Evidence . Nicola & carshape makers come in.

Facts speaks louder that words.

Any carshapers should have knowladges about triangle and quadrangle , how to set edges within quadrangles is a very important thing.

Everyone can make judgements of his own.

I have the expriecne of modify one shape into another , so I know these sameness should not be coincidence

Nicola , I need you making explication about these pictures.

Q1:Can you tell me why on both the safebelt , the upper part have 4 segments , and the lower part has 3 segments.

N.=Nicola's
E.=Mine.

N.


E.



A Racing and Rail fan.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2007 08:49AM by Enzojz.

Q2:Why did these edges at center become in same direction.
Q3:Why did you set two edges together as the same I did?

N.


E.


A Racing and Rail fan.

Q4:Why did it again become the same?the two belts.
I think we have never done a work which have so many sameness.

N.


E.


A Racing and Rail fan.

Q5:Why did this time, both the two edges turned to another direction same as I did on mine car? What the reason you changed the direction?

N.


E.


A Racing and Rail fan.

Q6:

Why did this part of the cockpit are in the same shaepe?Why did the edges goes the same again? And I want to see your reference pictures.

N.


E.


A Racing and Rail fan.

The five above are the most obvious evidences, I have other evidences but I don't want to show , because I think they are not good enough to support my opinion.

If you are interested in it , you can open my F2005 lod0 and Nicola's 248 LOD0 , and explorer the edges on the safebelt , you will find nearly all the edges are the same , the only different is the postion of the vertix.

Please Nicola reply my questions.

-------------------------
3 extra


Considering that the mapping is doen after shaping, how it comes that the shape is not completly the same but the mapping is almost the same?


Mapping the belt will cost about 30 minutes' work, we also have a reason to use others to save time.

and you can make a deep explore into the mapping , just minutes ago (while writing this reply) there' was a new discovery to support my doubt , look at this:

any words want to say? trying to map the same is nearly impossible in ZM coz you can't input the coordinates.

You can expriment with yourself , just import the two cars and map ferr_int and ferrari_3


Q1:
Why did the segments' height and the belt width fits well?


Q2:
I want to know the way Nicola make the belt straight ,and why didn't he make the other straight.


Q3:
If I remove the unstraight one away..
I want to know, why the mapping of the 2nd segment and 3rd segment has a same unflat?



A Racing and Rail fan.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2007 04:40PM by Enzojz.

maybe enzojz & nic should make a ferrari f2007 together or something

---

never. Nicola will never work with an "idiot".

A Racing and Rail fan.

no one an idiot here not even u

---

Most of your evidence (Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5 and Q6) is based upon the way you start your first triangle. You both began at the same point so your edges will always point the same direction. Just look at the noses of every f1 car we've made. I've checked a few other seatbelts and found that half of them uses your edge direction and the other half the opposite.

Q1 is interesting. It shows how much you both are eager to get the shape perfect. You need the right dimensions and the right curves to have the belts follow the shape of the body. You both found the best way to do that and managed to have a fair use of polies.

Q6 Nicola has told a couple of times before he has a model of the car and he has his own huge library of pics like all carshapers do.

Frrom your pictures it's clear to see Nicola's model has better normals and is slightly rotated to fit the body of the driver in a more realistic way. It's a lot of extra work to do both of these actions (rotating/reshaping/repositioning and fix normals). It's something I would never do, I'd rather create one of my own to save time and nerves. I'm sure the more experienced modelers agree with me.

The main point I find disturbing is that if you knew Nicola in person you would never ever have come to your accusations...

I made a ZM file with both belts in it so it's clear for all to see and to judge:
click



[1991] [2003] [2004] [gp2 world series]

A bit far searched enzo dont you think?

Maybe you are the cheater here :O look at this! :



It goes exactly the same way, omfg, oh noes! Enzojz took parts of terraurs car!

Come on guys!!!! This is really getting pathetic!!!! We are a COMMUNITY!!!!!!! We're meant to be all supportive and appreciative!!! We can't be bickering cause we all use the same equipment to make cars. We all use the same principles from the Zmodeller FAQs. COME ON GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!! HELP EACH OTHER OUT!!!!!! DONT STAB EACH OTHER IN THE BACKS!!!!!!!!!!!

this evidence it's irrelevant, nicola rocks
maybe you need take a rest.


...:::ViVa MeXiCo CaBrOnEs:::...

well honestly...teraur's and enzojz shape is both smooth but i really prefer enzojz mp420..just look first on his windtunnel....and uhm...

boah,guys,c`mon...Enzo has done a lot for this community and he just want to show his point of view and for sure Nicola is the other part, counterpart one guys says well, but people,please, don´t say : "Enzo,go away" or " you´re an Idiot" !
I don´t really support this behave of making private things puplic,but sometimes it´s constructive...
I have no real position in these argument and I support both,because BOTH have done a great job over the complete years !
So,just stay quiet and let nicola and enzo discuss that alone and let´s see what happens !
Everyone makes a mistake, and I mean both of you, Enzo and Nicola, could have avoid these argument,but sometimes it´s very good to show what happens to the community too, so please try to sort out your problems with another and then go on with respecting each other, because you BOTH, and I can only repeat that, are making very great cars and you BOTH have a big place in the hearts of the community members !
So please, and I call to the not relevant postings from some guys here, let them both discuss it without unnecessary posts and don´t influence them,please !
thanks and please,Enzo AND nicola, sort this out in the fastest way and go on with respecting the work of each other,we´re a community,so we ALL stick together !

