Brexit

Posted by EC83 
Brexit
Date: June 25, 2016 01:40AM
Posted by: EC83
So - it's actually happening!

I admit I find it surprising. I voted Leave, because I didn't feel particularly strongly either way, but I decided that when in doubt, a change is probably good. But I thought that most people would vote for the safe option, and it was both surprising and interesting that overall they didn't.

Now there's talk of a General Election, and another Independence Referendum in Scotland too... It's going to be interesting to see how things play out over the next few months.



Re: Brexit
Date: June 25, 2016 02:02AM
Posted by: mortal
Google Trends out of the UK after the voting results: Where is the EU, What is the EU, What will happen if we leave the EU.

I watched a video of a Brit girl saying she was voting leave because eggs. Yes, that's right, because of eggs. Secondly, because Britain would not be in the football so she wouldn't have to watch it with her boyfriend. Thirdly, that she would no longer be able to go to Paris Disneyland to see Minnie and Mickey because the borders would be closed, people won't be able to get in or out.
Not happy that she would have to make do with going to Chessington.

When you have voters displaying such intelligence on the value of their vote, the result is not surprising. Now, there are those that voted no expressing shock and dismay at the result.
More than 25000 votes were declared invalid, 250 votes had both boxes ticked, seriously? Cant make your mind up? Thousands of votes displayed information identifying the voter.

Britain got what it asked for, now they have to deal with the aftermath, a plunging dollar and billions wiped off the stock market and a forecast of a recession.

In other news, an Australian forum has been flooded with requests for information on emigration. Pardon the pun, would that be rats deserting a sinking ship lol.

Britain Brexit, David Cameron Legxit.

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Re: Brexit
Date: June 25, 2016 11:00AM
Posted by: Incident 2k9
Absolute travesty. I voted to remain, and it's something I felt very strongly about. In fact, 73% of the 18-25 demographic voted Remain; we saw our future as part of something bigger. But now, we've got to live with a future that the older generations have picked for us and that means economic uncertainty for us all, no further right to work within the EU and our generation's politicians are going to be working to get out of this unholy mess.

Cornwall and Wales are two examples of those who wanted to have their cake and eat it. They receive millions of euros in EU funding for their building and community projects, and both voted to Leave. Now, they're banging on the door of Westminster asking whether they'll still get their funding.

This should never have gone to a referendum. Something of this magnitude never should. The automotive industry is not going to hang around now it's not part of the EU, so from a personal level I'm a bit screwed.

"would that be rats deserting a sinking ship lol."

Yes, because we all voted for this outcome Mal, didn't we? God forbid people are unhappy with the decision and see their futures elsewhere.

I've got no choice but to wait and see how this all pans out, because there's nothing we can do now. The baby boomers have said their final "f*ck yous" to the younger generations, and we've got to sleep in the bed that they've shat in. What a life we lead.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2016 11:01AM by Incident 2k9.
Re: Brexit
Date: June 25, 2016 01:10PM
Posted by: Ferrari2007
A victory for Nigel Farage and his Little Englanders.

Like Jake, I'm absolutely gutted about the outcome.



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Re: Brexit
Date: June 25, 2016 05:10PM
Posted by: Excalibur
Only less than 24 hours after the Brexit, some people have understood that the "Leave" vote was based on lies! Farage went back on his words.

Pro-Brexit had suggested, in case of exit, putting back the 350 million pounds (approximately 430 million euros) sent by the United Kingdom every week to the European Union, to the National Health Service, the British Social Security.
Invited on Good Morning Britain's tray a few hours after the announcement of the results, he considered that the camp of the leave " had made an error by asserting it ".
He said that after 17 million people voted for leaving Europe on the basis of this propaganda! ... and also about immigrants, which was a false debate.

So now, we can see what happens when the populism takes it... After 46 years of cooperation, it is sad to see that populism gains Europe ground and I think it is not good at all to withdraw into oneself. I am afraid that the contagion gains also the others countries.

The problem of Europe is that we left our principles based on the solidarity between nations, social Europe and cooperation for standards and economic treaties, a market-based economy and strong lobbyings.
I just hope that Brexit will have for positive impact to question the current dysfunctions of Europe, through his leaders...

