The Official Bahrain Grand Prix 2009 Thread (*spoilers*)
Posted by The Lopper
gav Wrote:
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> Karan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Roll on Barcelona!
>
> I believe that is the first time anyone has used
> those words in that particularly order!
Haha! True enough gav. I'm just looking forward to seeing if/how the order shakes up once these teams introduce new upgrades. With the lack of testing this year, it adds another level of unknown to this season. Obviously I'm hoping Ferrari has something in the bag, to restore them back to respectability.
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> Karan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Roll on Barcelona!
>
> I believe that is the first time anyone has used
> those words in that particularly order!
Haha! True enough gav. I'm just looking forward to seeing if/how the order shakes up once these teams introduce new upgrades. With the lack of testing this year, it adds another level of unknown to this season. Obviously I'm hoping Ferrari has something in the bag, to restore them back to respectability.
Wow, this must be the shortest Grand Prix thread in years. 
________________________________________
Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...
THE SIG
Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.
________________________________________
Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...
THE SIG
Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.
I know, for some Grands Prix last year there were 500+ posts 
Well, that run-of-the-mill race finally happened then :P
It was actually good to see one race play out without being interrupted by safety cars, and this was a high-speed chess-game par excellence. It was really interesting to see the strategies of the frontrunners pan out, and watch the race change and develop. Great also, and slightly amusing, to watch the race going more and more JB's way with first Jarno and then Seb V stacking his rivals up.
Great drive from Jenson, great to see him finally win on a chequered flag finish again! Fantastic strategy, truly deserved the success, and Brawn fully deserve their strong Championship lead.
Another strong drive from Sebastien V, had consistent pace throughout.
Great start from Toyota, they just need to improve their race pace.
Lewis not bad. Did the best he could with what he had.
Some great driving from Rubens, his feisty second stint was a total pleasure to watch. Loved his disgust at Piquet - understandable!
Kimi deserves a quick mention too I think. Solid drive, made the best of a bad job and saved Ferrari from a four-race epic failure streak.
salvasirignano Wrote:
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> I know, for some Grands Prix last year there were
> 500+ posts
Well, we were offline for a good couple of days when normally we would've been building up to the race, and probably as a result the forums have been quieter than usual over race weekend too. Nevermind tho, we can probably stretch this thread to a good few more pages with in-depth analysis, speculation about what the result means for the championship, etc There's two weeks till Barcelona after all!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2009 03:45AM by EC83.
It was actually good to see one race play out without being interrupted by safety cars, and this was a high-speed chess-game par excellence. It was really interesting to see the strategies of the frontrunners pan out, and watch the race change and develop. Great also, and slightly amusing, to watch the race going more and more JB's way with first Jarno and then Seb V stacking his rivals up.
Great drive from Jenson, great to see him finally win on a chequered flag finish again! Fantastic strategy, truly deserved the success, and Brawn fully deserve their strong Championship lead.
Another strong drive from Sebastien V, had consistent pace throughout.
Great start from Toyota, they just need to improve their race pace.
Lewis not bad. Did the best he could with what he had.
Some great driving from Rubens, his feisty second stint was a total pleasure to watch. Loved his disgust at Piquet - understandable!
Kimi deserves a quick mention too I think. Solid drive, made the best of a bad job and saved Ferrari from a four-race epic failure streak.
salvasirignano Wrote:
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> I know, for some Grands Prix last year there were
> 500+ posts
Well, we were offline for a good couple of days when normally we would've been building up to the race, and probably as a result the forums have been quieter than usual over race weekend too. Nevermind tho, we can probably stretch this thread to a good few more pages with in-depth analysis, speculation about what the result means for the championship, etc
There's two weeks till Barcelona after all!Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2009 03:45AM by EC83.
i think jenson today proved that he is a worthy gp winner, even if having a solid car under him makes much of the difference, today he won it fair and square.
rubens hasn't matched him much, and for sure, if button is world champion this year, i bloody hope people give him the credit for it and not blame it on the car alone - if it was all car, brawn would be 1-2 all the time. They're not, and Rubens needs to up his game.
ms won pretty much 7 titles, each in a car that was the best of the rest. so to say button doesnt deserve a championship it would only be fair to perish ms' titles - all of them.
I know nobody has mentioned the worthiness much, but I bet you thats what they will say - the same argument that he didn't deserve hungary '06.
Weird thought though if Button did win it, really weird!
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
rubens hasn't matched him much, and for sure, if button is world champion this year, i bloody hope people give him the credit for it and not blame it on the car alone - if it was all car, brawn would be 1-2 all the time. They're not, and Rubens needs to up his game.
ms won pretty much 7 titles, each in a car that was the best of the rest. so to say button doesnt deserve a championship it would only be fair to perish ms' titles - all of them.
I know nobody has mentioned the worthiness much, but I bet you thats what they will say - the same argument that he didn't deserve hungary '06.
Weird thought though if Button did win it, really weird!
EC83 Wrote:
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> Well, that run-of-the-mill race finally happened
> then :P
If that's our bog-stardard run-of-the-mill race in 2009, then I'll be delighted, as it was still far better than most races in the past 5 seasons.
It was a bit processional at times, but I think the first 3 laps had more overtakes than all of Interlagos. At one point there were about 4 rows of cars side-by-side (and I don't mean on the grid).
If that was an average to poor race, then 2009 is spoiling us massively. :D
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> Well, that run-of-the-mill race finally happened
> then :P
If that's our bog-stardard run-of-the-mill race in 2009, then I'll be delighted, as it was still far better than most races in the past 5 seasons.
It was a bit processional at times, but I think the first 3 laps had more overtakes than all of Interlagos. At one point there were about 4 rows of cars side-by-side (and I don't mean on the grid
).If that was an average to poor race, then 2009 is spoiling us massively. :D
Just wondering, how come Vettel is now a Red Bull driver? Didnt BMW have him under contract or something? Because if BMW get their car sorted out, that would be a mega partnership, Kubica and Vettel.
Ok thanks, I thought it was the other way round.
The thing with Webber is even if he gets beaten by Vettel this year, it will only confirm what we thought about him in the first place, that he is a good but not top line driver. I dont think anyone really expects him to beat Vettel.
The thing with Webber is even if he gets beaten by Vettel this year, it will only confirm what we thought about him in the first place, that he is a good but not top line driver. I dont think anyone really expects him to beat Vettel.
vesuvius Wrote:
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> SexySam182 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ok thanks, I thought it was the other way
> round.
> >
> > The thing with Webber is even if he gets beaten
> by
> > Vettel this year, it will only confirm what we
> > thought about him in the first place, that he is
> a
> > good but not top line driver. I dont think
> anyone
> > really expects him to beat Vettel.
>
>
> Actually Webber has proved that he is very good
> and able to be there with Vettel. At Bahrain
> Webber's weekend was spoiled by bad qualifying so
> his true speed wasn't seen.
yes, i think webber has done a lot better than many people expected so far.
In Melbourne we can't tell because he was taken out on lap 1. In Sepang he did better than Vettel, especially on the wets, and was on for a definite 2nd or 1st in the race if the rain had come one lap earlier (he pitted twice in two laps). In China he pushed Vettel hard, and would have been closer if not for two small mistakes. In Bahrain, as vesa said, we can't really compare.
I think Monaco could be Webber's hopefully, based on strong previous performances there (and junior formula) and the new diffuser. i think i will put some money on him actually if i can get some decent odds.
X (@ed24f1)
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> SexySam182 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ok thanks, I thought it was the other way
> round.
> >
> > The thing with Webber is even if he gets beaten
> by
> > Vettel this year, it will only confirm what we
> > thought about him in the first place, that he is
> a
> > good but not top line driver. I dont think
> anyone
> > really expects him to beat Vettel.
>
>
> Actually Webber has proved that he is very good
> and able to be there with Vettel. At Bahrain
> Webber's weekend was spoiled by bad qualifying so
> his true speed wasn't seen.
yes, i think webber has done a lot better than many people expected so far.
In Melbourne we can't tell because he was taken out on lap 1. In Sepang he did better than Vettel, especially on the wets, and was on for a definite 2nd or 1st in the race if the rain had come one lap earlier (he pitted twice in two laps). In China he pushed Vettel hard, and would have been closer if not for two small mistakes. In Bahrain, as vesa said, we can't really compare.
I think Monaco could be Webber's hopefully, based on strong previous performances there (and junior formula) and the new diffuser. i think i will put some money on him actually if i can get some decent odds.
X (@ed24f1)
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> In China he pushed Vettel hard, and would have
> been closer if not for two small mistakes.
>
> I'll contest that actually. He didn't push Vettel
> hard. Vettel pulled a comfortable gap and then
> when the pit stops came Vettel dropped the hammer
> and pulled 6 seconds over Mark, which allowed him
> to put a car between them. The gap extended to 15
> seconds before they eased off at the end. Mark
> also had 2 offs to Vettels none. He wasn't close,
> nevermind pushing Vettel.
Pulling a comfortable gap wasn't hard in those conditions at the start, you were always going to be much faster in clean air for a few laps. After that, Webber began to catch him, before he lost a couple of seconds at Turn 1. For the same reason as before, as soon as Mark was in traffic, it would be easy for Vettel to gain 6 seconds or more in the pitstop phase. The team also did not help his cause, bringing Webber in before Vettel, despite his supposed extra fuel (however that could have been wrong or maybe it didn't account for Mark's heavier body weight)
Webber lost 7 seconds in the one lap when he lost the position and had to pass Button again, which extended the gap. That was his fault, and i am not saying mark drove better than seb, but he still pushed him hard despite these setbacks. By this time, it was too late to catch up at all.
Vettel even acknowledged, admittedly according to Webber himself, that at the team debrief, he was pushed hard by Mark and frustrated Mark kept putting out good laps.
