Computer build advice
Posted by Hologide
So as another laptop bites the dust I've deemed it time to upgrade.
I'm gonna build my own computer with a budget of £500, flexible. Posting on these forums because one of my ambitions is to run GP4 hi-res, something I've never had the pleasure of doing before
Here it is, all prices taken off Scan.co.uk
So yeah, any obvious bottlenecks or poor quality products on there? This is my first build so I'm not too confident in my ability to assess the internal components quite yet. You'll have to ignore the lack of graphics card. i've been reliably informed that the mobo has pretty efficient onboard graphics, and I'll be looking to tag a graphics card on in a few months anyway, once I know how it's performing.
Thanks for any advice guys
I'm gonna build my own computer with a budget of £500, flexible. Posting on these forums because one of my ambitions is to run GP4 hi-res, something I've never had the pleasure of doing before
Here it is, all prices taken off Scan.co.uk
So yeah, any obvious bottlenecks or poor quality products on there? This is my first build so I'm not too confident in my ability to assess the internal components quite yet. You'll have to ignore the lack of graphics card. i've been reliably informed that the mobo has pretty efficient onboard graphics, and I'll be looking to tag a graphics card on in a few months anyway, once I know how it's performing.
Thanks for any advice guys
Ok, I'm no expert (wait for gav :D) but here's what I think:
CPU - do't get an AMD, change it for an intel - I'm not sure which ones are that kind of price, but have a look.
Edit: If you're willing to spend ~£50 more you could get an E7--- series C2D
Graphics - An onboard graphics card is not going to be good enough. You definitly need to buy a decent graphics card.
Hope that helps
Batracer - the online racing manager game - join here [batracer.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 08:31AM by Robert.
CPU - do't get an AMD, change it for an intel - I'm not sure which ones are that kind of price, but have a look.
Edit: If you're willing to spend ~£50 more you could get an E7--- series C2D
Graphics - An onboard graphics card is not going to be good enough. You definitly need to buy a decent graphics card.
Hope that helps
Batracer - the online racing manager game - join here
[batracer.com]Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 08:31AM by Robert.
How flexible? If you can stretch a little you could get dedicated graphics now.
As onboard graphics go, the 790G is way above anything else as far as I'm aware, but it's still miles behind a HD 4670, 9800GT or HD 4830.
Broadly what I'd try to stretch to for around this budget:
A few notes:
Does GP4 work on Vista? Does it work on Windows 64-bit? I've not tried GP4 it for years now.
If it works on Vista, you might want to save the money on the Vista license for now and download the beta of Windows 7 (which is easily stable enough for temporary use for most, and stable enough for many in long-term use (until the beta expires in August). It's a tight budget, so saving £90 for now (or £70 if you go XP Home) releases a lot of funds to save or spend elsewhere. If GP4 works on Vista it should work on Windows 7 too (which when it comes down to it is just a more refined version of Vista - though a very nicely refined one).
2gb of RAM is a bit stingy for 64-bit Windows. The emulation layer which runs 32-bit applications requires more memory than if you were simply running the same on 32-bit Windows. 4gb would be ideal if you do want to go 64-bit. Again, if you choose to run Windows 7 beta for now you could even dual-boot between 32-bit and 64-bit, and choose which works best. I've left your choice in my budget, but I'd be inclined to either spend the extra £10 on a 4gb kit (2x2gb Corsair) or drop down to a 32-bit version of Windows if you're not going to double the RAM at some point. The £10 for double the RAM is attractive, but again depends on how flexible your budget is.
Case: I'd have liked to have gone for the Silverstone TJ08 and a MicroATX motherboard, but that pushes the budget up further. The Zen is a popular choice, so it must be for a good reason.
Motherboard: If you can avoid it, don't spend more on a board with decent built-in graphics and then spend a further £100 on dedicated graphics at a later point. If you've got the money at the moment, you'll save yourself £20-40 further down the line.
HDD: You won't find any recommendations for Hitachi Deathstars. Avoid Maxtor like the plague too and I'm not a fan of Seagate currently (lots of dying drives and then compounded with firmware cockups which were supposed to fix some issues, but stopped some drives from working at all!). Samsung and Western Digital are currently the only decent choices IMO. Samsung are a bit cheaper usually, but I've had a couple of odd Samsung drives (data is all fine, but sometimes they aren't picked up by the HDD controller), so I stick with WD personally. Both are generally fine though.
Graphics: If going dedicated, you've got real 3 choices. There's the HD 4670 around the £65-70 price point (excellent value), then a nice step in performance if you spend £90-105 on a 9800GT or £95-110 on a HD 4830 (both still very good value for what they give). Again, personally I'm an ATI guy generally, but go with what side you sit on. Sometimes it is better the devil you know, but I couldn't say if either side is better at GP4, or they're both fine.
I'm sure we could get down to £500 with decent dedicated graphics easily enough, but I feel it would be worth spending a little extra here and there and getting a better rounded system.
As onboard graphics go, the 790G is way above anything else as far as I'm aware, but it's still miles behind a HD 4670, 9800GT or HD 4830.
Broadly what I'd try to stretch to for around this budget:
A few notes:
Does GP4 work on Vista? Does it work on Windows 64-bit? I've not tried GP4 it for years now.
If it works on Vista, you might want to save the money on the Vista license for now and download the beta of Windows 7 (which is easily stable enough for temporary use for most, and stable enough for many in long-term use (until the beta expires in August). It's a tight budget, so saving £90 for now (or £70 if you go XP Home) releases a lot of funds to save or spend elsewhere. If GP4 works on Vista it should work on Windows 7 too (which when it comes down to it is just a more refined version of Vista - though a very nicely refined one).
2gb of RAM is a bit stingy for 64-bit Windows. The emulation layer which runs 32-bit applications requires more memory than if you were simply running the same on 32-bit Windows. 4gb would be ideal if you do want to go 64-bit. Again, if you choose to run Windows 7 beta for now you could even dual-boot between 32-bit and 64-bit, and choose which works best. I've left your choice in my budget, but I'd be inclined to either spend the extra £10 on a 4gb kit (2x2gb Corsair) or drop down to a 32-bit version of Windows if you're not going to double the RAM at some point. The £10 for double the RAM is attractive, but again depends on how flexible your budget is.
Case: I'd have liked to have gone for the Silverstone TJ08 and a MicroATX motherboard, but that pushes the budget up further. The Zen is a popular choice, so it must be for a good reason.
Motherboard: If you can avoid it, don't spend more on a board with decent built-in graphics and then spend a further £100 on dedicated graphics at a later point. If you've got the money at the moment, you'll save yourself £20-40 further down the line.
HDD: You won't find any recommendations for Hitachi Deathstars. Avoid Maxtor like the plague too and I'm not a fan of Seagate currently (lots of dying drives and then compounded with firmware cockups which were supposed to fix some issues, but stopped some drives from working at all!). Samsung and Western Digital are currently the only decent choices IMO. Samsung are a bit cheaper usually, but I've had a couple of odd Samsung drives (data is all fine, but sometimes they aren't picked up by the HDD controller), so I stick with WD personally. Both are generally fine though.
Graphics: If going dedicated, you've got real 3 choices. There's the HD 4670 around the £65-70 price point (excellent value), then a nice step in performance if you spend £90-105 on a 9800GT or £95-110 on a HD 4830 (both still very good value for what they give). Again, personally I'm an ATI guy generally, but go with what side you sit on. Sometimes it is better the devil you know, but I couldn't say if either side is better at GP4, or they're both fine.
I'm sure we could get down to £500 with decent dedicated graphics easily enough, but I feel it would be worth spending a little extra here and there and getting a better rounded system.
"2gb of RAM is a bit stingy for 64-bit Windows."
He had 4gb of RAM in his original specs.
Though it was with bigger CAS latency, but does smaller latency really make that much difference in normal use?
My photo gallery: [viltzu86.deviantart.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 03:07PM by villej.
He had 4gb of RAM in his original specs.
