FERRARI - WTF!!!!

notice there is no reply to this alex,ive debated this one many times but it always seems to be michaels fault,again if ms did the same as dc the anti schumis would be up in arms claiming michael took him out deliberate.

it doesn't matter what dc could see,his pit wall would of told him michael was there and to lift off,strange they didn't.

DC knew the score. He knew where he was going to lift off. He knew where Schumacher would be. Schumacher didn't know where he was going to lift off. After all, why should Coulthard chose to suddenly lift off at that particular point, having not done so for six laps


have you seen how much of a view you have from a wing mirror on a f1 car? added to the fact that there's a huge rooster tail coming off the back off DC's car, how do you come to the point of view that DC knew where MS was?

the accident happened on lap 24 and MS was'nt trailing DC for 6 laps at all, jean todt went up to ron dennis and asked him to let MS pass DC,

DC pulled across to the inside of the track, way off the race line, and MS hit him, where you keep getting this idea that DC did it delibrately is confusing me






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

I never even suggested DC did it on purpose, although to be quite honest I wouldn't be surprised.

My point is that Coulthard's actions were not appropriate. I don't know where you think the racing line is on that section of the track but I can assure you that Coulthard was slap-bang on it.

have you seen how much of a view you have from a wing mirror on a f1 car?

Yes.

how do you come to the point of view that DC knew where MS was?

Even in the wet with spray, I very much doubt you'd miss a Ferrari in your mirrors. Besides, Schumacher had been there for several laps, and DC would have seen in any slow corner that Schumacher was there. So really, slowing down on the racing line, when he knew full well that he was hardly visible due to the spray, is pretty damn stupid.




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

something that has been over looked in this topic, is the way MS totally overeacted when he got of the ferrari, the way he stomped down to the mclaren pit and tried to get at DC was shameful, and to then shout at him " you were trying to fuckin kill me" after a accident, is appalling


its funny but i don't remember Damon hill in 94 or Villeneuve in 97 reacting in this inappropriate manner, infact it was quite the opposite, both drivers held there composure well despite MS's intentions






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

did ms have a go at jv after his start line antics at suzuka in 97,jacques veered twice at schumacher at the start which was a clear attempt to take him off the road and with 20 other cars behind it was highly dangerous,jv was racing under appeal and wasn't going to score and he tried to make sure michael didn't.



spa 98,does john todt need to have to go to the mclaren pitwall and ask them to let ms through,arn't they watching the race on their screens,can't they see he is holding up ms,or were they they hoping something like this would happen,i bet mclaren wern't dissapointed, with mika out at the start ms would of led the championship for the first time.there were far better places to let him through.


ms had built up a 37 second lead in heavy rain,though i suppose he gambled on a wet set up again,apparently thats why he won spain 96 for having a wet set up in the pissing rain.
anyway,ill enter some text from 'the quest for redemption'.for corner after corner,coulthard held schumacher up.he had several opportunities to let the ferrari past in safety,the best coming at the 30 mph la source hairpin,where he ran wide and,seeing schumacher on the inside of him,he could easily have delayed picking up the throttle,thus allowing the leader to pass,but he chose not to do that and instead schumacher stared into a ball of spray at over 100mph.and wondered what coulthard was up to.




the two cars came out of a left hander and onto the short downhill straight which led to the challenging pouhon corner.but something was wrong.coulthard did not pick up the throttle as he shifted up from second to third gear.in fact he was using just 56 per cent of the throttle compared to schumacher,who was accelerating hard with his foot flat on the throttle,as was the norm.


now suddenly the mclaren was travelling at just 160km/h compared to the 220km/h of the ferrari.
this was coulthard's way of letting schumacher past and it made no sense at all.although he was well over to the right of the track,he hadn't moved of the racing line,which is why schumacher didn't read the situation.



james allen was asked about this, and he said someone close to coulthard,my guess is martin brundle admitted that coulthard had made a terrible mess of it.

oh and wasn't it coulthards great driving that caused the pile up in the first place

Actually, DC wasnt to blame for the incident at the start, from what I remember. He was 'nerfed' (LOL, I love that word) from behind, sending him into a spin...from which it is impossible to avoid at that speed.

From what I've read (interviews etc) drivers can hear the crowd if they cheer loudly...so surely DC could hear another engine nearby?

Also I'm sure his race engineer was telling him MS was just behind. I'm convinced he lifted off with malicious intentions. I mean, why lift off to 56% throttle coming out of a corner, that's just asking for an accident.

Chris J



'I reserve the right to contradict myself' - Richey Edwards, 1994.

did ms have a go at jv after his start line antics at suzuka in 97,jacques veered twice at schumacher at the start which was a clear attempt to take him off the road

if your going to take part in a debate mark then at least talk sensibily, and what exclusive inside information do have to back up these remarks?


typical MS fans again, you and alex seem to think that because MS has no qualms about delibetrately and cynical taking out an opponent in a dangerous manner, that every other driver thinks the same way


james allen was asked about this, and he said someone close to coulthard,my guess is martin brundle admitted that coulthard had made a terrible mess of it


LOL!!! seriously, you expect us to believe something that james allen might have said?
we all know how unbiased james allen is towards MS now don't we? after all he wrote the quest for demption about MS that your quoting,


he was well over to the right of the track,he hadn't moved of the racing line,which is why schumacher didn't read the situation.[/.]

i'm afraid if we're going to continue to discuss this threadm then i hope you will not take this the wrong way, but can you go and watch the actual incident please.

its as plain as the nose on alain prosts face that DC is as close to the inside track as possible with out driving on the grass,






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

OL!!! seriously, you expect us to believe something that james allen might have said

sorry my mistake, i mis read what you said, but still to believe anything about an incident with MS coming from james allen is frankly going to biased toward him.






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

Yo Sup

"Even in the wet with spray, I very much doubt you'd miss a Ferrari in your mirrors"

but you couldnt miss a big mclaren right infront of you?

" never even suggested DC did it on purpose, although to be quite honest I wouldn't be surprised."

well that is quite ric coming from an MS fan. How can u make someone drive into you? Really? Cos im sure it has lots to do with the driver behind too

"oh and wasn't it coulthards great driving that caused the pile up in the first place"

correct mark. Irvine admitted live on UK TV to millions of ppl on TFI friday that he touched the back on DCs car, and if you watch the video you can see the tyre mark n the Ferraris wing!




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

"but you couldnt miss a big mclaren right infront of you?"

Yes, you could. The waterspray is so intense that you'd be lucky to see anything. You could still hear the McLaren, but how could MS know he wasnt accelerating fully? No one's reactions are fast enough to avoid that.

Chris J



'I reserve the right to contradict myself' - Richey Edwards, 1994.

dc has a pit crew he knew michael was there why didn't he let him through instead of holding him up,to back up the jv incident well watch the start he veers left then right at ms you can only move once jv moved twice

i agree you can only see so much in wet conditions,but the crew on the wall knew ms was trying to pass,how on earth did ms know after following ds that he wouldn't accelerate out of pouhon corner


i have again watched japan 97 jv does moves twice across the track at ms, he even drove slow at the start hoping someone would have a go at ms,why then his sudden change of pace once irvine was leading

i agree you can only see so much in wet conditions,but the crew on the wall knew ms was trying to pass,how on earth did ms know after following ds that he wouldn't accelerate out of pouhon corner


i think the only thing that could be put in place of blame or DC was that he did'nt know where MS would try to over take him, the only definate way would have been for ron dennis and jean todt to agree at a certain corner where this would take place.

you'd think in those sort of conditions that is what they would have done instead of leaving it to chance

maybe that is why when DC lifted off MS was'nt aware of it and hence he got caught out, so maybe the proportion of the blame can lay at the doors of the team principles for not aranging this, after all MS had a conmmanding lead, so to wait for a few corners more would'nt have made much difference




i have again watched japan 97 jv does moves twice across the track at ms, he even drove slow at the start hoping someone would have a go at ms,why then his sudden change of pace once irvine was leading


a F1 drivers job is to drive at the limit, to suggest he drove slow at the begining could be down to excesive wheel spin or bogged down by the revs at the time the lights went off.

to keep suggest that drivers intentionally invite accidents is incredulous to say the least,


where on earth do you get these ridiculous notions from?






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

"to keep suggest that drivers intentionally invite accidents is incredulous to say the least,"

exactly. Mark, why do you say jv would take out ms? OK JV wouldnt get any points, but he's not a cheat. He's a racer (se Austria 2002) Ithink your idea that he wanted to take out MS is absurd.


DC should have been like any other backmarker, when being laped, let the car through. If other drivers who were lapped could manage it, why couldnt he?

Chris J



'I reserve the right to contradict myself' - Richey Edwards, 1994.

Yo Sup

""but you couldnt miss a big mclaren right infront of you?"

Yes, you could. The waterspray is so intense that you'd be lucky to see anything"

EXACTLY!! If MS couldnt see the big McLaren infront of him, how can u expect DC to see a Ferrari through the spray and tose ting little mirrors?




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

Please read all of that post. I explained that drivers can hear other engines, so dc could hear MS nearby, and shouldve known better than to slow down so fast.

Chris J



'I reserve the right to contradict myself' - Richey Edwards, 1994.

to keep suggest that drivers intentionally invite accidents is incredulous to say the least

Well here's a turn up for the books, eh? Therefore, LS, we can assume that you won't be accusing Schumacher of such tactics any longer.

if your going to take part in a debate mark then at least talk sensibily, and what exclusive inside information do have to back up these remarks?

Maybe the same exclusive inside information that you seem to use when accusing Schumacher of his startline chops. And you call Schumacher fans hypocrites!

i'm afraid if we're going to continue to discuss this thread then i hope you will not take this the wrong way, but can you go and watch the actual incident please.

its as plain as the nose on alain prosts face that DC is as close to the inside track as possible with out driving on the grass,

Well I was always under the impression that Prost's nose was quite a striking feature, but going by what you're saying, it must have shrunk...




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

If you look at the position of Schumacher's car - which (no disputing) is on the racing line - we can clearly see that Coulthard's McLaren is at maximum 12 inches to the right - he is still well on the racing line. Well, LS, I'm looking at the video, and how you can argue that he's off the line I don't know.



And at this moment it's too late. Schumacher dart's out to the left with lighting reflexes but it's too late. The McLaren cruising on the racing line on an extremely fast part of the track has caught him out.



Now just in case there's still any dispute over the the racing line and the amount of spray, take a look at this shot. The McLaren is hardly visible at this point. However, what is clearly visible is the racing line that has appeared on the track.



I have highlighted the racing line in this shot. You cannot argue that DC is following this line exactly. And, believe it or not, both DC and MS are in this shot too.



This is the point of impact. You can see Michael's left front wheel flying off over the spray. However, you can hardly see either car. Only the front of the McLaren. Imagine what it was like following him, let alone being 200 feet up in a helicopter. Again, the racing line is clearly visible, and Coulthard is on it.



Just reinforcing my point with this shot, because you can see the line clearer than ever here. There is no argument against the fact that DC was on the racing line.



And finally, now the two cars have slowed after the impact, we can see both of them. Now if Coulthard had let Schumacher through on a slower part of the circuit, then there would have been no visibility problems ...etc. But he choses to lift off on the racing line on an extremely fast curve. Nice one, DC. Then he goes and complains when back-markers hold him up.

Another interesting point to notice is the lap times at the bottom of the first few shots.

Schumacher's fastest: 2'03"766

Coulthard's fastest: 2'11"548 - *And ppl say he's good in the wet!!!*

Now, look at the last lap. Schumacher has obviously been held up badly by DC. And it wasn't just last lap. Schumacher's pace has slowed to that of DC, indicating that he has been stuck behind him. The End.




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS