Monaco GP Thread **SPOILERS**

Iloved the bahrain part it shows kimi's facial expression when he got the trophy nd turns the man into ice!more of that!

2 Hot 2 Handle.

MS-


KR -



"You must always pick the worst car and the worst team on the grid, to be the best."
—Fangio

wtf!

2 Hot 2 Handle.

MS-


KR -



"You must always pick the worst car and the worst team on the grid, to be the best."
—Fangio

vesuvius Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Force India driver Adrian Sutil has been cautioned
> for overtaking under yellow flags during the
> rain-affected Monaco Grand Prix.
>
> Sutil and the team's chief technical officer Mike
> Gascoyne were summoned to the steward's office
> after the race, and the German was reprimanded for
> passing Rubens Barrichello, Kazuki Nakajima and
> Nelson Piquet on lap 13.
>
> A statement read: "The stewards do warn the driver
> of car no.20 as to his future behaviour in
> relation to appendix H, Chapter 2, Article 4.1.2b
> of the International Sporting Code."

Interestingly, what was the difference between that and what Senna did in the GP2 race at Mirabeau (with no penalty I should add, and with the same race stewards)?

What is interesting is the fact that had he actually finished the race he would probably be given a penalty and that would have dropped him out the points. I do not know for sure but in the passed people have been given a 60 sec penalty. But I think lap 13 is when the track was blocked by nick and alonso? so he just went round them which is fair enough tbh.

Senna passed cars he thought were parked. Sutil passed cars he was racing.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is interesting is the fact that had he
> actually finished the race he would probably be
> given a penalty and that would have dropped him
> out the points. I do not know for sure but in the
> passed people have been given a 60 sec penalty.
> But I think lap 13 is when the track was blocked
> by nick and alonso? so he just went round them
> which is fair enough tbh.
>
> Senna passed cars he thought were parked. Sutil
> passed cars he was racing.


there surely would have been a penalty for Sutil because teams would have complained about it...anyways here is a pic were he is overtaking few drivers under a yellow flag:

[img370.imageshack.us]

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is interesting is the fact that had he
> actually finished the race he would probably be
> given a penalty and that would have dropped him
> out the points. I do not know for sure but in the
> passed people have been given a 60 sec penalty.
> But I think lap 13 is when the track was blocked
> by nick and alonso? so he just went round them
> which is fair enough tbh.
>
> Senna passed cars he thought were parked. Sutil
> passed cars he was racing.

The cars were parked for Sutil too though. It's irrelevant anyway. You just don't overtake under a yellow flag. Ever. Doesn't matter if it's for position or not.

It's not so much whether or not to punish Sutil for this, it's consistency once more. It's hardly a surprise people claim it's different rules from 1 team/driver to the next when this sort of crap goes on.

//edit: For the record, neither Rosberg or Heikki were punished for the same offence, during or post race. Rosberg overtook Heikki before the 1st yellow flag zone (the one on entry to Lowes), then Heikki took him back during the corner as Rosberg was tight to the apex. Heikki just drove around and over him. According to the rules, Heikki should also have been penalised as he didn't give the position back. Two incidents in that race Heikki got away scot free with.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2008 01:04PM by gav.

Alonso should also get a penalty for causing a crash with Nick. Kovy for JB. But if they keep doing this no one will try a move incase they go wrong.

Tbh no one really applied the rules in Monaco.

But yes senna should have got a penalty and sutil should of given the places back. Kovy should have been given a stop and go for passing under yellow and then causing damage to Nico's car. But the yellow flag was also out when Nico passed kovy so maybe nico was giving him the place back? I just dont know and its hard to see.

When that corner gets blocked in monaco it always causes confussion.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interestingly, what was the difference between
> that and what Senna did in the GP2 race at
> Mirabeau (with no penalty I should add, and with
> the same race stewards)?

Oh, come on, he said that the team told him on radio to do so, when he arrived at Mirabeau the chaos was caused by Pantano, I would have done the same! Besides, he wasnt overtaking anyone, he was THE LEADER OF THE RACE!

marcl Wrote:
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> Senna passed cars he thought were parked.

EXACTLY!!

He explained it all to the stewards and it was fine. The two situations are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Sutil was overtaking three cars for the positions, where as Senna wasnt gaining any advantage for it. The only thing he got from it was that Maldonado closed the gap to him because of Pantano's n00bness.

