I know this will start an argument but....

because of this silly 10 seconds a lap nonsense sorry my mistake i meant in reference to 11 laps ( alcohol haze i'm afraid)


i also notice you did'nt leap to MS's defence in this post, hmm wonder why not?


how many times did dc watch mikas back in 98 99 quite a few cause he couldn't put a championship together himself in the best car on the grid.

so what your saying is by having a team mate watch your back your relying on someone else to help because your not good enough to win on your own?

interesting admission there, look how many times MS has had a team mate riding shotgun and moveing over to give him extra points he was incapable of getting himself






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

"I'd like to know what Ellis and LS think about Senna"

senna was without a doubt a truely gifted driver, perhaps one of a kind

i readily admit he was not without fault and you can see his ruthlessness in battle during a race.

but senna never had a subserviant teammate, he and team mate prost both had EQUAL equipment.

at the time of joining mclaren in 88 prost already had a few title under his belt and for such a new comer to come into a team like that was a daunting prospect, but senna's brilliance shone out and he won the title in 98


Senna also displayed his brilliance in a car with out any modern gizmo's fitted to the cars, he had manual gear stick to cope with, no traction control, no brilliant tactician to help him in no winning race scenario.


MS was quoted as saying that he'd could'nt go back to driving a car without the modern day gizmo's and he likes the advancement of technology,


senna never had the technical advantage that MS has enjoyed

sure the mclaren had traction control and active ride during 93 but the engine was a crappy ford,

but i see what your saying alex but i don't think they can be compared really.

different era's and all that, but you must admit that those cars from 88 to 91 that senna drove to 3 world title were more difficult to drive than these modern day race craft.






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

at the time of joining mclaren in 88 prost already had a few title under his belt and for such a new comer to come into a team like that was a daunting prospect, but senna's brilliance shone out and he won the title in 98

DOH! i meant 88, damn beer






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

senna had a crappy ford engine in 93,i wonder if this is the same crappy ford that benetton had in 94 in which ms won the championship,if michaels victories where down to equal engine power in 95 they both had the renault,well in 96 with benetton and williams both using the same engine and benetton the reigning constructors champions,why were alesi and berger both behind ms in the 96 championship,both are experienced drivers and in an as good as a williams car for 96 far better than the ferrari how come ms beat them.

This doesn't have much to do with the whole debate, but it fits in this thread.

I was sitting in Modern Studies today, and couldn't help but notice the words MS Sucks written and engraved onto the edges of a few of the desks.

It seems everyone hates him!

Bazza

senna had a crappy ford engine in 93,i wonder if this is the same crappy ford that benetton had in 94 in which ms won the championship



you can plainly see that the ford engine was underpowered in 93 in mclarens case and they did'nt want it anyway they went on record saying they did'nt want to use the same engine as benneton because benetton had the latest version.

all modern gizmo's were banned at the end of 93 and again its well known that the benneton was the best team to come out of the new regulations, they were plainly head and shoulders above everyone else during the preseason testing, the 94 power plant was so good with the torque and that was a reason given by MS when he brought his car home when it was stuck in 5th gear at spain or what ever race it was.the benneton was faster than the renault power plant and it was only senna's brilliance that gave him 3 poles before the accident, so thats why MS won his first world title






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

remebrer alsow that rb was thare



Senna the Man... the King... the God!

L.S. - Calm down, i fear for the safety of your fingers when you are older. At this rate you will develop arthritis by 40 and your fingers will fall off by 50 :S

You're totally right about Senna - but the fact is, you cannot use that against Schumacher. Schumacher has raced in a more modern era - and he can't help the fact that the cars have more performance improving gadgets. The fact is, that he has beaten the rest of the field to a championship four times now, in those cars. He is the best of his era. Like Senna was the best of his era.

who said this? your hero murray walker

Murray Walker also said this about Michael...

"In the dry he is superb, but his wet-weather skills are awesome, and his superiority in the appauling conditions of Barcelona in 1996 is one of the greatest demonstrations of sheer virtuosity I hajve ever seen... the greatest driver of his era, and one of the very greatest of all time. Altogether a class act."