Though it was with bigger CAS latency, but does smaller latency really make that much difference in normal use?My photo gallery: [viltzu86.deviantart.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 03:07PM by villej.
Ah, so he did.
And no, latency makes little difference on Intel chips, even on Core i7 with the memory controller on the CPU.
And no, latency makes little difference on Intel chips, even on Core i7 with the memory controller on the CPU.
Gp4 does work on Vista just not with gpxpatch nor tweaker.
Its pitty because you will be missing a lot.
Win XP with SP2 or SP3 is the correct choice.
What im worried is about the PSU choice, 450w seems really low for
all the system. Try to get something better.
07 No Tsm Track Pack__GPGSL08 Mod__range">97 TeamArt
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
Its pitty because you will be missing a lot.
Win XP with SP2 or SP3 is the correct choice.
What im worried is about the PSU choice, 450w seems really low for
all the system. Try to get something better.
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
J-C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gp4 does work on Vista just not with gpxpatch nor
> tweaker.
> Its pitty because you will be missing a lot.
> Win XP with SP2 or SP3 is the correct choice.
> What im worried is about the PSU choice, 450w
> seems really low for
> all the system. Try to get something better.
For me GP4 works fine on vista with all programs.
You may have to use compatibility with XP sometimes, I can't quite remember, but it worked fine for me last time I played
Batracer - the online racing manager game - join here [batracer.com]
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gp4 does work on Vista just not with gpxpatch nor
> tweaker.
> Its pitty because you will be missing a lot.
> Win XP with SP2 or SP3 is the correct choice.
> What im worried is about the PSU choice, 450w
> seems really low for
> all the system. Try to get something better.
For me GP4 works fine on vista with all programs.
You may have to use compatibility with XP sometimes, I can't quite remember, but it worked fine for me last time I played
Batracer - the online racing manager game - join here
[batracer.com]gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @J-C: 450W is more than generous for such a
> system. A good 350W PSU would laugh at that.
Yes if its a true PSU and not a cheap crap one.
You should know im not new to pc hardware. Infact im a
member of an overclokers forum and believe i have done
many wild things with pc components.
Robert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me GP4 works fine on vista with all programs.
> You may have to use compatibility with XP
> sometimes, I can't quite remember, but it worked
> fine for me last time I played
I know about the compability mod long time ago
but some programs to edit gp4 do not work.
07 No Tsm Track Pack__GPGSL08 Mod__range">97 TeamArt
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 10:40PM by J-C.
-------------------------------------------------------
> @J-C: 450W is more than generous for such a
> system. A good 350W PSU would laugh at that.
Yes if its a true PSU and not a cheap crap one.
You should know im not new to pc hardware. Infact im a
member of an overclokers forum and believe i have done
many wild things with pc components.
Robert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me GP4 works fine on vista with all programs.
> You may have to use compatibility with XP
> sometimes, I can't quite remember, but it worked
> fine for me last time I played
I know about the compability mod long time ago
but some programs to edit gp4 do not work.
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 10:40PM by J-C.
gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you suggesting the biggest OEM supplier of
> PSUs are "cheap and crap", because I would like
> you to back that one up?
Did you actually read what i put?
I said if its a true psu then everything is ok!!
07 No Tsm Track Pack__GPGSL08 Mod__range">97 TeamArt
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you suggesting the biggest OEM supplier of
> PSUs are "cheap and crap", because I would like
> you to back that one up?
Did you actually read what i put?
I said if its a true psu then everything is ok!!
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
J-C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For me GP4 works fine on vista with all
> programs.
> > You may have to use compatibility with XP
> > sometimes, I can't quite remember, but it
> worked
> > fine for me last time I played
>
> I know about the compability mod long time ago
> but some programs to edit gp4 do not work.
Seems I must just be lucky, and I probably haven't used all the programs anyway
Batracer - the online racing manager game - join here [batracer.com]
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For me GP4 works fine on vista with all
> programs.