In the meantime, it is a disaster for Great Britain, economically and the path for the exit will be long because Great Britain has to renegotiate all its treaties of exchanges with Europe. Thus the Great Britain is weakened all other countries are weakened, too.

I just think it is sad for the Europe of the nations and cooperation...

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2016 06:12PM by Excalibur.
Re: Brexit
Date: June 25, 2016 11:31PM
Posted by: n00binio
Incident 2k9 schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Absolute travesty. I voted to remain, and it's
> something I felt very strongly about. In fact, 73%
> of the 18-25 demographic voted Remain; we saw our
> future as part of something bigger. But now, we've
> got to live with a future that the older
> generations have picked for us and that means
> economic uncertainty for us all, no further right
> to work within the EU and our generation's
> politicians are going to be working to get out of
> this unholy mess.
>
> Cornwall and Wales are two examples of those who
> wanted to have their cake and eat it. They receive
> millions of euros in EU funding for their building
> and community projects, and both voted to Leave.
> Now, they're banging on the door of Westminster
> asking whether they'll still get their funding.
>
> This should never have gone to a referendum.
> Something of this magnitude never should. The
> automotive industry is not going to hang around
> now it's not part of the EU, so from a personal
> level I'm a bit screwed.
>
> "would that be rats deserting a sinking ship
> lol."
>
> Yes, because we all voted for this outcome Mal,
> didn't we? God forbid people are unhappy with the
> decision and see their futures elsewhere.
>
> I've got no choice but to wait and see how this
> all pans out, because there's nothing we can do
> now. The baby boomers have said their final "f*ck
> yous" to the younger generations, and we've got to
> sleep in the bed that they've shat in. What a life
> we lead.

Well said. I think I would feel the same way if it happened in Germany. Interestingly the whole Brexit story helped to boost the confidence in the EU here with a record low of 7% saying we should leave as well.
I actually stayed awake quite long on thursday to wait for the first predictions and was quite shocked the next morning. It's sad, besides all the economical stuff. I have sort of a soft spot for the UK, I met tons of nice people there, rich culture, nice country in general, top humour,... and this vote feels a bit like shouting "get lost" at everyone else.

And it's sort of ironic. Apparantly people wanted to make the UK great again (at least that's what I understood) but what will happen? Scotland will try to get its independence, who knows about Wales and northern Ireland. And poor Gibraltar, no more Frontex protection is probably the least of their problems. In the end it will be a status comparable to Norway or Switzerland, having to accept all EU regulations etc. but without the right to influence anything. I think Norway even tried to advise against the brexit for exactly that reason. Not what I would call an advancement.

Hopefully we can fix this at some point in the forseeable future.

To end on a funny note: our federal foreign office tweeted they would now go to an Irish pub to get drunk. Normal service would resume the next morning. That's the spirit I guess.



- used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2016 11:37PM by n00binio.
Re: Brexit
Date: June 26, 2016 11:23AM
Posted by: Vader
So what might happen now?

- Scotland might leave the UK
- North Ireland might leave the UK
- London might become an autonomous city-state. Apparently already 120,000 Londoners have petitioned Khan to make the city leave the UK anbd stay in the EU.
- France might send British border controls at Tunnel off their territory thus making refugee camps move from Calais to Dover
- European industry might leave the UK (or what's left of it)
- there might be second referendum and if this time the result is "stay", it could divide your country even deeper
- the £350 to NHS promise - one of the big arguments for "leave" apparently was a lie

Incident2k is spot on. Those with hardly any future left screwed the future of the young people. Sad, sad, sad.

I don't mind democracy at all and I'm all for personal freedom. However, I'm not a friend of referendums, especially not if matters exceed the intellectual level of pub talk . It might sound harsh, but reading comments on the internet I think it already does enough harm, if some people are allowed to vote every four or five years. No need to let them directly decide the future of a continent.






REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS
Re: Brexit
Date: June 26, 2016 12:49PM
Posted by: Incident 2k9
Vader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> - the £350m to NHS promise - one of the big
> arguments for "leave" apparently was a lie
>


Remain had said it was a lie from the start. With rebates from the EU, that figure's closer to £190m. However, we had Johnson, Gove and Farage keep shouting "£350m" over and over, and people were dumb enough to believe it. £190m is about 0.02% of the UK's GDP. A drop in the ocean. A tiny little fee to have access to ready-made trade deals which can boost that GDP figure even further.