Now I shouldn't think any fan, or anybody in the Formula 1 world knows as much about F1 as Murray Walker, and I for am glad that I'm in total agreement with him. I still to this day wonder what goes through your mind when you read comments such as that, and from Stirling Moss and Martin Brundle - after all, you never say.

AND LISTEN TO THIS

Murray again talking of Schumacher (before 2001)...

"The results speak for themselves, and they are all the more impressive for the fact that, in F1, he has never been in the best car. Heaven help us if he is ever in a car that matches his talent..." - LOL

What is ironic is that it really is a fact that he is today's top man. And he has been since Senna's tragic death. And will be until he retires. It isn't really a matter for argument. But opinions are what discussion forums are all about.




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

L.S. - Calm down

Wow, for once it isn't me getting hot-headed




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

Murray is a smart man
but do you remember 2000 spa, hakkinen spun and then that glorius pasing... i can't remember someting like that from shumi, can u?



Senna the Man... the King... the God!

i'm a murray fan as well alex to suggest that just because he says things about MS does'nt make him a true great, its just opinion

he also speaks in high regard of fangio and senna and mansell too


Wow, for once it isn't me getting hot-headed


i wrote all my posts in calm manner, why should i get hotheaded by an opinion that i don't agree with?






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

but do you remember 2000 spa, hakkinen spun and then that glorius pasing... i can't remember someting like that from shumi, can u?

Does anybody else have anything to add to this? Right, I'll begin...

Schumacher lost that race (Spa 00) completely because of his tyres. The Ferrari had a terrible problem with the shredding of tyres, and if you notice, Schumacher was forced to run along the wet right hand side of the back-straight in order to cool his tyres. Hakkinen was therefore able to catch Michael at an astonishing rate, because his tyres were working perfectly - it happens to everyone you see. I wouldn't normally mention this, but it just so happens that everyone else is slagging Schumi off for having a tyre advantage, and implying that his skill had nothing to do with his victory.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Hakkinen's pass at Spa in 2000 was one of the best ever. But I'm not pathetic enough to condemn Hakkinen and say that he had a whole season of luck in that one race. He drove fantastically well, and deserved to win. Just like Schumacher two weeks ago...




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

who said this? your hero murray walker

yeah that post was inreference to this


Belgium GP - 1 minute in the lead after 6 racing laps? Must be the tyresYou're correct, sorry it wasn't 6 laps. It was 11 laps. That's only 5 seconds a lap unfortunately. 5 seconds a lap. LOL. And you still can't accept tha the gy is head and shoulders above the rest[/i]


i explianed why this gap was pulled out, well i looked up this race and this 5 seconds a lap is due to the front runners being on goodyears full wets and MS being on the intermediates, hence the 5 second performance advantage.

this also interesting "ross brawn made all the right decisions about setup and tyres.
He had the race won before it started, whilst most of the rest were to flounder around trying to find the right rubber"

i notice how you did'nt say anything about this and resorted to posting other murray instead, how convient






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

just in case ms doesn't win on sunday i'll prepare my excuses about tyres.it seems if he wins it's cause of the tyres but if he loses it's cause he's beaten by a better driver he just can win.

it seems if he wins it's cause of the tyres

you can point to that all you want, MS has admitted it himself that it gives him a definate advantage so why can't you?






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

not as much as you make out,it seems thats the only reason he won according to you,

i am pointing out the real reasons why MS was dominant, and the major factor was tyres

i posted this today no mate, the point was raised about the tyres because that was the main catalyst for his win, we all know that you have to still be a good driver to win a race and theres plenty of them in F1 given th right package, but he had a clear advantage which he admits too,


so you can see i said you have to be a good driver,






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

You're right, the tyres were an important factor but Schumacher still won the race! As I've said, you need a fast driver to win in a fast car - and that 20 second advantage was by no means all down to the tyres.

Oh, and the first pictures have come through from Malaysia, and it appears Ferrari have something up their sleeve....



Obviously they realised they were wasting 35 million a year on Schumacher. They don't need him any more.




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

LOL very good alex






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat