Magic Data Discussion

Prblanco schrieb:
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> [...]

Great news to hear that!

CC-cars yielding their position much too early is really a stupid and an anoying issue in GP4 to me. This is the reason, why I recommend to set desc73= "Track sector after which AI cars stop being cautious on 1st lap" / "in-line start range" allways to zero, no matter what track you drive. I do this since several years and never had any problems with that. With a value of zero, the starts are so more realistic!

Hello everybody,

slipstream will still be a recent topic in the next few days. Nevertheless, in the meantime I made some further tests about desc45= "Temperature (degree C) - top speed only affected, minimal effect in corners / acceleration? (17 - 31)".

The question was, whether a hotter air would also influence things like tyre degredation, water temperature, etc. as one would expect in real life. Here are the results:

- Obviously the air temperature is not at all affecting the water temperature at all. Even unrealistic high values don't seem to impress the cooling water, neither it's standard temperature, nor it's rate of change.
- Also, the tyre wear is not influenced by the air temperature. So, there is no need to change soft or hard tyres appropriate to the air temperature.
- As written in the descition text by TomMK, the top speed is quite highly influenced. Just to get a feeling for it, I had the following top speeds at these air temperatures (°C):
0°: 327 km/h
35°: 341 km/h
80°: 355 km/h
- A side effect of the air temperature is that it also affects the grip level. It's maybe a bit crazy, but the hotter the air is, the less grip you have. At "normal" values you will probably just feel a very slightly difference, but at a temperature of 1,000°C your car will swim all across the track. Beside that, it's really no problem for the car to drive at a temperature, that probably no motor would survive .
___________________________

Further findings (not really related to magic data) about water temperature:
- It's not affecting the water temperature, if a car is driving in an other car's slipstream or not. In real life, it would have a high impact on the water temperature, when a car is driving closely behind another car. But in GP4, the temperature (sadly) is unaffected.
- Next question was, whether a high water temperature would affect the engine power in any way. That would be very realistic, as we know that a high temperature is decreasing the engine power clearly. But here - sadly once again - there is no influence on the top speed, as well.
- In my opinion, the two findings before really raise the question:
Why the hell did Geoff Crammond implement the water temperature at all? Obviously there is no function of it, except it will give you an engine failure after making a few donuts.

Quote
klausfeldmann
- As written in the descition text by TomMK, the top speed is quite highly influenced. Just to get a feeling for it, I had the following top speeds at these air temperatures (°C):
0°: 327 km/h
35°: 341 km/h
80°: 355 km/h

The rationale for this is that hot air is less dense than cold air - so there is less air resistance/drag in hotter temperatures.

Quote
klausfeldmann
- A side effect of the air temperature is that it also affects the grip level. It's maybe a bit crazy, but the hotter the air is, the less grip you have.

So maybe there is some kind of track temperature simulation hidden in there as well.


My unfinished tracks: [www.grandprixgames.org]
Send bug reports and track editing questions to f1virtualblog@gmail.com

80 °C is 353 K, which is 29% warmer than 0 °C, so according to the ideal-gas law the air density should be 29% less.
As the engine power required to overcome air resistance increases with the cube of speed, top speed increases with the cube root of the reduction in air density, which is about 9%. This quite accurately matches the observations (at 80 °C the top speed is indeed 9% higher).

At the same time, the reduction in air density also reduces downforce and therefore cornering speeds. This effect will be most noticeable in high-speed corners. In reality, engine power (and cooling) is negatively affected by the reduction in air density, so cars tend to go faster when it's cooler, but this aspect is not modeled in the game (this is where the power factors are for). Engine cooling is only affected by the change speed in the engine temperature menu in GPxPatch (in the GPxLap tab). It's better not to change this parameter, as it can easily cause the engines to overheat.

Wow, very accurate physical statements. Thank you for these background information!

Hey there. What values determine consistency of the laptimes shown by drivers? Obv tyre degradation and amount of fuel are affecting the laptimes, as well as driving errors, but what overall determines whether the driver (all of them, all the AI/Comp Controlled cars) matches the identical time every time or does the different each lap with the tyre degradation, fuel consumption and driving errors set to 0?

