Nice race, apart from the FIA

Yo Sup

"So how about you stop moaning"

I stop moaning when MS stops cheating

What bout Warm-up then?




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

Yo Sup

I wonder why i dont feel sory for him here.............






Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

Look, it is right that M$ didn't make the decision to give JPM a drive-thru penalty. And he probably didn't even have the slightest say in the matter. BUT that is NOT the whole story!

The point is question here is that M$ GAVE jpm the blame, saying that he left him no room, and THAT is clearly a lie! And do not give me any maybe it is not a lie on purpose talk, or M$ might have seen it differently. No one could have seen it better than him. Look at the pic above. The one that is excactly at the moment of impact. You can see it because M$ right front tyre is slightly elevated from the track. Yet it is still far from OFF (on the grass) the track. There can be some dispute, but in the end, there can be no doubts.

It seems that there is room to go around, not much but there IS room. And there was defintely no need to RAM anyone. M$ just had to decide between holding on (ramming) or holding back (losing the lead, which he had lost already). He gambled on the wrong horse, thats all. And he did it in ERROR because he was BEHIND not in front, as can clearly be seen from the pictures before the turn, and the t-cam view from JPM. M$ planted his left tyre between JPM's tyre and bargeboard. So there can be no doubts, that is but as to WHY M$ would give JPM the blame...

I am pretty sure that has to do with those types of rulings that favour M$. As I said, I do not think that M$ has a hand in those rulings. They are made without conspiracy and/or bribery like many would like to claim. I am more certain that it is the awe and HALO effect that gathers around extremely talented and successful drivers (and any that kind of people in general, not only drivers). Its just like with Senna. People are so blinded by the awesome amount of skill and acheivement, that they simply cannot fathom that said person does something wrong. THAT is the reason why M$ time and time again lucks out on the FIA rulings. It is human error but not on the part of M$, but of the FIA stewards.

As to whether or not M$ is AWARE of this halo, and that there is a slip-margin which he can play within, that others cannot, that is an entirely different question. I think that he is. And that is why he layed the blame on JPM, and that is also why M$ hesitated so much when he was asked if he thought the FIA ruling was fair. He hesitated because he IS aware of the HALO, and he does not quite want to lose it. And shedding light on its existance, does put it at risk. If anyone should have had a drive-thru penalty (which I do not think either should have had) it should have been M$.

That is why people are screaming Alex.

On the other hand I can understand you position. You are constantly under siege, and to be honest some of the shots taken are of very poor, even appaling quality, and the forum would certainly be better off without them. But the fact that everyone (or at least some, which we all know the names of) turns black into white, does not give you the right to turn white into black.

Hands down, your hero is a superior driver - one of a kind, no doubt about that. But that does not mean that you cannot strike a balance between admiration and a critical stance (when needed). As I have tried here that one can also adopt a stance of balanced and nuanced critique, instead of "no holds barred combat".

At least thats the story from my point of view.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Sorry Ellis2kX, that I didn't notice that you signed off MSN. I was too caught up in typing this.

Ah well! Just goes to show that I really mean what I said.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

I've now seen the video onboard Montoya into the first corner, and I have to say, I still think you guys are taking the piss.

_________________________________________

Here we can see that Montoya is edging ahead.



Now he starts to turn in. It's a wide track, but he is heading for the apex.



Now I'm sorry but that pic below proves that he did not leave room.



Both JPM and MS begin to understeer slightly - expected



There is absolutely no way that JPM accounted for any understeer into turn one.



_________________________________________

Now I haven't seen footage onboard Michael yet, so I may still cahnge my opinion, but it's unlikely. I think that...

a) Montoya did not leave enough room into the first corner
b) Schumi did carry too much speed into the first corner. Understeer is expected, but JPM did not account for it. JPM himself understeered.




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

Thats a good arguement alex, and i now agree that Montoya did not leave enough room into the first corner, and did not really account for MS who was clearly going to have understeer. I would love to se the cam from schumi's car.

Ironically, this picture you've tried to use against Schumacher instead goes to show how little room JPM did actually leave the Ferrari. Schumacher is bumping right over the kerb in this pic, and is clearly looking at JPM's Williams, and probably thinking "is he going to give me room or what?". It was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I can't form a final opinion until i see onboard footage from Schumi, and there isn't any available yet.

Montoya's attitude was clearly vastly changed in the press conference. Over the radio he said the f*cking idiot drove into me - perhaps he thought about it a little.




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

"Schumi did carry too much speed into the first corner. Understeer is expected, but JPM did not account for it. JPM himself understeered."

