About physics & Damage.ini...

Hello.
I was just thinking about what happens when two cars collide..

Think that there's a car sidewards in the middle of the track. There is another one coming at 250KPH, driver cannot see the car that's stopped. They crash into each other, what do you think would happen..?

In GP4, most likely, the car which is coming at full speed, would stop, and the other one would move about 20 meters depending on the situation. This is stupid imo.

In real life, at least the car coming at 250KPH WOULDN'T stop right there, but would either stuck with the other car, and they both would move until they reach the tyre barrier or some kind of wall. Or maybe something else.. I don't know.

Maybe the most common accident between AI cars is that when two cars are heading to a tight curve, the first one brakes earlier and the car behind crashes into the car in front of. In GP4, the car behind will either stop, or spin. The first one will drive out of the track, most likely.

Again, it's really stupid when the other car just stops and the other gains some extra speed and loses it's rear wing.

So, what I'm chasing is that is it possible to make the cars not to "bounce" when they collide, but stuck and crash into a wall together.

Ok, I found out that there's a Damage.ini included in the settings folder in Tony & Co's never mods.
Here's what inside it:

[Damage]
;the comment is the game default value.
;it's not necessary to have it, but it might be good for reference
DamageCarsBounce =32 ;32
DamageWalls =7424 ;7424
DamageCars =8192 ;8192
DamageWallsBounce =16 ;16
NoseCone =2 ;2
RightWing =130 ;130
LeftWing =130 ;130
RightWingFence =66 ;66
LeftWingFence =66 ;66
RightFrontSuspension =136 ;136
RightFrontWheel =136 ;136
LeftFrontSuspension =68 ;68
LeftFrontWheel =68 ;68
RightSidePod =8 ;8
LeftSidepod =4 ;4
CarRear =12 ;12
RightRearSuspension =34 ;34
RightRearWheel =34 ;34
LeftRearSuspension =17 ;17
LeftRearWheel =17 ;17
EntireRearWing =256 ;256
RightRearWing =256 ;256
LeftRearWing =256 ;256
TopRearWing =256 ;256
LeftBargeBoard =8 ;8
RightBargeBoard =4 ;4

Okay, what I would like to know is how this works, see the line
DamageCarsBounce =32 ;32.

I thought that this could make the game bit more the way I like it. But what values to insert..? Between which..?

Could someone explain this a bit.
Thanks.

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HD SUZUKA - MENU ADDONS - ONBOARD CAMERAS - VIDS

Physics time!

Momentum = Mass x Velocity

We know that the car weighs about 650kg (I think can't remember what the regs are with driver), and we know the velocity (presuming it's a side on impact as you describe). If both cars weigh the same... the only difference is the velocity, If both cars stick together at the end of it, then the velocity afterwards should be half (125kph), ignoring other forces such as friction etc. However we should consider it an elastic equation (bounce) when we consider the kinetic forces (momentum), which determines how they react afterwards (whether they bounce or stick). So presumably the car/wall bounce value here is a stickability value.

Anyways, to answer your question, Nobody knows what values do what at the moment, you'll just have to test it!

Sorry Fongu, but my English knowledge added with Physics could be a lot better. ;/
But thanks for your reply.
However why is there that kind of .ini if nobody knows what it does..?

E: Stupid smiley...

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HD SUZUKA - MENU ADDONS - ONBOARD CAMERAS - VIDS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2007 01:56PM by SilverBlaze.

because someone might test it and understand it

I found those values in gp4 and added a feature for people to test what those values do exactly.
The comment (;number) is just so you don't have to save the originals in a seperate text file.
For example, if you change it like this:
DamageCarsBounce =500 ;32
DamageWallsBounce =500 ;16
You will probably end up with a gp4 pinball machine.
It's up to other people to find more realistic numbers for damage.
I build the tools, and others should do the modding :P
It should be safe to experiment as you can easily revert to the original values.

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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Are some of those numbers not contact points around 0 or something? 0 being the centre of the car?

Cause why would the left rear wheel be half the value of the right rear wheel??

Edit - Yeah, maybe not around the centre of the car, but I know what I'm meaning.

Oh, I forgot to ask, is it possible to apply values without using CSM..?

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HD SUZUKA - MENU ADDONS - ONBOARD CAMERAS - VIDS

Viper-F1.com Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are some of those numbers not contact points
> around 0 or something? 0 being the centre of the
> car?
>
> Cause why would the left rear wheel be half the
> value of the right rear wheel??
>
> Edit - Yeah, maybe not around the centre of the
> car, but I know what I'm meaning.

Or maybe because most tracks are move clockwise and geoff didn't want you to lose your left wheels all the time and almost never the right ones, as the chances are much bigger having a big impact at your left side.
Just a guess though..


