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no worries
my post was mainly directed at the guys using this argument before

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

I'll run only if my team won't run!! :D If there's a slot for One, I'll choose be a team owner!


One Racing driver and team manager
GPGSL-3: champion in 2007/2013/2014!
GPGSL-4: testdrivers champion in Season 11!

Official GPGSL Championship Tables

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2010 01:13AM by GPGSL.

old/wrong tables, Stu.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Bloody Imageshack! Sorted now



5 x WCC - S5, S6, S7, S8, S10 | 4 x WDC - S5 Nick van der Voort ; S6, S7, S8 Ed Greenhalgh | 2 x WTC - S6 Stuart Ingers; S8 Andrei Sevastian

yeah, thanks

well ....looks like we have an interesting last third of the season on our hands,

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Threatening to leave the series is a bit extreme, just because of a rule shakeup to make other people have a chance. You have to question the lloyalty there - are they here just because they are winning? Toys out the pram a bit... Just saying!

Sure, when you are doing well you don't want to let that good feeling go - but I will say again, that good feeling has been had frequently by a lot of the same old people, and shows no obvious signs of dwindling given the current rules and way things are panning out.

This shakeup will just let some other people have a chance. A little flush, job done.

When it comes down to it, the current system really was fine. All that needed was a little reset as per season 1 or 2, and go again, with a few seasons when different teams end up on top etc. Keep driver perfs the same though, maybe lower them all universally or something.

Trouble is most of the big players and teams moaned that it wasn't fair blah etc.

So, everyone talked, and now we've made it much more intricate and complicated. And more changes. Either way, it will happen one way or another.

The bottom line is the GPGSL needs this shakeup, the same predictable outcomes are slightly stagnated. It is going to disadvantage some, benefit others. The same things being moaned at about a shakeup are the same outcomes that benefitted the current good teams and disadvantaged some of the lower ones when this whole thing began.

After all this time, do you not think those teams are a bit bored of it? But they aren't quitting... they've been patient! And now when the shoe is on the other foot and the quick guys face the opportunity they might not do so well, they make threats to quit and leave.

So do we question who is more lloyal - those here through the good AND bad times; or those just here for the rewards?

At the end of the day this is a fantasy sim game. It isn't real. The main aim is to have fun.

Does it matter if your teammate is suddenly not who you want it to be? No. Or the team owner? Nope.

All that matters is keeping it fun, above everything else. Nobody, none of the background guys putting in all the effort running the race sims and posting the results and making it all work is paid a penny. It is all in the name of entertainment. In the name of FUN!

And for some of us, that fun is fading. So for the common good of it, can't people see through it and realise it is way more fun when EVERYONE is having fun, not just a few special people.

Give others a chance!

*NOTE I do agree, too many changes might make people moan, and quit. So yes, a repeat of the WGP/W300 situation is possible, but only if people throw tantrums. The manager shuffle is a logical and easy way to free just a FEW places, which is all we need. Heck, why not just do a direct swap with the current main driver or tester in your team if you have to go to your own. Give them the seat you were originally in! Problem easily solved, and saves people being made redundant..

It just gives us a refreshing shift around! 4 or 5 of these will have a big impact!


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2010 07:38AM by danm.

well ok then, i tend to agree again

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"If in doubt, Flat out."

Sepang Race Drivers Perf

** GP3edit - Performance File **

[Team #00]
Name=Shadow,Subaru
Performance=810,830,633
First Driver=1,Philip Oakley,16166,514,16229,481
Second Driver=2,Ed Greenhalgh,16147,519,16235,469

[Team #01]
Name=MPR,Lancia
Performance=810,830,602
First Driver=3,Marko Aleksander,16180,492,16181,527
Second Driver=4,Monil Santilal,16141,510,16153,534

[Team #02]
Name=IED,Maserati
Performance=812,832,1200
First Driver=5,Rick Groeneboer,16084,558,16111,559
Second Driver=6,Keeley Grant,16094,545,16108,565

[Team #03]
Name=Velox,Velox
Performance=814,834,1100
First Driver=7,Nick van der Voort,16145,510,16195,493
Second Driver=8,Matt Houston,16175,482,16175,511

[Team #04]
Name=Alpha,Ford
Performance=795,815,742
First Driver=9,Stefan van Renselaar,16067,568,16089,575
Second Driver=10,Alexandre Koemmerer,16073,552,16092,563

