Brawn GP (topic rename)

Whats annoying is that the FIA can not say whether it is legal or not. Well they have not! We have had charlies opinion but that doenst mean anything.

The governing body of the sport is leaving it to the opinion of a few stewards at the track.

Before now, this should have been cleared by the FIA, no one else. The FIA should have said illegal or legal and give all teams concerned enough time to allow for the banning if they declared illegal.

Once again something which just makes F1 look even more of a joke, or is that the FIA?

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

toyota williams and brawn gp are all suspected of having illegal diffusers
they seem to be higher than the 175mm limit in places

If the little section at the top is what makes it too high, then why isn't the section at the bottom doing the same thing? And if the height regulation only applies to the outer 30% of the diffuser (similar to the front wings in 2001), then why should the diffusers with the extra height be illegal, if it doesn't apply there?

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I think though those teams in question have basically said, "our diffuser section stops at or before the 175mm mark and the rest is simply our crash structure". Whether or not that part helps with the diffusers performance is another matter. The way it seems the these teams have read it is that they class the red section their diffuser working area. Well i think thats it. I am not sure what people are on about concerning the continuous line stuff.



edit - The top section on the Brawn looks to simply be for strength, or at least they can say that.

Thing is with the rules the teams can argue that the parts of diffuser which are illegal are not actually part of the diffuser. The FIA is to blame for this, why should Williams, TF and Brawn suffer for their mistake. The rule which banned winglets was very cleverly worded meaning the sidepods had to remain clean and feature no openings. (something about a min radius rule...) Anyway, the FIA left the rules for interpretation, can you blame these teams for taking full addvantage? btw - I believe though Ross is head of the technical team for FOTA they did not write the regulations, only proposed things as far as I know.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 08:42PM by chet.

No bodywork which is visible from beneath the car and which lies between the rear wheel centre line and a point 350mm rearward of it may be more than 175mm above the reference plane.

The regulations at no point state "diffuser", they state "bodywork". Crach Structure is not bodywork - it is defined differently. Therefore Brawn/Williams/Toyota are just brilliant in how they read the rules.

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I do not see how the FIA or stewards can claim these as illegal. Then theres the claim of them being 'against the spirit of the sport', complete bs! We all know that in recent years some cars have been harder to follow than others, thats just clever design again.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

If they are against the spirit of the regulations, then they should just write the regulation better. Currently they aren't illegal. The rules would have to be changed for them to be illegal.

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Then theres the claim of them being 'against the spirit of the sport'

There's more justification for "most wins = champion" is against the spirit of the sport really. As you've said FIA have pawned this off to the stewards in Australia...They know they've been caught out. The teams can't be fined for this, but one supposes FIA can reword their rules. Again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 09:17PM by The Lopper.

If the stewards mark the cars as illegal, I will be majorly f**ked off with Ferrari for potentially ruining a great season opener just because they're peeved they're not the pace setters in testing.

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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

Well Renault, Ferrari and RedBull (Ferrari again? :p).

Thing is what argument do the protesting teams have? All Brawn, Williams and TF will say is that its part of the crash structure, therefore legal. The other teams can claim its bodywork all they want but I see no reason why, and how these diffusers should get banned and if the stewards claim they are illegal I will too be very disapointed.

Could then the other teams protest the results of GrandPrix contested with these diffusers?

Whatever happens, Aus cant come soon enough!!

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Red Bull have said they're definitely going to protest against Brawn (and only Brawn, for the moment, it appears). They say the diffuser is worth half a second a lap. Good luck to them. I don't really see where their grounds for protest is.

Interestingly, Frank Williams is calling Brawn's car "absurdly superior".

I'm amazed the other teams haven't just jumped on the bandwagon rather than protest against these teams. Look at the offending outfits. Brawn, Williams, Toyota. Hardly the big guys to win one over, are they?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 10:45PM by The Lopper.

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> The regulations at no point state "diffuser", they
> state "bodywork". Crach Structure is not bodywork
> - it is defined differently. Therefore
> Brawn/Williams/Toyota are just brilliant in how
> they read the rules.

Exactly. If these teams have managed to gain an advantage through innovative/smart thinking rather than illegality, they should be allowed to keep it. The others should stop moaning about it and put their efforts into trying to catch up instead. It's their bad for not exploiting the opportunity like Toyota, Williams and Brawn have, so tough cookies.


turkey_machine Wrote:
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> If the stewards mark the cars as illegal, I will
> be majorly f**ked off with Ferrari for potentially
> ruining a great season opener just because they're
> peeved they're not the pace setters in testing.

+1. Agreed, totally.
There's added spice as well with Ross Brawn having left them...

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RBR will be pissed off as due to the design of their car they can not use this idea.

I think it will be bad luck if they are found illegal I just think they have read the rules better than the rest, I mean even Ferrari had to change their car as they did not follow the rules.

Shall see what happens but I think they will be ok.

And Ferrari are right ones to talk about breaking rules, fexi floor remember and they won a race with it. Renault as well with their front susspension.

chet Wrote:
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> Thing is what argument do the protesting teams
> have? All Brawn, Williams and TF will say is that
> its part of the crash structure, therefore legal.
> The other teams can claim its bodywork all they
> want but I see no reason why, and how these
> diffusers should get banned and if the stewards
> claim they are illegal I will too be very
> disapointed.

From my interpretation of the rule Dave posted, even if it is classed as bodywork it is still legal because the elements above 175mm cannot be seen from underneath. When the phrase 'not in the spirit of the regulations' gets said you know the teams that haven't taken advantage of the wording don't actually think it's illegal; just that they wish they had thought of it first.

I certainly agree Chet, I will be gravely dissapointed if they are deemed illegal by the stewards.

turkey_machine schreef:
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> If the stewards mark the cars as illegal, I will
> be majorly f**ked off with Ferrari for potentially
> ruining a great season opener just because they're
> peeved they're not the pace setters in testing.

There we go again, blame it all on ferrari, I'm sorry but the other 6 teams are also doubting the diffusers of Brawn, Williams and Toyota.

I'm with chet with this, why is the FIA waiting until after the race of Melbourne? Now we will watch a race, with no idea if the results are the final standings.

The other 6 teams may well be jumping on the bandwagon, but Ferrari are the instigators, and they have more weight with the FIA than any other team / organisation.

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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

Are you just saying this, or do you actually have anything to back it up?

From where I'm standing, Ferrari have been the least vocal of all the teams about these supposed grey areas.

Don't agree that Ferrari are the instigators.

However i do agree its rdiculous. Hopw long have they had to sort this? They have had since Toyota and Williams first showed up the different diffuser. Reading the techy side of the Brawns diffuser is amazingly clever, and for me they wouldn't put it on the car if they thought it was illegal.

Its inside the rules and as others have said i just see the other teams miffed that they didn't think about it first

gav schrieb:
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> From where I'm standing, Ferrari have been the
> least vocal of all the teams about these supposed
> grey areas.

+1

imo it was red bull that complained most

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

Ferrari are the instigators

[Citation needed]

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