Unification

Indeed. Remove Indianapolis from the calender and the IRL is done. F1 doesn't have irreplaceable events.

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Any Nascar race trumps any non-Indianapolis IRL race.

So the choice is between the 500 and the 600.

And after winning the 500 the choice is a lot easier.

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red 5 Wrote:
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> great argument, but in my favour actually. You can
> not name ONE event that is as important to F1 as
> Indy 500 was to Indycar. You have to name several,
> and that is what makes them just one of 16.

It's not an argument, it's a personal statement. And frankly I always looked forward to the Michigan 500 about 10 times more than the Indy.

red 5 Wrote:
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> You can not name Monaco because you will be naming
> event that Jim Clark decided to avoid just to
> travell to America. To do what? To race at Indy
> 500. Ok this was maybe too hard. But when a
> jouranlist asked Mario Andretti before the season
> start if he could choose between winning Indy 500
> and Championship, what would he choose? Mario
> said; I can not tell you. Journalist asked why?
> and Mario replied; because I have to think about
> it, and when I'm done with thinking, you will be
> long gone. for me this sums it up. If you ask any
> current or past F1 driver to choose from
> championship and Monaco, I doubt they will have
> any second thought.

As above, it's a personal opinion. Jim Clark obviously thought it was good, but it's a different era completely to what we're discussing. None of us were even born then. Most of our parents probably weren't even born.

I'm not saying, "ahh shucks, T'indy sucks ass". I'm saying for me it holds little draw, and what value it did hold in my eyes is lessening each year.

It's probably the only jewel in American single-seater racing now (even in my eyes), but that's not because of its success, it's because the others fell by the wayside when Tony George decided Indycar didn't deserve the Indy 500. Or he got greedy. One of the 2.

currently ANY NASCAR Race is higher than the Indy 500 - afterall NASCAR did just take Hornish and Franchitti from IRL.

that's why I used past tense in my posts

Admit it or not Indy 500 was at least 33% of the whole series it was far more than just one race

but none of it sticks out from other events like Indy 500 sticked out.

@gav

US was a planet of their own 20 years back, they didn't give a dime what the rest of the world were thinking about their races. When I look at Indy 500 I try to look from American perspective. It was american race, 90% of the field were Americans. (apart from recpective guests Ascari, Clark, Hill, Brabham...)

Today you have united nations female field. And of course the point of view changed, TBH everything conserning US open wheel racing went to shlt

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 04:34PM by red 5.

that's why I used past tense in my posts

If you are using past tence if your posts then you realise that things change over time - which makes it even more ridiculous to compare 1960s F1/Indy to 1990s and current F1/Indy. You are using personal opinion as stone cold fact too.

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only personal opinion used as a stone fact in this thread is this:

In a highly competitive series, such as CART in the 90s, Penske chassis struggled

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And your posts aren't? Come on, your just trolling now. You know perfectly fine I meant the late 90s, and you are constantly posting much worse things than that!

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 05:01PM by DaveEllis.

Well I guess I just got carried away. Nevermind.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 06:55PM by red 5.

DaveEllis Wrote:
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>>It shouldn't, its a better development series then
>>the dreadful IRL one which has yet to produce any
>>decent drivers.
>
> So whats wrong with Marco Andretti and Alex Lloyd?

ALex Lloyd, I have to admit I never heard of him until he raced in the 24hrs of Daytona this past month, so I don't really know his background.

I don't consider Marco a product of the IPS since he ran less then half the season but he does proves my point. In 2005 he ran a few races in IPS but ran most of the schedule in the Star Mazda series which is suppose to be a step below IPS. In Star Mazda his best finish was 4th and he had only one other top five finish. In IPS he raced in six events, won three and had five top five finishes.

> The Atlantics have produced some right junk too.
> Katherine Legge, Charles Zwolsman and even Danica
> Patrick.

Those are junk drivers? Surely you could do better then that. I'm not saying everyone in Formula Atlantics is great and that every driver who makes it to that level of racing should actually be their, afterall Tony George was a driver in the Indy Lights league in 1989 which was a step above FA at the time.

Actually If I am not mistaken their are curently more graduates of FA in the IRL then their are IPS drivers. I think that speaks volumes.

Actually if i am not mistaken you don't follow the IRL.

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tripleM Wrote:
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> Actually if i am not mistaken you don't follow the
> IRL.


Yes this is true, which is why I never heard of Alex Lloyd before. As for Marco I don't have to follow the IRL to know who he is. With his last name he was/is all over the racing news. Also, I may not follow the IRL but I can read a stat or two when called upon.

In that case you don't need explaining why you're wrong on the number of IPS vs Atlantics graduates currently in the IRL.

Which btw doesn't reflect on the quality of either series.

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Those are junk drivers? Surely you could do better then that.

Yes, those are junk drivers.

