I know this will start an argument but....

I forgive your misunderstanding




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Yo Sup

"If Schumacher was a cheat then so was Senna"

I have never once defended Senna about that, i dont remember enough bout Senna to say that, i have seen many many vidoes of his brilliance but not too many of accidents.

OT but Trulli didnt have a traction control problem, renault calim he spun on oil left behind from Jensons car after the T1 accident, so still not trullis fault, and no fault ot renault, just unlucky.

I belive Trulli and Fisichella are both faster than MS, and Alesi also said Fisichella was faster.

"But I feel that had Schumi gone for a pass, it would have ended in tears as Trulli would have mis-judged the situation"

Yeah, we see it end in tears when MS misjudges the situation, oh no wait, he doesnt misjudge it, he doesnt it delibratly

"but I think Benoldi was more dangerous than Trulli, his car was slower compared to the car behind (ie Renault/Ferrari, Arrows/McLaren) and the track more dangerous (narrow, no run off, the tunnel etc)."

Thats another point DC justified his comments, saying he thought he dangerously blocked him, he didnt say he had no right to be there, he said he thought he blocked him dangerously. MS didnt mantion dangerous, he just said that Trulli was inappropritatly driving infront of him. Theres a difference between dangerous driving and inappropriate driving. But its not inappropriate for Trulli to be there was thats racing, but it is dangerous to block like Bernoldi did and in you opinion trulli did. But MS didnt complain bout Trulli being dangerous, he said he shouldnt be there!! Thats wrong!!!. DC said it was dangerous, he didnt say Bernoldi had no right to race.

Actually i have never liked Bernoldi even before Monaco and hes by far one of the slowest drivers on the grid and Verstappen should be driving that arrows, not Bernoldi




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

Yeah, Ellis your right about Benoldi. But I think he is sponsored so that's what matters in some teams, no fault of their own, F1 is an expensive business and they need all the money they can get.
In my opinion, Trulli is not faster than MS, though I think Fissi is at least equal...I just hope he gets to prove it soon, Jordan isn't the right team for title hopes. Trulli is great in qualifying, but does go backwards in the race.
Chris J

Yo Sup

Bernoldi is sponsored by Red Bull, thats why its on the arrows and thats the only reason hes in F1 :@

I think Trulli/Fisichella/Kimi/DC?JV are all just as good if not better than MS




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

I agree with JV and Fissi, and DC sometimes.
Chris J

if you think some of these drivers are equal or better than ms where r they in the race,ms has won plenty of races in inferior and i meen bloody awful cars, so if the drivers you mention are at least his equal why arn't they dragging there cars to victory,ms doesn't need the best car to win he has proved it countless times,i think you need to watch a few races from the early to mid 90's and see the sheds he had to drive,all i can say is how many times was ms outqualified by his team mate in the same car,brundle,verstappen and herbert never did,eddie e about 2/3 times rubens about the same,that says more about the driver not the car.your statement willing to forgive all mankind except schumacher is pathetic,you may as well put senna in it,if you think ms is arrogant senna thought the track was his and his alone and no-one better get in his way,if you've never seen him over the years as i have he was bloody ruthless,and i find it ridiculous u can criticise ms after all its senna that he followed

"your statement willing to forgive all mankind except schumacher is pathetic" JOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKEJOKE!!!!!
I can say it some more if you like. In case you don't understand the concept of a joke (or paragraphs) then maybe you should ask someone to explain them...I don't have a dictionary to hand, sorry.

"i meen bloody awful cars" the benettons were not awful, neither were the ferraris...perhaps inferior to the williams, but not awful.
On to team mates: Martin Brundle. I like him as a comentator but he was'nt up to much as a driver really, so congratulations Mr Schumacher for being able to beat him!
Herbert. He had his moments, but no real competion there.
Irvine. Schumacher team ownership had set in by now...Irvine had about 2 mechanics and a porter to help him with car setup, MS about 60...work it out. (EXAGGERATION)
Barrichello. A good driver, but see above Irvine comment, to a lesser degree.
Senna...a different era, such tactics were more tolerated, in today's safety comes first world of F1 it should not be tolerated, and that's why I have a problem with his tactics, and any driver who uses them.
Chris J

aw, crap. I've messed up the width, sorry guys.
Chris J

Yo Sup

"your statement willing to forgive all mankind except schumacher is pathetic"

right, it is a joke and the origional said "an american" instead of schumacher so i changed it from racist to a joke

Also it doesnt say forgive, it says love.

Get your facts right if your going to argue. I didnt actaully read all your post cos my eyes to begin to hurt




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

schumachers benneton was underpowered compared to the williams in 94,it had the ford engine nowhere near the best that year,the two races that michael was banned in 94,in his absence the two cars qualified between the sixth and eight row,ms was usually top two that says more about the driver than the car.if you honestly don't think the ferarris from 96 onwards were bad then you must have a strange opinion of good,the fact that michael beat both benneton drivers in 96 who stuck with the renault engine the same as williams and who where current world champions,so if ms only won in 95 cause the renault was the top engine and was equal to the williams how can you explain two experienced drivers in alesi and berger being beaten by ms in a lets say very mediocre ferrari.that car suffered 6 retirements on the run ms engine blowing on parade laps drive shafts falling off in the pits finishing one race with a seized front brake,i think you need to watch a few races from the mid 90s and then tell me those cars were not that bad.

ms has won plenty of races in inferior and i meen bloody awful cars,

yeah they were that awful johhny herbert won 2 races in a bennetton






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

and both races he won damon took ms out,if it was the other way round i'm certain michael would be getting called a cheat again,if you watched the races like i have see if you can notice how many front runners retired from both races before johnny came through to win,and it also makes a mockery of the statement about michaels team mates not getting much in the way of the best new parts on the car, no testing,a few mechanics and fixing his own punctures.

if the car was that bad, how come herbert was 3rd then?