> > You may have to use compatibility with XP
> > sometimes, I can't quite remember, but it
> worked
> > fine for me last time I played
>
> I know about the compability mod long time ago
> but some programs to edit gp4 do not work.
Seems I must just be lucky, and I probably haven't used all the programs anyway
Batracer - the online racing manager game - join here
[batracer.com]J-C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Infact im a member of an overclokers forum and believe i have done many wild things with pc components.
Rofl i actually pissed my pants at that one.
Gav work's in IT, i think that mean's he probably know's more than you - even with your er...extensive overclocker forum knowledge
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 10:58PM by mika19b.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Infact im a member of an overclokers forum and believe i have done many wild things with pc components.
Rofl i actually pissed my pants at that one.
Gav work's in IT, i think that mean's he probably know's more than you - even with your er...extensive overclocker forum knowledge
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 10:58PM by mika19b.
mika19b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> J-C Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Infact im a member of an overclokers forum and
> believe i have done many wild things with pc
> components.
>
> Rofl i actually pissed my pants at that one.
You are 6 years old with that comment
mika19b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gav work's in IT, i think that mean's he probably
> know's more than you - even with your
> er...extensive overclocker forum knowledge
I can express my opinion in this public forum.
And it doesnt matter if a person knows more than another
i can still wright anything i like as long i dont break the
forum rules.
Im wondering if their is anything productive from your post?
Answer: Not a thing.
Good bye.
07 No Tsm Track Pack__GPGSL08 Mod__range">97 TeamArt
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
-------------------------------------------------------
> J-C Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Infact im a member of an overclokers forum and
> believe i have done many wild things with pc
> components.
>
> Rofl i actually pissed my pants at that one.
You are 6 years old with that comment
mika19b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gav work's in IT, i think that mean's he probably
> know's more than you - even with your
> er...extensive overclocker forum knowledge
I can express my opinion in this public forum.
And it doesnt matter if a person knows more than another
i can still wright anything i like as long i dont break the
forum rules.
Im wondering if their is anything productive from your post?
Answer: Not a thing.
Good bye.
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
1) Im actually 18, not 6. Show's how much you know.
2) I found it kinda funny how you came storming in with a "overclocker forum comment" that's all
Oh well, im sure you will get over it...
2) I found it kinda funny how you came storming in with a "overclocker forum comment" that's all
Oh well, im sure you will get over it...
Come on, back on topic please lets not have a disagreement when this guy's after help.
You say its your first build as in never made one before? If so, then I was like that at one time panicking and not too sure where things go or what to do. It's easier than it's made out to be and once you build one you'll be thinking "what was all that stress for?". Obviously, at the time it will seem difficult but once you sit back and think about it, things just click into place and make sense.
About your screen though, can you not find one with a higher resolution for roughly the same price? 1440x900 doesnt seem that good of a maximum res for a 19" screen when most 16" laptop screens will do 1680x1050 . And yep, I agree with the vista comments too. I've hardly ever played GP4 before but I've read quite a bit about programs (not just GP4 either) failing to be compatible with Vista. I stuck with XP for mine even though everything else is pretty much new, because I'd have problems getting things to work. If you've had XP in the past then stick with it, things will be made so much easier.
Circuit Thermalito
Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)
lets not have a disagreement when this guy's after help.You say its your first build as in never made one before? If so, then I was like that at one time
panicking and not too sure where things go or what to do. It's easier than it's made out to be and once you build one you'll be thinking "what was all that stress for?". Obviously, at the time it will seem difficult but once you sit back and think about it, things just click into place and make sense.About your screen though, can you not find one with a higher resolution for roughly the same price? 1440x900 doesnt seem that good of a maximum res for a 19" screen when most 16" laptop screens will do 1680x1050
. And yep, I agree with the vista comments too. I've hardly ever played GP4 before but I've read quite a bit about programs (not just GP4 either) failing to be compatible with Vista. I stuck with XP for mine even though everything else is pretty much new, because I'd have problems getting things to work. If you've had XP in the past then stick with it, things will be made so much easier.Circuit Thermalito
Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)
mika19b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) Im actually 18, not 6. Show's how much you
> know.