Katherine Legge got a drive because she done well in the weakest CC Atlantic Series in the history of the series (because they were swapping to the Swift chassis). She hasn't actually won anything, ever, in any series and is only famous for flipping her Formula Renault car at Rockingham. CCWS needed someone to battle Danica-mania, and that was Kat, but it failed badly. Kat also spun or crashed in EVERY CCWS event in 2006, except for Milwaukee. Can you find someone worse on the grid than Kat? Maybe except Dangerous Dan Clarke.

Danica Patrick? Over-rated to hell, running around with a weight advantage, and a 2-faced stuck up bitch who needs put in her place. She is a waste of a seat and only has it because shes female. Had any other driver produced the epicly poor performance and rookie mistakes throughout her career that she has, they would not have the seat. It is worth mentioning that Danica has never won a race in any series she has taken part in.

Actually If I am not mistaken their are currently more graduates of FA in the IRL then their are IPS drivers. I think that speaks volumes.

No it doesn't. It isn't relevant at all. All it says is how bad a shape CCWS is in that nobody wants to go there. Look what happened to Pagenaud when the money ran out. IRL is simply a much more attractive prospect, and has been for awhile now for any driver wanting to progress in there career.

It's all fine and well coming in with stats, however when you are unable to backup the states with a reasonable reason for or against them, it just all falls down the drain. You can prove anything with stats - however that doesn't make it true/

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this is why dancia is in irl

[sportsillustrated.cnn.com]

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

HELLO TITTIES WHERE ARE YOU

DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those are junk drivers? Surely you could do better
> then that.
>
> Yes, those are junk drivers.

For the sake of argument I will give you those as junk drivers. So, I have to then ask do you think all drivers who have been in FA are junk drivers? Also (and this is my real point), has the IPS done any better? Do you think AJ Foyt IV (who BTW was the 1st IPS champion), a guy who is probably best known for nearly ending Bruno Junqueira's racing career is better then any of your junk drivers? Or how about Ed Carpenter, is he better the Kat or Danica?

My point is I think FA is a better development series then IPS and should survive over it, but in the end I have no say in the matter so its a moot point.

> Katherine Legge got a drive because she done well
> in the weakest CC Atlantic Series in the history
> of the series

I will give you that it was a weak field that year but even in its weak state in comparison to the IPS it was still a harder series. Actually I thought the strongest ladder series that season was the Star Mazda.

> She hasn't actually won anything, ever,

Not true, she won Long Beach, Edmonton, and San Jose in the Atlantics series. You may not like it, you may wish to downplay it, but you can't take those wins away from her.

> Kat also spun
> or crashed in EVERY CCWS event in 2006, except for
> Milwaukee.

I only remember her spinning out at Long Beach (on cold tires I seem to recall) and RA which was obviously a mechanical falure, but I do know she is listed as having finished Long Beach, Monterrey, Milwaukee, Portland, Cleveland, Denver so she obviously didn't crash out nearly ever race as you tried to imply.

> Danica Patrick? Over-rated to hell, running around
> with a weight advantage, and a 2-faced stuck up
> bitch who needs put in her place.

Is running with a weight advantage her problem? I think not, its a rules problem. Da Matta had a weight advantage when he won the Champ Car title, does that make him a lesser driver?

So, I have to then ask do you think all drivers who have been in FA are junk drivers?

I never said that and I'd appreciate it if you read what I posted, and not what you want me to post. Go back and read it.

Not true, she won Long Beach, Edmonton, and San Jose in the Atlantics series. You may not like it, you may wish to downplay it, but you can't take those wins away from her.

*cough* I meant championships. Shes been pretty poor in every championship except a pathetically weak Atlantic's grid too.

I only remember her spinning out at Long Beach (on cold tires I seem to recall) and RA which was obviously a mechanical falure, but I do know she is listed as having finished Long Beach, Monterrey, Milwaukee, Portland, Cleveland, Denver so she obviously didn't crash out nearly ever race as you tried to imply.

Nope, she did. Go check it out. Your the expert (apparently). She spun or crashed in every race except Milwaukee. And since CCWS allows the cars to be push started by the marshals (something you seem to have forgotten) I think you'll find you can spin in a race and still finish - you even mention it with Long Beach.

Is running with a weight advantage her problem? I think not, its a rules problem. Da Matta had a weight advantage when he won the Champ Car title, does that make him a lesser driver?

Again with the twisting of words. Da Matta won the championship. Danica has not even won a race. In fact she hasn't won a race in any series she has EVER entered. Not only that, despite her advantages and running around in arguably the best team on the grid, all she does is making stupid rookie errors, such as spinning in the pit lane - thats a favorite of hers. And yet despite this she walks around like shes queen of the castle, some sort of driving god. As I said, she is a 2 faced bitch and not good enough to run in the top series.

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what is everyone arguing about, this is irrelevant

Press conference on Wednesday?

[auto-racing.speedtv.com]

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lets hope its true