___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]

In the magic data, there are these two values:

; desc63= CC random performance range min
; desc64= CC random performance range max

But, currently, I don't know whether this random value is determined just once at the beginning of a session or every time newly lap by lap. There was any user, who investigated it and wrote the result anywhere into the 17 pages of this thread. Maybe someone still remembers it.

Hello everyone, I decided to up this topic which is now my source of inspiration.
Long story short: I decided to make my own mod for 1998 season, I've found some shortcomings in performance files, I made my own. Now I've found some shortcomings in MagicData and found this topic.

Since there's no trackpack for 1998, I'm using that of 1997 (I only have to get rid of Jerez, the rest is the same)

Trying to catch realistic fuel consumption, I've googled a value of 77l/100km for McLaren MP4-14 in Barcelona 1999 (now at least I have a concrete reference value).
This means 58.135kg/100km or 178.9kg/race or 533061units/race or 8201units/lap. Which is pretty close to 8260 in the magic data for Barcelona1997.

The problem is: earlier I've found a value of 6933 corresponding to a fuel consumption (and with default fuel = 8260, it means drivers consume about 15% less and end up with 7-8 laps of extra fuel). However, it's not the most critical case. In Hockenheim cars ran out of fuel (that's how I began to investigate where the problem was).

Now the question is:
What can have decreased fuel consumption compared to the original barcelona2001?
It's not Fuel Consumption AI, it is increased in the mod: 16350 vs 15741 in the genuine barcelona2001.
Can it be downforce (drag)? But it's 28, high enough.

How can I retrieve the original data from GP4 to compare?
It could help to know what could possibly go wrong.

Hello everyone,
I'm still trying to change the track values, but I'm a little lacking in knowledge to achieve what I want.
On each track, there's a magic file.
I've found almost all the answers, except for a few.
What are SPLIT1 and SPLIT2 next to the lap count?
I'd like to increase the driver errors a little. What values ​​should I enter in AI Errors (I have 47)?
On some tracks, the lap count remains stuck at the original value; I can't change it.
If you have any knowledge of other magic file values, I'm interested.
I've seen everywhere on the site that you can also modify data via CSM/GPxTRACK. Can you tell me more?

Finally, last question:
What are the Max track length (8km) and Max race lap and Max race laps (99km) used for in GPXTrack? I get a little warning message when I want to modify them.

PS, I still haven't found any solutions for Trackpac NASCAR; most tracks have 0 laps of racing.

Thank you for your feedback and have a nice day.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2025 11:35AM by poissecaille.

poissecaille Schreef:
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Hi, the values Split1 and Split2 are pretty simple. It's where Intermediate1 and Intermediate2 times in qualifying and race are taken.
This value is given in sectors. All sectors in GP4 are equal 16feet or 4.8768m. So if Split1=300, Split2=740, then they are situated at 1463 and 3609m from the start/finish line.

AI errors is unclear to me. I reduced default values to 4 and... AI drivers began to make less errors (which sound logical).
The thing is: I tested it only in qualifyings where AI drivers make 88 (4x22) laps in total, this value is too low to fit a law. Moreover, when you filter out different rear wing set-ups of AI cars, you have 40-56 laps on the same set-up. So, anyway I need to test it in races, but it's not my priority for the moment.

I edit tracks through TSM which I launch from CSM, there you can see the main parameters which track files use.

>> What are the Max track length (8km) and Max race lap and Max race laps (99km) used for in GPXTrack
There are limits on that related to maximum number of sectors. If I'm not mistaken, it's far above 8km in the latest versions of GPxPatch. I personally never used it since I run only normal F1 circuits, the longest is Spa.
Max race laps can be above 99. Again, some time ago I increased it to 126 via GP4Tweaker. With 127 when you cross the finish line and begin 128th lap, it resets to 0. But again: I read somewhere in release notes that even this limit was increased. I haven't tried it because last years I play on the levels other than rookie and every mistake can ruin my race. And it's much more pity to lose your race after 100 laps than after 50.

Thanks for your help.
I hope others will contribute their magic data knowledge to the GP4 community.

Hello,

Do you know if there's a way to address:
1) tire wear
2) making single-seaters indestructible so they can return to the track?
Thanks

tyre wear is one of MD values, check the thread to get the exact value, cars can be set to be not destructable with the GP4Tweaker tool

___________________________________________
I'm wheels, I am moving wheels I'm a 1952 Studebaker coupe...
My previous acc (Soutsen) has been banned from use cos recently some annoying spammer used the same @mail domain as I did much earlier.

Thank you very much.
I'm having trouble opening the GP4Tweaker.ini program, even as an administrator.
Other things: on some circuits, even if I change the number of race laps to 99, it remains at the initial setting.
If anyone has a solution, please.
Thanks.

I think there are 2 different GP4Tweaker thingies. One installs as a regular program on your PC with it's own shortcut icon and so on. It can be found here and I don't have problems opening it on Win 10.
[www.grandprixgames.org]
Another one also is GP4Tweaker and was distributed as just folder to be placed into GP4 directory. You can open GP4Tweaker.ini along to other .ini files if you select opening it with just notepad to edit whatever you want there.
[www.grandprixgames.org]

Anyway, I was talking about the 1st one which is actual program and setting looks like this, you can either chose to get more or less overall damage.

Also afaik there is the more indepth system, but it involves CSM program to be used as well (this is a part of ZAZTools pack which is must have to play with mods or certain trackpacks or even standalone modded tracks). Check these threads if you want your damage settings to be complicated:

[www.grandprixgames.org]
[www.grandprixgames.org]

If you want it just to be set to zero, use the less vulnerable option as can be seen from the screeshot.

___________________________________________
I'm wheels, I am moving wheels I'm a 1952 Studebaker coupe...
My previous acc (Soutsen) has been banned from use cos recently some annoying spammer used the same @mail domain as I did much earlier.

hasbeenbannedfromuse écrivait:
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> I think there are 2 different GP4Tweaker thingies.
> One installs as a regular program on your PC with
> it's own shortcut icon and so on. It can be found
> here and I don't have problems opening it on Win 1
> 0.
> [www.grandprixgames.org]
> ,1100305
> Another one also is GP4Tweaker and was distributed
> as just folder to be placed into GP4 directory. Yo
> u can open GP4Tweaker.ini along to other .ini file
> s if you select opening it with just notepad to ed
> it whatever you want there.
> [www.grandprixgames.org],
> 1100891#msg-1100891
>
> Anyway, I was talking about the 1st one which is a
> ctual program and setting looks like this, you can
> either chose to get more or less overall damage.
> [i.postimg.cc]
> Also afaik there is the more indepth system, but i
> t involves CSM program to be used as well (this is
> a part of ZAZTools pack which is must have to play
> with mods or certain trackpacks or even standalone
> modded tracks). Check these threads if you want yo
> ur damage settings to be complicated:
>
> [www.grandprixgames.org],
> page=1
> [www.grandprixgames.org],
> 1044788
>
> If you want it just to be set to zero, use the le
> ss vulnerable option as can be seen from the scree
> shot.

Thank you very much for your help.

One curious question. I know not many people into solely AI racing, but I wonder if my idea can be implemented at all. Is there maybe any MD value that determines CC car aggresiveness towards player car? Just thought that since we can totally make one car to look separately from others, we could maybe make field of 20 AI cars with 1 player controlled satefy car that they cant overtake (if there is MD value for that) and 1 car to not start at all with numcars.ini . This is silly of course since AI drivers would still overtake each other even if they cant overtake player controlled car, but still. Anyways I'm infinetely sad that GPxPatch got abandoned after SDI decieded to go for brake agressiveness which turned out to be not as useful as he thought maybe which lead him to go away from further investments into this tool. Would be so much better if he'd go for tyre management MD value to be separate for each driver or ability to fully control pit-strategies.