[Team #05]
Name=VSM,Seat
Performance=787,807,775
First Driver=11,Ricardo van Smirren,16069,588,16109,581
Second Driver=12,John Warrington,16071,587,16118,575

[Team #06]
Name=DXR,Ferrari
Performance=796,816,1100
First Driver=14,Stu Ingers,16109,580,16139,576
Second Driver=15,Byron van het Bolscher,16105,575,16121,589

[Team #07]
Name=DFR,Alfa-Romeo
Performance=794,814,900
First Driver=16,Christopher Hinz,16052,577,16083,577
Second Driver=17,Maikel de Boer,16047,579,16079,576

[Team #08]
Name=Lucky Seven,Mazda
Performance=796,816,738
First Driver=18,Ross Cartwright,16070,569,16089,577
Second Driver=19,Randy Winston,16063,569,16082,580

[Team #09]
Name=TNR,BMW
Performance=794,814,747
First Driver=20,Norbert Horváth,16059,573,16079,582
Second Driver=21,Tim van Dijck,16056,574,16078,583

[Team #10]
Name=Phoenix,Honda
Performance=795,815,900
First Driver=22,Mal Stoddart,16084,562,16119,562
Second Driver=23,Paolo Tafuro,16038,587,16076,564

[File]
Version=215

[Tyres]
Team #00=1
Team #01=0
Team #02=1
Team #03=0
Team #04=1
Team #05=1
Team #06=0
Team #07=1
Team #08=1
Team #09=1
Team #10=1

[Gears]
Team #00=7
Team #01=7
Team #02=7
Team #03=7
Team #04=7
Team #05=7
Team #06=7
Team #07=7
Team #08=7
Team #09=7
Team #10=7

Sepang Test Drivers Perf

** GP3edit - Performance File **

[Team #00]
Name=Shadow,Subaru
Performance=810,830,633
First Driver=24,Zsigmond Somogyi,16128,508,16166,502
Second Driver=25,Ruben Greidanus,16094,533,16129,529

[Team #01]
Name=MPR,Lancia
Performance=810,830,602
First Driver=26,Dan Paddock,16141,535,16174,534
Second Driver=27,Rodrigo Vilela,16108,519,16140,517

[Team #02]
Name=IED,Maserati
Performance=812,832,1200
First Driver=28,Jethro Walters,16107,542,16146,539
Second Driver=29,Florian Fischeder,16075,545,16106,544

[Team #03]
Name=Velox,Velox
Performance=814,834,1100
First Driver=30,Adam Davies,16126,524,16164,516
Second Driver=31,John Maverick,16059,561,16094,556

[Team #04]
Name=Alpha,Ford
Performance=795,815,742
First Driver=32,Ben Brown,16002,589,16036,583
Second Driver=33,Jack Elleker,16059,566,16090,566

[Team #05]
Name=VSM,Seat
Performance=787,807,775
First Driver=34,Charrel Jalving,16063,568,16092,567
Second Driver=12,John Warrington,16071,587,16118,575

[Team #06]
Name=DXR,Ferrari
Performance=796,816,1100
First Driver=36,Ashley Teagle,16024,596,16054,596
Second Driver=37,Glen Sheppard,16023,597,16053,597

[Team #07]
Name=DFR,Alfa-Romeo
Performance=794,814,900
First Driver=38,Joel Henrique,16063,587,16093,587
Second Driver=39,Chris Copeman,16026,594,16056,594

[Team #08]
Name=Lucky Seven,Mazda
Performance=796,816,738
First Driver=40,Ben Johnson,16070,600,16100,600
Second Driver=41,Dean Kittleson,16020,600,16050,600

[Team #09]
Name=TNR,BMW
Performance=794,814,747
First Driver=42,Dan Mills,16072,563,16104,563
Second Driver=43,Raymond Buijs,16022,598,16052,598

[Team #10]
Name=Phoenix,Honda
Performance=795,815,900
First Driver=44,Kevin Schroeder,16075,578,16112,578
Second Driver=45,Nathan McGregor,16032,588,16062,588

[File]
Version=215

[Tyres]
Team #00=1
Team #01=0
Team #02=1
Team #03=0
Team #04=1
Team #05=1
Team #06=0
Team #07=1
Team #08=1
Team #09=1
Team #10=1