Economists were against Brexit. Businessmen were against it. Looking at the voting percentages, an overwhelming majority of people with higher education qualifications were against it. Unfortunately, Leave pandered to the "island mentality" of Britain by selling a dream of a better funded NHS and the prospect of less immigration. Neither of those things will actually happen, as it turns out. There's been a mass of people who have said "I voted for Leave but didn't think it would happen, but now it is I regret voting that way". Our future is in the hands of those people, so thanks guys.

David Cameron, for all his shortcomings, has left in the best possible way. He's giving the burden of activating Article 50 to the next Conservative leader, and so they'll be responsible for any fallout. Will they go through with it? I don't know.

I've had enough of the whole thing, I really have. The Conservative and Labour parties are having internal battles, and UKIP are basically irrelevant now they've got what they wanted. The SNP and Lib Dems now need to link up and try to offer a glimmer of hope to the disenfranchised.



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Re: Brexit
Date: June 26, 2016 12:59PM
Posted by: mortal
Stupid people shouldn't be allowed to vote. To vote leave and not expect it to happen....says it all really. Still, it has had some benefits, my daughter is off to the UK next week and has bought GBP for cheap.

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Re: Brexit
Date: June 26, 2016 04:54PM
Posted by: Incident 2k9
Well, that's good news then. We're in the toilet, but at least holidays here are cheap.



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Re: Brexit
Date: June 26, 2016 05:38PM
Posted by: thestig88
I admit I voted Leave on the principal that any organisation (such as the EU) seeking to exert control over more and more people and countries is frightening, and for them to be openly against democracy and giving people a voice (for eg. Lisbon Treaty in Ireland - people made to keep voting until the EU got the result they wanted). I believe the EU is now another racket run by the rich for the rich but on a continental scale. If the EU was as it used to be, just a common open market with co-operation between nations then I'm cool with that. But when they're seeking to remove power and rights from nations governments and people (In a sneaky underhand way) and enforcing rules and laws which may work for one nation but not another, then sorry, enough enough!
The feeling that they're trying to erode individual national identities and assimilate all Europeans into one group is something out of a sci-fi horror film IMHO. The feeling amongst some that "unless you're highly educated then you don't deserve to vote" is just snobbery and elitism at its worse and shows the divide between people is growing. I trust common sense over "education" most times.
And when I ask myself, what's more important, youths being able the "luxury" of travelling around Europe easier, or the "luxury" of me (and millions of other struggling hard working families) actually having £10 spare for said luxuries after paying our bills, mortgage, feeding my wife and young daughter, (holidays - once every few years if we're lucky?) after working 7 days a week (as an I.T. engineer), then I know which side I'm on.
Yep, both sides lied through their teeth, and like the 2015 GE it was vile and nasty, but I hope that this will be the kick up the backside Politics needs, in that Govts are now open and honest and listen to the people. And if the EU can finally realise that its seriously flawed and re-invents itself for the better. This is what happens when the people continually get trodden on by establishments - they eventually revolt.

2nd Referendum, 3rd Referendum, where does it end? Have the Euro 2016 Football Final replayed if the losing team aren't happy, it sets a bad precedent. The date was set for the Referendum, you make your choice, cross the box, and the result was what it was. *****Prepares myself for forum execution *****
Re: Brexit
Date: June 26, 2016 05:54PM
Posted by: gav
Quote
Incident 2k9
Remain had said it was a lie from the start. With rebates from the EU, that figure's closer to £190m. However, we had Johnson, Gove and Farage keep shouting "£350m" over and over, and people were dumb enough to believe it. £190m is about 0.02% of the UK's GDP. A drop in the ocean. A tiny little fee to have access to ready-made trade deals which can boost that GDP figure even further.

It was more like half of that again. We got loads of grants for things like agriculture and Cornwall and Wales had agreements with the EU for other large grants. I think the final figure was about £50-80m per week once everything was taken into account.
Re: Brexit
Date: June 26, 2016 10:56PM
Posted by: Incident 2k9
thestig88 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The feeling amongst some
> that "unless you're highly educated then you don't
> deserve to vote" is just snobbery and elitism at
> its worse and shows the divide between people is
> growing. I trust common sense over "education"
> most times.

