An idea to improve overtaking

I know, I know, the overtaking discussion has got boring, but this is a genuinely good idea. Believe me.

In the Autosport magazine, the editor had an idea to reverse the grids, so the slower drivers would start at the front, with the quicker drivers at the front, so they had to overtake more.

The main problem with this is that then drivers will go purposely slow , as to get at the front of grid.

But me and my dad were talking about this, and we came up with an idea. Instead of reversing the grids at every race, the grid could be reversed at, say, half the races. After qualifying has taken place and the grid has been confirmed, a FIA delegate, watched by witnesses, presses a button on a computer, to see if the grid will be reversed at that race or not.

This weay, the drivers would not qualify purposely slow, and we would (hopefully) see an increase in overtaking.

What do you guys think?

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It would improve overtaking and the spectacle, but it would make a mockery of the sporting side of it.

F1, while we get lost in the fact that we feel it should be entertainment first and business 2nd, is still a sport.

Reversing a grid is fine for touring cars, but this is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing. We've had boring races throughout history, it just so happens we've reached a peak. It doesn't take a massive overhaul of the ethics of the system.

And don't you dare call Bernie. He'd love an idea like this and has probably already got it in the pipeline.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2009 04:41PM by gav.

Are they banning the double diffusers for next year or not? Given that they have been proven to reduce stability for the following car you would think that they would be banned but I've not heard anything about it...

You want overtaking? Go back to the 2004/2005 Regs with tyre changes and refuelling. And Bam! There's your overtaking. The Suzuka classic race on the BBC easily showed it

Even in touring cars reversing the grid sucks. Everyone is trying to do the worst he can in the first race in order to start in front for the second one. I hope that Bernie doesn't come out with this idea.

Cheers

Monza972 Wrote:
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> You want overtaking? Go back to the 2004/2005 Regs
> with tyre changes and refuelling. And Bam! There's
> your overtaking. The Suzuka classic race on the
> BBC easily showed it

The only thing which helped that era was the tyre war. Take that away and you'd have the same problems as 2009.

Get rid of wings. Simple. Just find a way of keeping straightline speeds down (without giving them 1.4ltr engines). All the problems would instantly go away.

We need more drivers like kobayashi. Look at the guy
in his 2nd race he passed the WDC!!! in Abu Dhabi.

Monza972 schreef:
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> You want overtaking? Go back to the 2004/2005 Regs
> with tyre changes and refuelling. And Bam! There's
> your overtaking. The Suzuka classic race on the
> BBC easily showed it


That one was only spectacular because it had rained the whole weekend, so there wasn't a clean line. The grip was the same everywhere, so you could overtake more easily. Add that Alonso, Raikkonen and Schumacher had to start at the back and there is your overtaking. And the other 35 odd races that were driven in 04 and 05, were they as spectacular? No. One swallow doesn't make a summer.

More overtaking will only be reached by a more spread out field and good drivers who make mistakes in qualifying so they have to overtake the slower cars. The field is so close now that you can't simply overtake a car anymore. Only with a mistake of the driver in front you can overtake.

gav Wrote:
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> Get rid of wings. Simple. Just find a way of
> keeping straightline speeds down (without giving
> them 1.4ltr engines). All the problems would
> instantly go away.

Oh, and give them brakes made of wood, or some other crap material while will make them apply the anchors further away from the corner than 80m.

I was about to post what Gav has just said. When the biggest braking zone is 80m, how can you expect them to pass?

Make them spec steel brakes.

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Limit the incidence angle of the wings and open up underbody regs allowing ground-effects as in GP2 and add standard brakes all round...

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2009 08:14PM by chet.

msater schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> […]
>
> But me and my dad were talking about this, and we
> came up with an idea. Instead of reversing the
> grids at every race, the grid could be reversed
> at, say, half the races. After qualifying has
> taken place and the grid has been confirmed, a FIA
> delegate, watched by witnesses, presses a button
> on a computer, to see if the grid will be reversed
> at that race or not.
>
> […]

Get rid of the computer and make an official public "flip the coin", on head the grid is reversed, on number it's not. :D

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We need cars like we had 1993 or 1997, but with safety standards from today. Only the important wings (front, rear) and maybe a bargeboard, not more. Also the sidepods should be more sqaure and not roundly.

The rest like the wings at the cockpit side and the thousand small wings on the frontwing should be banned.

Vandusk Wrote:
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> We need cars like we had 1993 or 1997, but with
> safety standards from today. Only the important
> wings (front, rear) and maybe a bargeboard, not
> more. Also the sidepods should be more sqaure and
> not roundly.
>
> The rest like the wings at the cockpit side and
> the thousand small wings on the frontwing should
> be banned.


LOL mate,you gave me an inspiration for gp4

EDIT:which safety standards do you mean?(i know cockpit walls at car sides,hans,deleted front wing's lateral extension)

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My GPGSL Career



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2009 10:03PM by senna9194.

Get rid of the uber brakes. Go back to old school steel brakes and it's problem solved. Even with the downforce, a longer braking zone would open up plenty more places to pass.

Darn, beaten by Dave yet again on this.

And Dahie is right on the coin flip. The Speed World Challenge series does the same (Literally a coin flip, in pitlane) for inversion of the top 3 qualifiers. While I do think a bigger inversion would work better for F1 (Say, top 8), same thing.


The Flanker is gone.

Agreed with Gav, Dave and Smorr. Steel brakes FTW. As well as creating more overtaking opportunities, they'd put more emphasis on driver skill.

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EC83 Wrote:
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> Agreed with Gav, Dave and Smorr. Steel brakes FTW.
> As well as creating more overtaking opportunities,
> they'd put more emphasis on driver skill.


Yes Martin Brundle mentioned this idea a few years ago at least....

Steel brakes, even less wings and stuff, more mechanical grip, more power

gin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Agreed with Gav, Dave and Smorr. Steel brakes
> FTW.
> > As well as creating more overtaking
> opportunities,
> > they'd put more emphasis on driver skill.
>
>
> Yes Martin Brundle mentioned this idea a few years
> ago at least....

Indeed.

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Im not so sure steel-brakes is the answer. I suggest a standard system but steel brakes require much more work to manage temperatures and do not last as long as carbon-brakes which could get costly.

These days id say the cost isnt great on carbon brakes (especially if made standard) and so to move to what would be massivley heavy (no refuelling) steel brakes could be a major step-back IMO. When people are moaning about costs would it work out as cheap to to run carbon brakes than steel, having not to spend on replacing them as often.


***Small spoiler alert!***

Sure steel brakes would require more work from the driver in that he, or she would have to probably preserve them better (talking about next year) and they are less consistant, but today showed with Webber, and at Singapore that drivers still suffer will brake durability and will make mistakes.

IMO reckon standard brake systems all round would be a good answer but not sure about steel. Any idea's on how much the braking system weighs on an F1 car? CC compared to Steel?

The overtaking debate is an endless one...

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2009 11:05AM by chet.