Yeah, I know your point, Enzo. I've been a shaper looooong time before you started shaping, so I know exactly what you're talking about. Infact, what got Nic so angry is not your point about the shape, but your attitude towards it. There's diferent ways to say something, and the one you used in that PM isn't definitely the best one. That's it.
About the shape, as I already wrote on the other topic, it takes loads more time to adapt an already made seat belt to a new drivers body tha making your own. Nic's an experienced modeler, do you really think he doesn't know that? Just try guessing how many hours it would take to adapt your belts to Nic's driver, rotate all the parts, correct the normals and then even remapping it! The edges pointing in the same direction don't prove anything, mate. If you do a plane or a box with Zmod, edges will always point in the same direction. Same for the attaches. The ones on the left side have the same edges as everyone would rotate the first one in the new position. And left/right parts ar simmetrical as everyone does just one side and then mirrors it! Oh, and about Q3, where is the poly inside the metal part in Nic's?
I know Nic, and we talked on the phone yesterday, just when all this happened. He was angry, but also sad and really disappointed. How would you feel, after passing a whole year working during your little spare time on a project, if someone comes up and accuses you of being a leecher? Now you are probably gonna loose Nic and his great works.

_Erix_ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of your evidence (Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5 and Q6) is
> based upon the way you start your first triangle.
> You both began at the same point so your edges
> will always point the same direction. Just look at
> the noses of every f1 car we've made. I've checked
> a few other seatbelts and found that half of them
> uses your edge direction and the other half the
> opposite.
>
> Q1 is interesting. It shows how much you both are
> eager to get the shape perfect. You need the right
> dimensions and the right curves to have the belts
> follow the shape of the body. You both found the
> best way to do that and managed to have a fair use
> of polies.
>
> Q6 Nicola has told a couple of times before he has
> a model of the car and he has his own huge library
> of pics like all carshapers do.
>
> Frrom your pictures it's clear to see Nicola's
> model has better normals and is slightly rotated
> to fit the body of the driver in a more realistic
> way. It's a lot of extra work to do both of these
> actions (rotating/reshaping/repositioning and fix
> normals). It's something I would never do, I'd
> rather create one of my own to save time and
> nerves. I'm sure the more experienced modelers
> agree with me.
>
> The main point I find disturbing is that if you
> knew Nicola in person you would never ever have
> come to your accusations...
>
> I made a ZM file with both belts in it so it's
> clear for all to see and to judge:
> click


How can you explain the both changes between Q5 and Q2? It's completely unnecessary!
And Q3, I turned the center one on perpose, on initial, it comes with the lowwer one.

And way did they have the same stages.

for Q6, I want to see the extact image.

for the direction thing , you can check all the faces on the safebelt , nearly all of them are the same.so you think we start every part of the belt in a same way? And the most important point is , can you tell me all the progress of making it?How long did you spent?At what time?What's the first object you made?What's the second?What's the third?

A Racing and Rail fan.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2007 12:23PM by Enzojz.

its sad to think that this is actually happening

two people who both are great modelers in the gp4 community and its over a seat belt, and to me enzojz it seems you've dug yourself a hole, and its only getting deeper...

if you honestly think that nicola and diego would use your work to save a few hours then thats a shame, im sure nicola is a great guy, i know that diego is and he's helped me along the way many a time. im not saying 'go away' 'take a break' etc like others have above but please think about your attitude towards other modders. i find some of your comments rather disrespectful, for example what you said to erix a while back there was no need for it

and from what i can see from those pictures is that they have both been modeled in a similar way, but aren't you both modeling the same thing? i know that nicola and diego have the talent to shape a great car let alone a seatbelt, so like diego said 'It takes loads more time to adapt an already made seat belt to a new drivers body than making your own'

i just hope we dont lose nicola and diego because of this

Iceman-Kimi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A bit far searched enzo dont you think?
>
> Maybe you are the cheater here :O look at this! :
>
> [img248.imageshack.us]
>
>
> It goes exactly the same way, omfg, oh noes!
> Enzojz took parts of terraurs car!
>
>


If you are a carshaper , you must know there's a reason doing like this. If I turn the edges in another direction, the surface will become unsmooth.

A Racing and Rail fan.

carshapers came in:
so the left is a quick one i made in ten minutes:



the "belt" is made by z-modelers option "create tube".
the "metal" thing i shaped myself, or did i modify enzo´s or nic´s one?

so all orientations of the triangles are the same...

matt