That's not it, it's that so many people neglected to educate themselves beforehand about what actually would happen. The information was readily available, but far too many people voted one way because "that's what my mates are doing". In my mind, remaining was common sense; we have (sorry, HAD) everything ready for us, and now we're in the hands of three buffoons who didn't even devise a post-referendum plan.

> And when I ask myself, what's more important,
> youths being able the "luxury" of travelling
> around Europe easier, or the "luxury" of me (and
> millions of other struggling hard working
> families) actually having £10 spare for said
> luxuries after paying our bills, mortgage, feeding
> my wife and young daughter, (holidays - once every
> few years if we're lucky?) after working 7 days a
> week (as an I.T. engineer), then I know which side
> I'm on.

What a rubbish argument. People rely on the free transit of labour for their jobs, it's not just case of going on holiday. Now, people are at risk of losing those jobs if negotiations to retain free movement aren't fruitful. Regardless, I'd expect any money that we've "saved" from going to the EU will end up going back in to allow us access to the EEA, if not more.

> Yep, both sides lied through their teeth, and like
> the 2015 GE it was vile and nasty, but I hope that
> this will be the kick up the backside Politics
> needs, in that Govts are now open and honest and
> listen to the people. And if the EU can finally
> realise that its seriously flawed and re-invents
> itself for the better.

Yes, but is cutting off your nose to spite your face REALLY the best option? If it was a close Remain win, I'm confident we'd have the ammunition to go into the EU and say "look, the people are worried, let's fix this".

> This is what happens when
> the people continually get trodden on by
> establishments - they eventually revolt.

But the biggest demographic in favour of Leave was the boomer generation! And they've NEVER been trodden on by the establishment, they've had absolutely everything on a plate. Upward economic mobility (about the time the EU was created, no?), free higher education, amazing employment rates and early retirement with cushy pensions.

> 2nd Referendum, 3rd Referendum, where does it end?
> Have the Euro 2016 Football Final replayed if the
> losing team aren't happy, it sets a bad precedent.
> The date was set for the Referendum, you make your
> choice, cross the box, and the result was what it
> was. *****Prepares myself for forum execution
> *****

I haven't signed a petition for a 2nd ref, and I never will, since this was a democratic election with a democratic result. What is sickening is that we're now going to leave, and Boris Johnson and Michael Gove haven't got a clue what to do next. Nobody has. They didn't plan for this at all, they threw everything at getting a result without stepping back and working out a cohesive strategy. Nigel Farage probably has a plan, but it's probably something unsavoury and it's for the best that he's not going to be allowed to get involved with any further negotiations. Whomever ends up as the new Tory leader is going to cop it almost immediately, because they'll have blood on their hands either way. Don't activate article 50, and face the uproar from Farage's little England army. Activate it, and face the uproar from everybody else as well as a subsequent economic meltdown (and the prospect of losing Northern Ireland and Scotland).

I am fine with the fact that people have disdain for the EU's bureaucratic process, but anyone who voted Leave has waived their right to moan about it, as far as I'm concerned. They didn't want to try to stick around and change things for the better.

EDIT: Please don't take this as an attack, you voted for what you believed in and I appreciate that.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 12:39AM by Incident 2k9.
Re: Brexit
Date: June 27, 2016 01:20AM
Posted by: mortal



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 01:21AM by mortal.
Re: Brexit
Date: June 27, 2016 05:43PM
Posted by: davidm
>> So - it's actually happening!

I admit I find it surprising. I voted Leave, because I didn't feel particularly strongly either way, but I decided that when in doubt, a change is probably good. But I thought that most people would vote for the safe option, and it was both surprising and interesting that overall they didn't.