For me, they should be punished for blocking the leader...

---

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2008 02:50PM by Bruninho.

yellow flag means no overtaking, no matter if it´s for position or not

//edit: @ Bruninho

You don't understand yellow flags, do you?

You don't overtake. It's that simple. It doesn't matter which session, whether you're leading, lapping or getting a lap back. You don't overtake. In Senna's case it was double yellow flags, and frankly, in my opinion he should have been disqualified for passing under double yellows. You have to wait in line if the cars are stationary (the exception being those cars which have crashed or caused the yellow).

Regardless, when Sutil overtook Piquet, Piquet was stationary - Barrichello started as Sutil went inside of him, and Nakajima was creeping around the outside at crawling speed. If stationary cars didn't count, then Sutil only took Nakajima, but he was punished for overtaking all 3.

//edit: WTF? Blocking the leader? Are you serious?

1) It's @#$%& up... they were being held up by a crash

2) They wouldn't have known it was the leaders

3) There were no blue flags, and as such, had no obligation to let anyone else through, even if they could, whether they wanted to or not

You're just flaming now. Surely you can't be that blinkered. :\



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2008 03:04PM by gav.

Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gav Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Interestingly, what was the difference between
> > that and what Senna did in the GP2 race at
> > Mirabeau (with no penalty I should add, and
> with
> > the same race stewards)?
>
> Oh, come on, he said that the team told him on
> radio to do so, when he arrived at Mirabeau the
> chaos was caused by Pantano, I would have done the
> same! Besides, he wasnt overtaking anyone, he was
> THE LEADER OF THE RACE!
>
> marcl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Senna passed cars he thought were parked.
>
> EXACTLY!!
>
> He explained it all to the stewards and it was
> fine. The two situations are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
> Sutil was overtaking three cars for the positions,
> where as Senna wasnt gaining any advantage for it.
> The only thing he got from it was that Maldonado
> closed the gap to him because of Pantano's
> n00bness.
>
> For me, they should be punished for blocking the
> leader...

You can't be serious. Your motorsport knowledge cannot be lacking THAT much surely.

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If senna had been passed the guy that passed him would have been given a penalty, senna should have sat there like the rest and waited.

Thinking about its both sutil and Senna passed under yellow flags and we have seen grid penalites for that and race penalties. remember Brazil 1993 senna was waved past a back marker under yellow senna then got a stop go penalty.

So regardless you should not pass under yellow.

I have not seen the Bruno senna thing but maybe he thought they had all gone out the race. I dont know.

Sutil though did know what he was doing simple as that. So yes we felt sorry for him when kimi crashed into him but he should not have been there and if he finished there he probably would not have kept the points just like how he scored his point in Japan last year. He got the point as a car passed him under yellow and got moved back and the same happened to Scott Speed.

Hmmm yeah that'd be a small consolation for Force India then

But of course, if there hadn't been a safety-car, than he would have lost only 2 places, to Raikkonen and Webber, as the gap to those behind KR and MW was larger than 25 seconds. And obviously, without SC, Raikkonen wouldn't have hit the back of his car.

But obviously, 'IF' doesn't count in racing

In a way, Force India don't need to blaim Raikkonen but Rosberg , his crash caused Sutil losing all his advantage

---

Well if we're talking hypothetically, then Sutil wouldn't have been in such a position had he not taken cars under the yellow. He'd probably have still been stuck behind Barrichello, or if he played the strategy well then at best Webber.

Just give the whole field a penalty and everyone is happy

had it been Massa the one who drove over Sutil or had that shitty race in Monaco this discussion would've ended long time ago

[www.autosport.com]

I guess Massa would be more like already banned from next race..

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

IWE schreef:
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> I guess Massa would be more like already banned
> from next race..

the number 1 ferrari always gets the better threatment from the fia, even back in the days of schumi, good old fia

I actually think kimi is missing motivation. He has always made it clear he will not be in f1 for years and years and now he won the world championship what is his motivation? I dunno but just like at mclaren in his last year he is making errors which kimi never used to do really.

I can never tell with kimi, I don't really think anyone knows what's going on in his head. He may stick around for ten more years, collecting bumper paycheques based on his previous career form, or he may win a couple more championships and call it quits. I guess it'll be the latter, but who knows?