[Gears]
Team #00=7
Team #01=7
Team #02=7
Team #03=7
Team #04=7
Team #05=7
Team #06=7
Team #07=7
Team #08=7
Team #09=7
Team #10=7

Team Boosts

IED,Maserati +5
Velox,Velox +4
DXR,Ferrari +4
DFR,Alfa-Romeo +2
Phoenix,Honda +2

Driver Boosts

Stuart Ingers
Byron van het Bolscher
Dan Paddock
Adam Davies
Joel Henrique
Ben Johnson

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Argh I'm 5th and TSS are 3rd. At least Phoenix are doing OK, I guess. Hope we do better next year, we've got big plans for Phoenix!

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Order a giffgaff SIM from my link and get £5 credit, free!
Season 1 and Season 3 GPGSL World Champion!
Member of CTDP - Cars Tracks Development Program - 3D Carshaper

Is there an upto date boost table I have missed as I'm not sure how many I have left?

The perfs will be checked a little later than usual, it'll probably be tomorrow night. I don't have Excel right now, but will have tomorrow.

I'll answer your question then Adam, if it hasn't been done by then.

Ta

Danm wrote:
> *NOTE I do agree, too many changes might make
> people moan, and quit. So yes, a repeat of the
> WGP/W300 situation is possible, but only if people
> throw tantrums. The manager shuffle is a logical
> and easy way to free just a FEW places, which is
> all we need. Heck, why not just do a direct swap
> with the current main driver or tester in your
> team if you have to go to your own. Give them the
> seat you were originally in! Problem easily
> solved, and saves people being made redundant..
>
> It just gives us a refreshing shift around! 4 or 5
> of these will have a big impact!

Dude, thats EXACTLY what i said...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"If in doubt, Flat out."

adamdavies_8 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there an upto date boost table I have missed as
> I'm not sure how many I have left?


After Sepang you will have 1 boost left Adam.



5 x WCC - S5, S6, S7, S8, S10 | 4 x WDC - S5 Nick van der Voort ; S6, S7, S8 Ed Greenhalgh | 2 x WTC - S6 Stuart Ingers; S8 Andrei Sevastian

Nickv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As for the new teambosses rule, first: READ, READ,
> READ. If you don't read, don't post your opinion,
> please. Teambosses are NOT banned from driving.
> The only obligation is that they drive for their
> own teams.
> Initially we did want to ban them from racing,
> because that would free up some seats and some
> teamslots. That caused a lot of resistance, so we
> decided not to do it. Sending teambosses to their
> own teams will free up seats at mostly top teams,
> which will give other people a chance at those
> teams too. Secondly, it's more realistic. You
> won't see Ross Brawn racing for Renault, right?
> Since this wouldn't free up as many seats as
> banning the teambosses from driving, not as many
> testers will come into the series. Therefore we'll
> have some races for testers thoughout the season
> to keep them entertained.

I'm still massively opposed to that. The biggest topic throughout the whole of the last few seasons has been how new guys can't get into the main series! Just doing a half arsed job and forcing all team managers back to their own teams will mean there are seats which will almost certainly NEVER change. If a guy drives for his own team then he's not gonna sack or replace himself. That makes it harder if anything for new guys to get into the series and promote driver movements in the long term.

No offence to Nick, you know I think the time you put into the series is great, but you're a little biased in this situation as you nor your team will be affected by the new rules. Team managers MUST be banned from driving in the series in order to make this fair.

speaking from the point of view of someone who only recently entered the series I must admit I did find it a little bit odd that you could own a team but then drive for another. At first I thought (With no offence intended) that this seemed like having your cake and eating it also. From my own view point I have no problems with driving for my own team, (Again no offence intended) but I wouldn't want to setup and enter my own team only then to drive for somebody else. Because Im not racing in the main series I don't really feel qualified to comment on the whole 'team owners should only be testers' thing but the only advantage I can see for it is that it will allow team owners to still build up perf files as drivers should they one day decide to drop their team and re-enter as a race driver.

I have had a thought though about a potential solution should it turn out the team owners are allowed to race for their own teams, and I'm not saying this is what should happen, just putting the idea out there. I wondered if there would be anyway of boosting a team that a team owner went back to. An example in plain english would work like this...