Now there's talk of a General Election, and another Independence Referendum in Scotland too... It's going to be interesting to see how things play out over the next few months. <<

I appreciate you are one of the very respected members of this community, however I feel your post is beyond reason. I think your logic is worse than those under educated individuals who are now searching Google as to what it all means. To say you didn't feel strongly either way and then go for leave to see what change feels like, well you can't go back the other way if you don't like it. Why on earth would you vote if you don't have an opinion. God knows how many were like you. Clearly I wasn't for Brexit.
Re: Brexit
Date: June 27, 2016 11:16PM
Posted by: Muks_C
mortal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I watched a video of a Brit girl saying she was
> voting leave because eggs. Yes, that's right,
> because of eggs. Secondly, because Britain would
> not be in the football so she wouldn't have to
> watch it with her boyfriend. Thirdly, that she
> would no longer be able to go to Paris Disneyland
> to see Minnie and Mickey because the borders would
> be closed, people won't be able to get in or out.
>


i'm sure this is a fake/prank video. i've seen it, and many similar other ones from the same girl and her boyfriend.

this is a truly awful situation we're in. i'm in north-west england, and i work daily with many people from around the world (i work for Johnson & Johnson, massive global company) and it enriches us all to work with people different to ourselves, from other parts of the world. yet it's also a shame to see some of the lower skilled jobs in my building occupied by narrow-minded locals who have never even left the town they were born and grew up and now still live and work in. some people haven't even been to London, ffs! and it's mostly these people i've heard commenting how good it is to "make britain great again", "take back our country", and other thinly veiled xenohobic comments. at the same time they work with Poles, Hungarians, and asians.

the thing that saddens me most, and makes me think this country has taken a massive backwards step, is the blatant racist behaviour that has suddenly broken out on the streets up and down our country. we have put this country back 50 or 60 years, and have shown the world we are a backwards-looking, inwards-looking, uncompassionate island of people.

that 46 million people were registered to vote, and only 33m did vote, and the leave campaign won by less than 1.4millions, is shocking and disgusting. i imagine the majority of those that didn't vote would have been remain supporters if they were pushed for an opinion, because the leave voters would have definitely made it their priority to cast their vote, as they are the ones voting for the change to the status quo and so would have been enthused to vote, whereas apathy would have struck the remainers who might not have actually thought the leave campaign would win and that their vote wouldn't have made a difference.

i am flabbergasted that a public vote was ever allowed to happen, and the campaigns have had literally *NO* facts upon which to base your opinion. i'm no politics expert by any means, i take very little interest in it in general until a general election is due. i also work with people in their 30s who have never voted! never!!

is this the new culture of politics, or society in general? that popularity, personality and soundbites are what we base important decisions on? the candidates didn't even seem to feel a necessity to provide *any* information, or facts, on either side of the argument. people were seduced by characters such as Boris and Farage, without looking at what policies they promoted (non-existent).

it's harsh to say the public are generally stupid or ignorant and shouldn't be asked to vote on matters of such importance that will affect the rest of my generation's lives, but when people say "well, i voted out just for a laugh" or "to see what would happen", you have to wonder if they are informed enough to do so (these comments from people i've spoken to at work). some people i've spoken to have even said "well let's try it, and rejoin if it doesn't go well". they are too stupid to understand this is an irreversible decision! this was not on the scale of a general election, where we can get another government in 5 years!!! others have said "don't get too upset, it'll be a while before it upsets us." do you have a bank account? do you understand the currency has dropped through the floor in 3 days? it's affecting us NOW. people who didn't vote have also said "i don't know which way to vote as i don't have enough information". inform yourself then! words fail me.

anyone under 50 in the UK doesn't know a world or a life being out of the EU, we are all born after we were already a part of it or we were so young when we joined we have no understanding of life without it, so how can we wish we could go back to, or go forward to, our country being outside the EU? what hardships have we personally suffered as a direct consequence of us being in the EU? none of us can name a single one, yet so many of my peers voted out as if it's a badge of patriotism and their duty to do so, and that voting to remain meant we were weak and brainwashed into supporting Brussels to make our decisions for our future for us.

i believe anyone over 60 shouldn't have been allowed to vote, as they are pretty much at the end of their working life and if they haven't set up their life already for their retirement, then neither outcome was going to help them prosper further than they've managed to so far.

and now leave voters are realising the impact of the outcome and are regretting voting leave. thank you very @#$%& much.




RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 11:22PM by Muks_C.
Re: Brexit
Date: June 27, 2016 11:30PM
Posted by: mortal
I agree with you 100%. The young have been royally screwed with the outcome of the vote. Prior to the vote I spoke to rellies on Skype who all said they were voting leave. My response was "careful what you wish for."

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