Head: F1 grids should be reversed

Lol! I dont see them getting slower than gp2 cars even if they would just deside to ban those already today. And if they will deside to ban those, then information about it would be given anyway early enought (minimum 1year) so teams can change basic consept to compromize changes. This should also make passing a lot easier.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

IWE schreef:
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> Lol! I dont see them getting slower than gp2 cars
> even if they would just deside to ban those
> already today. And if they will deside to ban
> those, then information about it would be given
> anyway early enought (minimum 1year) so teams can
> change basic consept to compromize changes. This
> should also make passing a lot easier.


Have you seen the gp2 cars? They are getting more winglets every year and with a strong 580 hp engine, I can see them becoming faster then f1, once they ban winglets, only way back would be ground-effect... but i cant see that happening.

ROFL, slower than GP2 if they removed the winglets? That's brilliant.

/me makes mental note

gav schreef:
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> ROFL, slower than GP2 if they removed the
> winglets? That's brilliant.
>
> /me makes mental note


Even Alonso said it if it was going on like this, but hey who is he, only 2 times champ

Oh yeah, sure. Dallara is going to produce a standard GP2 chassis that is faster than F1, with 300-400hp less.

A radical idea to improve the spectacle of Formula One and make overtaking easier has been proposed by Williams team co-owner Patrick Head.

It isn't radical. Stop using the word radical. Copying someone elses idea is not radical.

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They are on some circuits only 5 seconds away, taking away winglets can cost seriously time, so it is possible

It will cost the no more than 3seconds imo.
though about these new rules, they say no barge boards dont they? so, would that mean an end to the heavily sculptured undercut sidepods and back to boxy ones?

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Date: March 12, 2008 09:38AM
Posted by: Iceman-Kimi (IP Logged)

They are on some circuits only 5 seconds away, taking away winglets can cost seriously time, so it is possible

Urgh, stop talking. No. It isn't possible. For several reasons

1 - if you remove the winglets, the designers WILL find other ways to get some of it back. You cannot undo progress.

2 - the FIA aren't as stupid as you seem to think. they wouldnt let GP2 be close to F1. As soon as it gets a bit close, watch the GP2 chassis get weighted up, or a downforce cut, or a tyre compound hardened etc.

This isn't bloody rocket science. It's common sense. Think about it.

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I think we can also add Shumachers time on slicks and low downforce... he set a 1.19.xxx at Jerez did he not? A good 2 seconds faster than the BMW's and Hondas when they went out on slicks and low downforce lol.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

chet Wrote:
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> It will cost the no more than 3seconds imo.


Expert chet strikes again! Methinks that is a number plucked from the sky...

I'm generally quite a traditionalist on these matters, but I'm quite open to having reversed grids, if it's based on championship order. I'm not bothered about the whole argument about faster cars crashing into the slower guys. The faster guys should be better drivers anyway, and able to judge their overtaking. I'd maybe like to see a non-championship race just to try it. Not that such a thing would ever happen.

[Website]

If there'd been a reverse grid race in '07, would McLaren have been vaulted to the front or shoved to the back of the grid, due to their championship standing being nullified?

If more overtaking was the objective, they might turn the fastest into lead balloons and give the slowest the relative weight of ballet dancers. But it's not the point! The point is to get to the front and protect position.

A different points system, tracks with more heavy braking zones and TV directors that foucs on the whole field, not just the usual suspects, would do more to activate that 'missing' overtaking. Anyway, if there was a reverse grid, the midfield would still be midfield? Williams...

mcdo Wrote:
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> If there'd been a reverse grid race in '07, would
> McLaren have been vaulted to the front or shoved
> to the back of the grid, due to their championship
> standing being nullified?

I guess you'd put them at the back as part of their punishment.

> Anyway, if there was a reverse grid, the midfield
> would still be midfield? Williams...

They'd start the race in midfield, but whether they stay there would depend upon whether or not they could get past the slow guys in front before they get passed by the fast guys behind. I guess, in effect, the race then centres around the midfield.

[Website]

If McLaren were guaranteed to be last in the championship, and the reverse grid was based on championship positions as the OP article suggested, they'd have an argument saying they should be first in a reverse grid scenario. They wouldn't score any championship points, but it could help their drivers.

And would Williams be passed by the fastest before they passed the slowest? I'd like to model it, as it were, in GP32K.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2008 03:25PM by mcdo.

DaveEllis schreef:
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> Date: March 12, 2008 09:38AM
> Posted by: Iceman-Kimi (IP Logged)
>
> They are on some circuits only 5 seconds away,
> taking away winglets can cost seriously time, so
> it is possible
>
> Urgh, stop talking. No. It isn't possible. For
> several reasons
>
> 1 - if you remove the winglets, the designers WILL
> find other ways to get some of it back. You cannot
> undo progress.
>
> 2 - the FIA aren't as stupid as you seem to think.
> they wouldnt let GP2 be close to F1. As soon as it
> gets a bit close, watch the GP2 chassis get
> weighted up, or a downforce cut, or a tyre
> compound hardened etc.
>
> This isn't bloody rocket science. It's common
> sense. Think about it.


There are other series quite close, not being under the rules of the FIA, what will they do then?

chet schreef:
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> It will cost the no more than 3seconds imo.
> though about these new rules, they say no barge
> boards dont they? so, would that mean an end to
> the heavily sculptured undercut sidepods and back
> to boxy ones?


5 seconds from the fastest f1 man to the fastest gp2 man, that means several gp2 cars are faster then some teams like Honda.

God, Honda aren't that slow are they? If that's factual, maybe they're should be a divisional, relegation system, as in the EPL. Imagine Jenson relegated to GP2.

Iceman-Kimi schreef:
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> Sometimes it is not possible to remove winglets,
> how fast will the car go? They will be slower then
> gp2 cars, f1 would stop being the fastest
> motorsport class, that would me a disaster imo...

Your argumentations is a disaster.

Iceman-Kimi schreef:
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> DaveEllis schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Date: March 12, 2008 09:38AM
> > Posted by: Iceman-Kimi (IP Logged)
> >
> > They are on some circuits only 5 seconds away,
> > taking away winglets can cost seriously time,
> so
> > it is possible
> >
> > Urgh, stop talking. No. It isn't possible. For
> > several reasons
> >
> > 1 - if you remove the winglets, the designers
> WILL
> > find other ways to get some of it back. You
> cannot
> > undo progress.
> >
> > 2 - the FIA aren't as stupid as you seem to
> think.
> > they wouldnt let GP2 be close to F1. As soon as
> it
> > gets a bit close, watch the GP2 chassis get
> > weighted up, or a downforce cut, or a tyre
> > compound hardened etc.
> >
> > This isn't bloody rocket science. It's common
> > sense. Think about it.
>
>
> There are other series quite close, not being
> under the rules of the FIA, what will they do
> then?

Nothing? Because it won't happen? You might want to tell us what those series are. Just like you can't seem to name the tracks GP2 drivers are close to F1 drivers.

Iceman-Kimi schreef:
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> chet schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It will cost the no more than 3seconds imo.
> > though about these new rules, they say no barge
> > boards dont they? so, would that mean an end to
> > the heavily sculptured undercut sidepods and
> back
> > to boxy ones?
>
>
> 5 seconds from the fastest f1 man to the fastest
> gp2 man, that means several gp2 cars are faster
> then some teams like Honda.

The pole on the Nurburgring, a very average track, for GP2 was 1:40.977. F1 fastest time in quali: 1:30.912. Slowest time: 1:35.940, by Markus Winkelhock, a rookie. So nothing to worry.

mcdo Wrote:
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> If McLaren were guaranteed to be last in the
> championship, and the reverse grid was based on
> championship positions as the OP article
> suggested, they'd have an argument saying they
> should be first in a reverse grid scenario. They
> wouldn't score any championship points, but it
> could help their drivers.

Not really. Starting at the back would be a further punishment for cheating.

[Website]

Iceman-Kimi Wrote:
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> 5 seconds from the fastest f1 man to the fastest
> gp2 man, that means several gp2 cars are faster
> then some teams like Honda.

The Life car was slower than the safety car (in one session it was slower than a push-bike :D). Does that mean the regulations were @#$%&, or Life?

For the record, my uninformed guess would be a max of 1.5seconds over a lap on a fairly average speed track (so long as barge-boards were to be allowed). The overall shape of the car is much more critical. The 2009-spec cars weren't that much slower than the 2007 ones.

gav schrieb:
> The Life car was slower than the safety car (in
> one session it was slower than a push-bike :D).
> Does that mean the regulations were @#$%&, or
> Life?

hehe, i would say life was @#$%&