- You win the world championship with one of the top teams this year and your team finishes say 7th or 8th in the constructors standings. Obviously to win the world championship you must have done relatively well and have a half decent perf. With the new rule introduced for the following season you have to return to your own team and drive for them...so the fact that you were world champion and had a decent perf file bumps your teams points up to start with. In theory this narrows the gap between the front of the grid and the rear.

I say again just an idea...probably well wide of the mark...but hopefully some catalyst for discussion.

I am, 100% behind Tom on this one. The midway ground is just not enough and it will just make matters worse, team owners will not sack themselves. Of course, there are a few team owners who are only in the team just to make up the numbers, which I think is great use of the team manager. But yeah, either don't ban them at all or ban them from racing. One or the other, not inbetween.

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Team Owner of ItalianEnglish Dynamics in GPG Super League
GP4 Season 5: 7) Jethro Walters. 8) Zsigmond Somogyi. TD) Stuart Ingers and Joel Henrique
GP3 Season 5: 14) Nathan Turner. 15) Tobias Kederer.
6 Time Race Winners

It boils down to the guys currently with an advantage not wanting to give a little to the lesser performers to catchup, in the name of keeping it fair and letting others play.

I just find that a bit mean, and frankly, kinda selfish.

Some people will lose out a bit, but others are not going to massively gain either.

I see what Tom is saying now too - that does make sense, about once in your own team, you are more likely to stay there. I agree. That is a problem that I didn't see.

So in which case, how to counter this?

Guys are complaining they don't want to be made to move teams...

Guys might find themselves bound to a team they don't want to stay with...

Guys are complaining they can't move teams...

etc...

SO!

Banish the driving for your own team rule. You can drive ANYWHERE!

BUT

Why not enforce another rule, that you can only stay in the same team for say, 2 or 3 season stints? That enforces some sort of shakeup.

Drivers can keep their accumulated performance values, but would be forced to take them to another team after a while.

It means the drivers don't lose out their efforts; and also compliments the fact that introducing a new driver to another team would give different teams increased chances or glory; or lessen those who were previously on top.

Regarding it not introducing testers, sure, I agree, the previous systems have big flaws, as pointed by Tom. Good spot!

So how to combat this?

Well, the introduction of a handful of test races would be one way.

The other I think would be to force the testers to have one race or two a season replacement with the main guys, by 'injury' or 'illness'.

This race/ or races would be decided before the first round, whereby whoever the main tester was at the time would be filled in. Regardless of the championship situation, pre-determined and set in stone. Or they could be called at pre-race weekends like a boost. A sudden illness announcement.

I think that would be quite exciting, as an important weekend to grab points could be up for grabs by rival teams in championship battles.

This lets us see testers perform in real time, and makes them approachable for the following season.

A random test drive, a la Vettel or de la Rosa might make people see they are better than the current driver - so they are likely to be replaced, thus creating a good way to catalse the test market.

The trouble I think is a mix of lloyalty with friends not wanting to 'demote' their friends to a lower role; and also the unknown of testers in par with current racers.

What do you think to this idea?

I am very for the forcing of 'ill' and 'injury' races in the season.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

Right now the GPGSL is locked into voting on the recommendations we have. Only one voter remains to vote, then I will count up the final votes and we'll make an announcement on what's in and what's not for S5.
I do like the idea of forced ill or injury for races, however who decides and how are the teams chosen? I can't say "Right then, this race Phillip Oakley is going to have a case of peritonitis and Zak will drive instead, and I have a shocker of a hangover and too drunk to drive so Kev gets the drive this weekend". That's a conflict of interest if ever I saw one. A good idea, but how to implement the forced retirements fairly?
I think we will stick with what we have and the new rules for S5, we really need to see how it will pan out for everyone, whether or not there is any noticeable difference. If we are still not happy with it, we can of course have another look at it towards the end of S5, as we are doing now.
I'm against banning team owners from racing, I know it's the best of both worlds for those that have a team, and Tom has made a very valid point on team owners driving their own teams.
I think there are nine team owners driving, is that right? I'd prefer to make it voluntary that a team owner give up his seat, let's maybe see some spirit for the rest of the guys that would like to have a go at the pointy end of the league. I'll throw down the gauntlet and announce that as my team is next on the list for a grid slot, when it enters I will retire as a race driver. That way I can devote my time to team strategy instead of racing.

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