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

to say MS has driven poor cars is frankly laughable, nobody has ever won a world title in a poor car.

the way you MS fans bleat on about the cars he has driven, you'd lead us to believe they were as good as minardi's and only the godlike schumacher has driven them to victory because of him

we've gone through this argument time and time again, but you never mention the teamwork that has helped smokescreen these " magnificent " victorys

eg. the stradegys that ross brawn has changed midrace to give MS victorys or the speed of ferrari's and bennetons pitcrew to get him in front when he's been unable to get passed any other way






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

But MS didnt complain bout Trulli being dangerous, he said he shouldnt be there!! .... he [DC] didnt say Bernoldi had no right to race.

He didn't say that at all, nor did he say Trulli had no right to race - he said it was fair that he was there, naturally, but he was driving inappropriately - which he was, blocking quite vigourously. It's exactly the same situation as DC and Bernoldi - you've dug yourself into a hole you can't get out of by saying Schumi is arrogant for his comments - because Coulthard acted in exactly the same way. And Bernoldi was not driving dangerously at all. Neither was Trulli. They were both defending their postions rather drastically. Coulthard for 90% of the race just sat behind Bernoldi and didn't even try to get past. Once or twice he lunged down the inside, but Bernoldi shut the door sharply, which wasn't necessarily the right thing to do in my opinion.

Martin Brundle. I like him as a comentator but he was'nt up to much as a driver really

Brundle was the fastest and most competitive team-mate Michael has had before Barrichello.

Senna...a different era, such tactics were more tolerated

Does it matter what was tolerated in that time? It's still the same principal, whether it happens to break the rules or not! In calling Schumacher a cheat you're effectively calling Senna a cheat, and you know you don't want to do that.... mainly because he wasn't. And neither is MS.

yeah they were that awful johhny herbert won 2 races in a bennetton

I think Herbert was a great driver, it wasn't all luck that led him to those victories. Mark raised a good point there - of course if Schumacher had done what Hill did on two occasions during the 1995 season, then he would have been a cheat. But no, oh no, good old British brute Hill took the German out, how funny, what a hero, it was just a mistake.




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Yo Sup

MS has never had a bad car. Yeah yeah, in 96 the Ferrari wasnt the best but it was better than most of the cars on the grid! Most other drives on the grid would have swapped there cars for that Ferrari any day!!

MS has always had the advantage of the team cirling around him, Ross Brawns great tactics and team orders moving his team-mates out of the way!

The point of Herbert winninh was he proved he could stick with the best. Not all the front runners went out of those races, i certainly remember DC being in the BritishGP come to the end

I know the next example your going to give is Spain96, it'll be "what an amaizng drive from MS to win in the wet when other couldnt when MS had such a "bad" car".

Well who else was competitive that season? Hill and Villenuve. Villenuve had never driven in the wet properly before that and had no experiance in it. Hills car has some techinicall problems and Hill couldnt cope and spun

So dont give me that example, i already laid that one down to rest.




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

the way you MS fans bleat on about the cars he has driven, you'd lead us to believe they were as good as minardi's and only the godlike schumacher has driven them to victory because of him

To lug that 1996 Ferrari to 3 victories is pretty damn godlike I'd say. Irvine said himself that thing did not by any stretch of the imagination deserve to win Grand Prixs.

So LS, what do you have to say about the Spanish GP of 1996? Oh, you can't remember, it, nothing special about it? Go and look in your cupboard for the video... *yeah right*

Oh, an incredible wet-weather Schumacher victory. What can I say about this? Oh dear, there really are no excuses... he blew the socks off everyone else in a CRAP car.

Ah yes it was all down to Ross Brawn. Wait a minute, no he had nothing to do with it because Schumi was so far ahead that he pitted and nobody even passed him.

Oh of course - it must have been the tyres! What? Everyone used the same tyres? My God, mabye it was the fact that he is just very very fast. Yes it was. But I can't admit that. There must be an excuse in here somewhere... must....... find...... excuse....... nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!




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So dont give me that example, i already laid that one down to rest

Oh it isn't that easy I'm afraid. Stop trying to hide...




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Well who else was competitive that season?

Hill and Villeneuve in a car far superior to the Ferrari. The Benetton was also a very good car, and more than a match for the Ferrari, which, to be fair, was a complete dog.

1996: Poor car, 3 victories, no championship chance though.
1997: Better car, no match for Williams. Title down to the wire.
1998: McLaren worth more than a second a lap over the Ferrari. Schumacher is worth more than that, as he demonstrates by taking the title down to the wire.
1999: Not Applicable. However, was romping away with the title until Silverstone.
2000: Still not as good as the McLaren, but nevertheless wins the title.
2001: Best car by quite a bit - and it shows. Schumacher + best car = Complete dominance.
2002: Last year's car, victory number 10 for it in Oz. Oh no sorry, it was Bridgestone's victory, not Schumi's.

Gee, how many times have I written that out before? Too many. The fact is that for the majority of his career, MS has been using an inferior car. Not a bad car (except in 1996), but an inferior one. You cannot argue that.

what would hill have had to gain by doing that on purpose?

I never mentioned that I thought Hill did that on purpose. I don't think he did. It was just careless driving. However, I'll answer the question anyway. What he had to gain - doing everything he can to try and stop Schumi winning the title and beating him for the second time in a row.




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