Why shouls JPM have to account for MS carrying too much speed into turn 1? JPM had the racing line, was ahead of Schumi, MS should have backed off, not underbraked and therefore understeered.
MS was at fault here, even if JPM did'nt leave enough room here, MS should realise that he might have to lose position on track for benefit in the long run...if he is such a thinking driver, this should have been considered.
It will be called a racing incident, because its just not clear whose fault it was, all we can give is our opinions.
Chris J

It will be called a racing incident, because its just not clear whose fault it was, all we can give is our opinions.

Agreed.




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

Yo Sup

This DOES show how much room is left Alex



this is actaully the point of impact. The Ferrari wheel is NOT on the kerb, it is the air, which is what happened when they touched

There was clearly enough room into turn 1 but MS took it too fast!!! Ben Edwards agreed, and the pit reported said

"JPM has been given a drive through penatly, i find it a bit unfair, but maybe its got something to do with the driver who hit him?"

MS was way to fast going in the corner and braked way to late

MS braked too late to try to take back the lead he already lost!

Get DigitalF1+ for the next race as the highlights of Sepang will be shown at the Brazilian GP!

MS cheats all the time and gets away with it. He did it twice before the race had started in sepang, then he made a mistake and understeered into JPM. (he allows ONE mistake per year remember?)

IMO The sport would be better off without him.

No prbs bout not seeing me sign of Morbid, its essy done!

Dry through penalty! What for? Of thats right, he challanged MS, which is clrealy agaisnt the rules!!!




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

I subscribe to that point of view. It is a shame that there has been no pictures from Schumi's t-cam, or from the chopper. That would settle the blame in ernest.

I still hold that the blame rests on MS shoulders. But the exercise is quite pointless, since its such a marginal case. It may be an error of judgement, but a side from who ever did it - it wasn't grave (like Irvine and Burti at Spa), nor of the kind that can be called premeditated (eerm... other first corner incidents). The accident itself should have gone under the heading [/b]racing incident[/b]. And something like this just had to happen sooner or later anyway.

And it has been in the cards since Nürburgring last year. MS has a very good reason to let JPM, like all the other drivers, be scared off by his aggressive (and somewhat controversial) opening strategy. And it was equally important for JPM to tell MS that he is not going to intimidated into handing him the automatic lead when they are going 1-2. If anything, it was a mental battle, a battle between strength of wills of who has to repsect who.

The FIA just botched it up.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

should make for a intersting season now that a marker has been set down by JPM.

MS now knows that he can't rely on his reputation with JPM to simply intimidate him,

expect some more clashes in the very near future, but hopefully this time the stewards will not interfere this time






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

True, Morbid, I agree.
All I want is a non biased comentator...Murray (sorry to say this, guys) was very pro schumacher, James Allen is the same! I'd like to see them be as neutral as Martin Brundle, he may be DC's manager, but he shows no bias.
"IMO The sport would be better off without him." I don't like him either, but we doneed him, or where would the headlines be? I think that's why Bernie supports him...he's a businessman he knows the importance of the marketing mix; promotion is a big part of it, and column inches is free publicity.
That's how he seems to get away with 'racing incidents". Also Ferrari are the most popular team, he's the most popular driver, its likely some stewards are a little biased, consciously so or sub conciously.
Chris J

Yo Sup

"but hopefully this time the stewards will not interfere this time"

no, if MS car has even a scratch there will be hell to pay.




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

ms is a f**king wanker who is sly enough to convince people that it was a "racing incident" F**king bullshit.

oh and....

montoya said in the press conference that he was "pissed off"
TOO RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yo Sup

well said Jordangp!!!




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

Hm, I think we would be better off if we reserved the insults for drivers that really do something horrible. For once we have actually created a discussion, that revolves about something with MS in it, and that has degraded into a totally polarized black and white picture. Lets keep it that way. I am really, really tired of the "Schumi - Yupiee! Yeah!" and "Schumi - Booh!Hiss!" threads.

And to be honest, how fun would it be for us non-Schumists (whatever your preferred driver is, apart from Barichello of course) if there were no Schumi fans or no Schumi at all? Would the move at Brazil last year have been even half as exciting if JPM pulled it of on someone else?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

"... and that has degraded into a totally polarized black and white picture..."?

Ermm... Sorry for the typo.

that should have been "has NOT degraded", of course.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

"And to be honest, how fun would it be for us non-Schumists (whatever your preferred driver is, apart from Barichello of course) if there were no Schumi fans or no Schumi at all? Would the move at Brazil last year have been even half as exciting if JPM pulled it of on someone else?"

Thats a good point, if JPM had pulled off that move on, say, Frentzen, yes it woul have been a good move but would we remeber it.........no, i don think so.

Wether you like him or you hate him, without MS we couldnt have these great discussions

This thread has no rights to live no more. Yeah! It mast be killed!
Montoya - must GO HOME to C.A.R.T. !!!