Head: F1 grids should be reversed

mcdo Wrote:
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> God, Honda aren't that slow are they? If that's
> factual, maybe they're should be a divisional,
> relegation system, as in the EPL. Imagine Jenson
> relegated to GP2.


Impossible. But I can see his teammate being relegated to British F3 after a GP2 relegation :P

---

Iceman-Kimi Wrote:
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> There are other series quite close, not being
> under the rules of the FIA, what will they do
> then?

Sometimes I wish forum posts were physical items. That way I could pick it up and beat you with your own post.

First off, putting a wink on the end doesn't make it sound like you found a cleaver work around to my post, it just makes you look like a clueless fool.

Secondly, what the HELL does that have to do with what I said? What series are "quote close" to F1 lap times? Remembering CCWS is dead, IRL is slower round a road course than CCWS, and even if it was close, it isn't in competition with F1, or on the ladder to f1, so the point is irrelevant. The only other series I can think of that could be considered even remotely close are the Le Mans Prototypes in ALMS and LMS, which are again not the same ladder as F1, and A1GP. But anyone who knows anything about motorsport (something that seems to be somewhat rare now days) should know how slow A1GP ares.

So, what other series are "quite close" and "not being under the FIA"?

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Nickv schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iceman-Kimi schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sometimes it is not possible to remove
> winglets,
> > how fast will the car go? They will be slower
> then
> > gp2 cars, f1 would stop being the fastest
> > motorsport class, that would me a disaster
> imo...
>
> Your argumentations is a disaster.
>
> Iceman-Kimi schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DaveEllis schreef:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Date: March 12, 2008 09:38AM
> > > Posted by: Iceman-Kimi (IP Logged)
> > >
> > > They are on some circuits only 5 seconds
> away,
> > > taking away winglets can cost seriously time,
> > so
> > > it is possible
> > >
> > > Urgh, stop talking. No. It isn't possible.
> For
> > > several reasons
> > >
> > > 1 - if you remove the winglets, the designers
> > WILL
> > > find other ways to get some of it back. You
> > cannot
> > > undo progress.
> > >
> > > 2 - the FIA aren't as stupid as you seem to
> > think.
> > > they wouldnt let GP2 be close to F1. As soon
> as
> > it
> > > gets a bit close, watch the GP2 chassis get
> > > weighted up, or a downforce cut, or a tyre
> > > compound hardened etc.
> > >
> > > This isn't bloody rocket science. It's common
> > > sense. Think about it.
> >
> >
> > There are other series quite close, not being
> > under the rules of the FIA, what will they do
> > then?
>
> Nothing? Because it won't happen? You might want
> to tell us what those series are. Just like you
> can't seem to name the tracks GP2 drivers are
> close to F1 drivers.
>
> Iceman-Kimi schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > chet schreef:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It will cost the no more than 3seconds imo.
> > > though about these new rules, they say no
> barge
> > > boards dont they? so, would that mean an end
> to
> > > the heavily sculptured undercut sidepods and
> > back
> > > to boxy ones?
> >
> >
> > 5 seconds from the fastest f1 man to the
> fastest
> > gp2 man, that means several gp2 cars are faster
> > then some teams like Honda.
>
> The pole on the Nurburgring, a very average track,
> for GP2 was 1:40.977. F1 fastest time in quali:
> 1:30.912. Slowest time: 1:35.940, by Markus
> Winkelhock, a rookie. So nothing to worry.


Just 2 avarage test days at barcelona:

1 J. Trulli Toyota 01:20.801 83
19 J. Button Honda 01:24.275 73


1 G. Pantano Racing Engineering 01:26.351 57

And Dave, yes I was thinking about ccws, but i forgot they where dead indeed, but you never know how fast the 2010 irl car would go.

gav schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iceman-Kimi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 5 seconds from the fastest f1 man to the
> fastest
> > gp2 man, that means several gp2 cars are faster
> > then some teams like Honda.
>
> The Life car was slower than the safety car (in
> one session it was slower than a push-bike :D).
> Does that mean the regulations were @#$%&, or
> Life?
>
> For the record, my uninformed guess would be a max
> of 1.5seconds over a lap on a fairly average speed
> track (so long as barge-boards were to be
> allowed). The overall shape of the car is much
> more critical. The 2009-spec cars weren't that
> much slower than the 2007 ones.


ofcourse Life was @#$%& but thats another era, those days you dont have such un-proffesional teams anymore. F1 would lose many time on gp2 cars, when those rules will come, except when we will have slicks (is it official yet?) then they might be 2 seconds faster again, like losing 3.5 seconds by removing winglets and winning 2 becouse of slicks, might be better with some huge turbo engine but i dont expect that.

It's not irrelevant. It's the supposed pinnacle of motorsport. All that's changed is that the small teams have been priced out of being able to run.

There was a point in F1 when the feeder series (then F2) raced against the F1 cars in the same race. One even qualified 3rd.

Most F1 drivers used to race for their teams in F2 cars too.

The only thing F1 has had over the traditional feeder series are regulations. It's not in competition with them.

Bad idea. Driving in reverse wouldn't be very safe.

________________________________________

Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...

THE SIG


Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.

Driving in reverse? Using the mirrors to see where you're going? That'd sort the talent from the dross, but we might see drivers deep throated by the refuellers!

Iceman-Kimi schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nickv schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Iceman-Kimi schreef:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Sometimes it is not possible to remove
> > winglets,
> > > how fast will the car go? They will be slower
> > then
> > > gp2 cars, f1 would stop being the fastest
> > > motorsport class, that would me a disaster
> > imo...
> >
> > Your argumentations is a disaster.
> >
> > Iceman-Kimi schreef:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > DaveEllis schreef:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Date: March 12, 2008 09:38AM
> > > > Posted by: Iceman-Kimi (IP Logged)
> > > >
> > > > They are on some circuits only 5 seconds
> > away,
> > > > taking away winglets can cost seriously
> time,
> > > so
> > > > it is possible
> > > >
> > > > Urgh, stop talking. No. It isn't possible.
> > For
> > > > several reasons
> > > >
> > > > 1 - if you remove the winglets, the
> designers
> > > WILL
> > > > find other ways to get some of it back. You
> > > cannot
> > > > undo progress.
> > > >
> > > > 2 - the FIA aren't as stupid as you seem to
> > > think.
> > > > they wouldnt let GP2 be close to F1. As
> soon
> > as
> > > it
> > > > gets a bit close, watch the GP2 chassis get
> > > > weighted up, or a downforce cut, or a tyre
> > > > compound hardened etc.
> > > >
> > > > This isn't bloody rocket science. It's
> common
> > > > sense. Think about it.
> > >
> > >
> > > There are other series quite close, not being
> > > under the rules of the FIA, what will they do
> > > then?
> >
> > Nothing? Because it won't happen? You might
> want
> > to tell us what those series are. Just like you
> > can't seem to name the tracks GP2 drivers are
> > close to F1 drivers.
> >
> > Iceman-Kimi schreef:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > chet schreef:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > It will cost the no more than 3seconds imo.
> > > > though about these new rules, they say no
> > barge
> > > > boards dont they? so, would that mean an
> end
> > to
> > > > the heavily sculptured undercut sidepods
> and
> > > back
> > > > to boxy ones?
> > >
> > >
> > > 5 seconds from the fastest f1 man to the
> > fastest
> > > gp2 man, that means several gp2 cars are
> faster
> > > then some teams like Honda.
> >
> > The pole on the Nurburgring, a very average
> track,
> > for GP2 was 1:40.977. F1 fastest time in quali:
> > 1:30.912. Slowest time: 1:35.940, by Markus
> > Winkelhock, a rookie. So nothing to worry.
>
>
> Just 2 avarage test days at barcelona:
>
> 1 J. Trulli Toyota 01:20.801 83
> 19 J. Button Honda 01:24.275 73
>
>
> 1 G. Pantano Racing Engineering 01:26.351 57
>
> And Dave, yes I was thinking about ccws, but i
> forgot they where dead indeed, but you never know
> how fast the 2010 irl car would go.


You make yourself look like a total newbie to F1. You have no idea at all what testing programs Button and Pantano had, or the weather conditions. What I did was picking two times from two identical situations from two different series in the same weekend.
What you did was picking a possibly different situations from two different series in tests that were a week apart.

Agreed, it's a silly comparison and a poor argument.

Maybe it is, but im not the only one thinking about it like that:

[en.f1-live.com]

The fact that he is a world champion doesn't make him right. Remember how much nonsense Lauda has thrown into the world, he was a WDC.

Yes but Alonso is an insider at this moment, lauda is from a whole different era.

Alonso might be "insider" but doesnt change fact how big mouth he have..

I guess he is more worried about losing even rest if his rep if car becomes even bit more unstable than f1 losing tecnical lead compared to other series.

Personally I think F1 will be even more king of motorsport series when cars will have really clean body, slicks and possibly even smaller engines than now(maybe turbo who knows..). I dont see any sence in this wow we are 1sec faster with 6.5l V16, all driving-aids and having wings and winglets on 50 different levels from ground.


EDIT: I guess Alonso and some people in wishes that we end to same point when about 15 years ago 1 of top teams got offer to be able to make their car to drive around track by itself.. (No wonder that even TC and other stuff got banned soon after it).

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2008 06:24PM by IWE.

Stop exagerating IWE, he's not saying that at all.
One good point Fernando makes is that he wants slicks re-introduced which combined with a reduction in winglets and other aero parts that look hideous and do nothing for the racing, should give us better racing, more work for the drivers and still have decent lap times.