Also forums feels a bit dead with me posting a lot since I got back to playing the game after staying away from it for 3 years and I've noticed other guys make only 1-2 posts per day which is sad

___________________________________________
I'm wheels, I am moving wheels I'm a 1952 Studebaker coupe...
My previous acc (Soutsen) has been banned from use cos recently some annoying spammer used the same @mail domain as I did much earlier.

And just in case, I've downloaded all Magic Data files from TomMK that I could find before GP4Central closed (if anyone needed them):
[www.mediafire.com]

___________________________________________
I'm wheels, I am moving wheels I'm a 1952 Studebaker coupe...
My previous acc (Soutsen) has been banned from use cos recently some annoying spammer used the same @mail domain as I did much earlier.

I resumed playing GP4 two years ago. Before that I mainly played on the rookie level.

Since I've been playing on higher levels, I've noticed one thing: I cannot be close to CC cars on some circuit sections.
A notorious example can be Interlagos main straight.

First, I thought that I couldn't properly exit Juncao (the last corner). But in this case I would haven been slower only on the accelerations. But I am slower on the end of the straight. Driving McLaren MP4-13 I need to defend my position from Mecachrome-powered Williams and Benetton (-25bhp).
Then I thought that it could be a mod-related issue. Which wasn't the case, I just launched the genuine GP4 with "Old behaviour" in performance. And still, driving for David Coulthard (2001), I was slower at the end of the straight than Jordans (on pro and ace).
Of course, I checked also relative AI engine power for Brazil: it's 484 for pro and ace. I don't know if 500 or 512 corresponds to the normal (100%) behaviour, but anyway CC cars are slower than this.

And the same problem in many cases:
Courbe Grande in Magny-Cours, in the genuine GP4 driving for Michael Schumacher, I can barely follow Saubers and BARs. I only catch them at the end of the straight.
Maggots-Beckets in Silverstone, the straight after 1st corner in Hockenheim and so on.

But then I decided to verify car setup. Since I try to race "fairly", using default setup as for CC cars (putting it to automatic). And the MD for all the genuine 17 tracks contain the same values for Player ans CC cars (wings, gear ratios and brake ratio). Normally I should be even slow or even fast relative to CC cars everywhere.

But when I looked in the logs (GPxPatch, GPxLap tab), I didn't find the same values for Player and CC cars.

Example 1. Magny-Cours, wet qualifying.
Entry,P,3,"Michael Schumacher","Ferrari","Ferrari",0,18,18,54.375,23,30,37,43,49,54
Entry,C,18,"Rubens Barrichello","Stewart","Ford",1,17,17,54.375,23,30,36,42,48,54
I have higher front and rear wing (other CC cars having 16-18 for rear), shifted gear ratios for gears 3-5. And we all have very low brake ratio (54.375 instead of 57.38)

Example 2. Interlagos, quickrace
Entry,P,8,"Mika Hakkinen","McLaren","Mercedes",1,15,15,57.500,25,32,39,45,51,56
Entry,C,22,"Shinji Nakano","Minardi","Ford",1,16,15,57.500,28,34,39,45,51,57
Here wing values correspond to their values in the original game, but brake ratio doesn't (57.5 instead of 57.63). And the lowest gears for the player car are seriously shifted down (25-32 instead of 28-34), also the last ratio is only 56 instead of 57. This explains partially why I'm so slow on the straight.

The same behaviour was observed on many other circuits.
Has anyone else encountered this problem? What could be the root cause? And how to have the same setup as CC cars (except setting it up manually)?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2025 11:27PM by uncle_dominique.

Setting wings manually is probably the only way to go. I think I've stumbled upon to some setup issue people had not so long when I was googling random magic-data, physics and perfomance files related stuff. Try googling something like this

___________________________________________
I'm wheels, I am moving wheels I'm a 1952 Studebaker coupe...
My previous acc (Soutsen) has been banned from use cos recently some annoying spammer used the same @mail domain as I did much earlier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2025 01:24AM by hasbeenbannedfromuse.