I said 6 years old because thats exactly how you wrote
to me attacking me without a single reason.
mika19b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2) I found it kinda funny how you came storming in
> with a "overclocker forum comment" that's all
Im a member of GPG for nearly 5 years. Your welcome to ask around.
I have a lot of computer hardware knowledge and i think i can give
an opinion and clearly i have more knowledge than you.
You are knowone to tell me if a guy knows more or less, your clearly
wanted to pick a fight because their isnt other reason for your comments
and the way your laughing and the way you continued to laught.
I find your posts a total lack of respect.
What i promise ill report you to the admins of this forum.
Good bye.
07 No Tsm Track Pack__GPGSL08 Mod__range">97 TeamArt
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) Im actually 18, not 6. Show's how much you
> know.
I said 6 years old because thats exactly how you wrote
to me attacking me without a single reason.
mika19b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2) I found it kinda funny how you came storming in
> with a "overclocker forum comment" that's all
Im a member of GPG for nearly 5 years. Your welcome to ask around.
I have a lot of computer hardware knowledge and i think i can give
an opinion and clearly i have more knowledge than you.
You are knowone to tell me if a guy knows more or less, your clearly
wanted to pick a fight because their isnt other reason for your comments
and the way your laughing and the way you continued to laught.
I find your posts a total lack of respect.
What i promise ill report you to the admins of this forum.
Good bye.
Tutorial how to compile a No Csm Mod
Settle down or it'll be handbags at ten paces. Stay on topic, no thread hijacking please. Keep your derogatory comments to yourselves. It's unnecessary. You guys shouldn't have to be told that anyway, you've all been here long enough, just show each other some respect, it's not too hard to do. We now resume normal service.
[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to. [www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Central
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2009 08:26AM by mortal.
[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to.
[www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 CentralEdited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2009 08:26AM by mortal.
J-C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you actually read what i put?
> I said if its a true psu then everything is ok!!
J-C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gp4 does work on Vista just not with gpxpatch nor
> tweaker.
> Its pitty because you will be missing a lot.
> Win XP with SP2 or SP3 is the correct choice.
> What im worried is about the PSU choice, 450w
> seems really low for
> all the system. Try to get something better.
Which seemed a direct point on my choice, saying as Hologlide posted a 400W PSU (which I cannot in any way vouch for, as I've no personal experience of Silverpower), therefore you seemed to be saying that FSP were a "cheap crap" brand. If so, I suggest you go and read up on some independent reviews on FSP. They're not Seasonic, but they're solid, the perfect choice for PCs on a budget, and about as far removed from EZCool and QTec as you can get.
mika19b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gav work's in IT, i think that mean's he probably
> know's more than you - even with your
> er...extensive overclocker forum knowledge
Thanks Mika, but if someone doesn't work in IT, it doesn't make their comments suddenly less valid on a given topic than someone who does. I just find it frustrating when advice is given which contradicts good advice and suggests spending more for no gain.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you actually read what i put?
> I said if its a true psu then everything is ok!!
J-C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gp4 does work on Vista just not with gpxpatch nor
> tweaker.
> Its pitty because you will be missing a lot.
> Win XP with SP2 or SP3 is the correct choice.
> What im worried is about the PSU choice, 450w
> seems really low for
> all the system. Try to get something better.
Which seemed a direct point on my choice, saying as Hologlide posted a 400W PSU (which I cannot in any way vouch for, as I've no personal experience of Silverpower), therefore you seemed to be saying that FSP were a "cheap crap" brand. If so, I suggest you go and read up on some independent reviews on FSP. They're not Seasonic, but they're solid, the perfect choice for PCs on a budget, and about as far removed from EZCool and QTec as you can get.
mika19b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gav work's in IT, i think that mean's he probably
> know's more than you - even with your
> er...extensive overclocker forum knowledge
Thanks Mika, but if someone doesn't work in IT, it doesn't make their comments suddenly less valid on a given topic than someone who does. I just find it frustrating when advice is given which contradicts good advice and suggests spending more for no gain.
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