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> As for Bahrain - why didn't he do a banker lap?
> Well he did - it put him 19th. In Q1 cars like the
> Red Bulls should be comfortably through. You
> shouldn't be fighting for positions at the end.
his first lap was on the hard tyres, but he probably could have done it better. yes, he should have been comfortably through, but his traffic was particularly bad as it ruined his first lap, and any chance of a second lap. lots of drivers every round do the same thing he did, and get through.
X (@ed24f1)
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> In China he pushed Vettel hard, and would have
> been closer if not for two small mistakes.
>
> I'll contest that actually. He didn't push Vettel
> hard. Vettel pulled a comfortable gap and then
> when the pit stops came Vettel dropped the hammer
> and pulled 6 seconds over Mark, which allowed him
> to put a car between them. The gap extended to 15
> seconds before they eased off at the end. Mark
> also had 2 offs to Vettels none. He wasn't close,
> nevermind pushing Vettel.
Pulling a comfortable gap wasn't hard in those conditions at the start, you were always going to be much faster in clean air for a few laps. After that, Webber began to catch him, before he lost a couple of seconds at Turn 1. For the same reason as before, as soon as Mark was in traffic, it would be easy for Vettel to gain 6 seconds or more in the pitstop phase. The team also did not help his cause, bringing Webber in before Vettel, despite his supposed extra fuel (however that could have been wrong or maybe it didn't account for Mark's heavier body weight)
Webber lost 7 seconds in the one lap when he lost the position and had to pass Button again, which extended the gap. That was his fault, and i am not saying mark drove better than seb, but he still pushed him hard despite these setbacks. By this time, it was too late to catch up at all.
Vettel even acknowledged, admittedly according to Webber himself, that at the team debrief, he was pushed hard by Mark and frustrated Mark kept putting out good laps.
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> As for Bahrain - why didn't he do a banker lap?
> Well he did - it put him 19th. In Q1 cars like the
> Red Bulls should be comfortably through. You
> shouldn't be fighting for positions at the end.
his first lap was on the hard tyres, but he probably could have done it better. yes, he should have been comfortably through, but his traffic was particularly bad as it ruined his first lap, and any chance of a second lap. lots of drivers every round do the same thing he did, and get through.
X (@ed24f1)
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> The 6 seconds were gained before the stops. That 6
> second gap is why Webber had traffic that Vettel
> didn't. Vettel made a better job of it before the
> stops which left Webber with cars to navigate
> which Vettel didn't.
as i already said, this gap was caused almost wholly by the conditions. there were gaps like that throughout the whole field. it was almost impossible to follow other cars, especially at the start as the drivers got accustomed to the conditions. this is why the two RBs could come out and only lose a couple of positions. the gap was only 3.5 seconds iirc, but then webber made a mistake at turn 1 a few laps before his pitstop, which i believve is where the 6 second figure comes from.
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Every time Webber done a fast
> lap, Vettel answered it immediately. It was cat
> and mouse, but the mouse was was able to give a
> firm answer to everything the car threw at it.
surely that is pushing him hard then? requiring Vettel to constantly answer his laptimes seems to fit that criteria i would think
Once again, i am not saying Webber drove better or equal to Vettel, just that he was a reasonably close match and pushed him hard.
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> If he had traffic on both laps then he should be
> blaming the team for releasing him at those times.
> Marks banker lap was horrific. Only better than
> Sebastian Bourdais, who has been out at sea the
> entire year.
yes, i agree that his team is partly to blame. however, you can only do so much to predict drivers going slow or doing unpredictable movements like that.
X (@ed24f1)
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> The 6 seconds were gained before the stops. That 6
> second gap is why Webber had traffic that Vettel
> didn't. Vettel made a better job of it before the
> stops which left Webber with cars to navigate
> which Vettel didn't.
as i already said, this gap was caused almost wholly by the conditions. there were gaps like that throughout the whole field. it was almost impossible to follow other cars, especially at the start as the drivers got accustomed to the conditions. this is why the two RBs could come out and only lose a couple of positions. the gap was only 3.5 seconds iirc, but then webber made a mistake at turn 1 a few laps before his pitstop, which i believve is where the 6 second figure comes from.
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Every time Webber done a fast
> lap, Vettel answered it immediately. It was cat
> and mouse, but the mouse was was able to give a
> firm answer to everything the car threw at it.
surely that is pushing him hard then? requiring Vettel to constantly answer his laptimes seems to fit that criteria i would think
Once again, i am not saying Webber drove better or equal to Vettel, just that he was a reasonably close match and pushed him hard.
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> If he had traffic on both laps then he should be
> blaming the team for releasing him at those times.
> Marks banker lap was horrific. Only better than
> Sebastian Bourdais, who has been out at sea the
> entire year.
yes, i agree that his team is partly to blame. however, you can only do so much to predict drivers going slow or doing unpredictable movements like that.
X (@ed24f1)
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