SilverBlaze Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, I forgot to ask, is it possible to apply
> values without using CSM..?


No

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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

When I tried editing these values, they seen to actually prevent the edited thing from getting damage. The ONLY thing that I saw had a noticeable increase in effect was the bounce values. For me, changing the other values meant that the car wouldn't be damaged at all, or other weird phenomenon. I'm not sure what the ranges are, but I'm guessing it's in the hundreds. Setting it too high yielded results as I've mentioned.

Maybe its tied together, so if you change one value, the other has to be changed in the same scope?

Not sure though. I've just never tried to crash!! LOL!!!

So we just need some people to make some tests.

I cannot because I am working on tracks

I'm working on it and I hope soon to pull out some good numbers and info.
Bye

ROAR

i´ll ask my brother to do some crash tests. his gp4 experience mainly consists of trying to crash as heavily as possible at eau rouge

Well after more and less a week of crash tests I came out with something.
As autogyro said the bounces values are the one that react as you can predict (higher values means pinball).
The walldamage and cardamage represents the chance for you to retire after a collision with a wall or a car (it could be useful to avoid crazy things like you hit hard a wall with, lose a tyre and your enginge is still good to bring you back to the pits... unrealistic).
Other values I'll try to figure out, but it seems there is non effect, but I will test again.
Anyway it seems that the right side of the car is stronger (by default) that the other one.
I'll be in touch.

Bye

ROAR

Thanks for information Keep it up..maybe we can improve the damage effects.

I just changed these:
RightWing =130 ;130
LeftWing =130 ;130
RightWingFence =66 ;66
LeftWingFence =66 ;66

Allright I put big numbers for right section and very low for the left one.
I can hit cars very strongly with the right part of the car and I get no damage, but if I hit them with the left part the entire front wing crashes.
I tried to hit the wall with very high / very low numbers for both the sides, but nothing happens so it seems that this values are not connected to how much rigid is the part they belong to... very strange, I haven't got any idea about this behaviour...

Bye

ROAR

Guys, it's more than a month that I'm playing with this numbers and in the end I have to come up with some conclusions. The conclusion is that the first four numbers have a meaning, the other ones are pretty meaningless or - better - obscure.
Explanation:
DamageCarsBounce / DamageWallsBounce: these are about how the car bump (or bounce) after hitting a wall or a car - higher numbers bring Carmageddon-pinball-mode on the track, lower numbers just don't amplify the bumping. When cars are involved the effect is on both of them.
DamageWalls / DamageCars: these two affect the chance of retirement when you hit a wall / a car, they DON'T affect how the car crashes / is damaged. Lower numbers mean that the softest touch will stop the engine of your car. When cars are involved the effect is on both of them.
My advice for realistic nowadays F1 MOD is:
DamageCarsBounce =16 ;32
DamageWalls =3700 ;7424
DamageCars =4100 ;8192
DamageWallsBounce =4 ;16
This should prevent things like when you hit hardly a wall and then you lose a tyre & suspension and you're able to drive and pit.
Other numbers, as I said, are obscure: I guess that some of them are about angles/positions involved in a crash and some other are about stiffness of car parts, but I'm not able to pull out anything interesting. We will see: once we will get a complete picture of this file, we will be able to write down damage.inis fitting any type of sport-car.

Bye

ROAR

Cool Thanks for this investigation

Could you maybe also post the default values so we can compare them to yours? Maybe post them together with your edited values in one post to have it at one sight.

If I understand correctly, you say that we can improve the damage physics by editing these values, right? If we make test and the behaviour does not get more realsitic than by default then it makes no sense to make more tests...but if your values are better then of cours yes. Just want to know if other values really can bring better results.

Good stuff, thanks for that

@Martin - the second number is the default
DamageWallsBounce =4 ;16

____
Tony

Ruboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I understand correctly, you say that we can
> improve the damage physics by editing these
> values, right? If we make test and the behaviour
> does not get more realsitic than by default then
> it makes no sense to make more tests...but if your
> values are better then of cours yes. Just want to
> know if other values really can bring better
> results.

Well, I think is possible to improve it, not 100% realistic damage physics but something more accurate than Grand Prix 4 original one.
The point is that I'm not able to figure out exactly what other values mean... as a matter of fact I was playing with this numbers:

RightFrontSuspension =136 ;136
RightFrontWheel =136 ;136
LeftFrontSuspension =68 ;68
LeftFrontWheel =68 ;68

Before testing them I was thinking about them as stiffness factors or how much rigid the parts involved are, but I discovered using big numbers on the left side and low numbers on the right side that when I hit into a wall with the left part of my car the right tyre & suspension just crash away. Therefore these numbers are about positions of collision or something related to the transfer of energy involved in a crash between the two sides of the car.
That's all for now - I'll keep crashing everywhere.

Bye

ROAR