> current thinking. Frank Williams is much worse.

I said nothing ABOUT team managers. Button signed a contract and gave his word to race for Williams. Where I come from that means he has an OBLIGATION to live up to his word. If you can't see the flaws in Button's character for refusing to do so then theres not much I can do to point them out for you.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> How the flying feck would BAR be more competative
> without JB?! He's one of the top drivers of his
> generation regardless of wins (or lack of). BAR
> need him as much as he needs them.

This is pure comedy and deserves no response.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

> I'm a DC fan, too. What's honorability got to do
> with anything. It's a business. Business people
> ae shrewed (is that the right word?) and F1 and
> its drivers are no different.


Honor has everything to do with it, as Button will find much to his chagrin when he becomes a social pariah in the paddock and essentially unemployable. Who would want him knowing he could potentially worm his way out of a contract and knowing how he trashes his potential teammates and employers in the press? 1 or 2 more typical seasons from Button, ala a pole position here and there followed up by a few meaningless points gathered over a season and he will be yesterday's news. He ain't a kid anymore and there are already up and coming drivers on the scene who might just take a job from him in a year or two....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> You just hate the fella. That is lame...

Never mentioned hate. I said I disliked him. Hey, you root for Zsolt Baumgartner or anybody else you wish, Button included. I prefer drivers with a proven reputation who will keep their word when they give it....




"There are some pikeys there at Turn 10 putting tarmac down - what do you think of that?" - Martin Brundle



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2005 09:43AM by Jagdpanzer.

Sorry, I disagree. Based on your logic a driver like karthikeyan would be an instant world champ if you place him in the Renault. Only in his dreams is that possible. A bad driver in a fast, good car will STILL find ways to lose. Button is living proof of that.

Erm... No! You're taking it out of context. If you didn't understand what I meant then I ain't going to explain it to you.

I said nothing ABOUT team managers. Button signed a contract and gave his word to race for Williams. Where I come from that means he has an OBLIGATION to live up to his word. If you can't see the flaws in Button's character for refusing to do so then theres not much I can do to point them out for you.

But I don't hear you complain about FW or EJ screwing over drivers. So, in your eyes it must be ok. Obligation? When team bosses show they can follow their obligations. I'm sure the drivers will follow.


This is pure comedy and deserves no response.....

Just like your imature attitude towards JB.

Honor has everything to do with it, as Button will find much to his chagrin when he becomes a social pariah in the paddock and essentially unemployable. Who would want him knowing he could potentially worm his way out of a contract and knowing how he trashes his potential teammates and employers in the press? 1 or 2 more typical seasons from Button, ala a pole position here and there followed up by a few meaningless points gathered over a season and he will be yesterday's news. He ain't a kid anymore and there are already up and coming drivers on the scene who might just take a job from him in a year or two....

No. Honour means jack. They all see JB as a good racer. FW wouldn't be fighting for him otherwise.

Which team mate did he trash? Has an excellent relationship with JV, gets along ok with TS. Same with Trulli and Ralf, in fact. You're talking some bollocks, methinks.:D

Never mentioned hate. I said I disliked him. Hey, you root for Zsolt Baumgartner or anybody else you wish, Button included. I prefer drivers with a proven reputation who will keep their word when they give it....

Reread your posts. It sounds like hate to me. I'm no fan of MS but do you hear me diss the fella? And, how can JB not be proven? He's proven his worth on many occasions. I bet FW didn't tell him that they'd be no works engine for '06, did he? Williams is a midfield team. Who'd want to drive for them?