more computerized help?

Hi all!

I had the luck at a conference a few days back to talk a little with an italian professor who is partly working for the F1 Toyota team in Cologne ... he told me that next year there will be almost no limitation anymore on electronical devices "supporting the driver" ... well the data transfer thing is well known to be pushed at the moment, but driver support systems? ... is this really true, did I miss something? I know he is working more on the engine side so maybe he (or I) mixed something up here ...

What do you think about this development?
Is F1 changing to an "automated sport"?

We already have bi-directional comm this year. That means the team already can sewnd data to the car during a race and change engine/rev settings, update computer programmes, etc. Technically they can control the car from the pits. Together with traction control, launch control, power steering, etc, there is a lot less work left to do for the driver. Practically the driver still counts, since if it was just up to the technical stuff involved, Webber wouldn't be 3 seconds ahead of his team mate Yoong.

---

REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS

Yes, I get your point ...

but what about automatic breaking with ABS or these new steering help developments, similar to active roll-over prevention systems or tire wear and grip indicators based on mathematical observers ... all these exist ... will they be allowed in F1??

I just hope that the skills of drivers will remain to be an important issue in the near future ... but not which team was lucky enough to pick the best parameters for the control systems ...

Formula One has two sites: The driver championship and the constructors title. Originally the latter was the more important one. Do you believe Daimler/Chrysler, Fiat (Ferrari), BMW or Toyota spend millions and zillions of cash just to let cars drive around in circles? Most likely not. They want to sell cars and show how technically advanced their products are. Thus if we wqant F1 to be the crown of motorsports - and without Mercedes, Ferrari, BMW it would certainly not be - we will have to accept the fact that is a hightech sport. It is not only the best drivers, it also is the best technology.

---

REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS

I agree, but still I feel the tendency that the drivers are gradually getting less and less important for the success of the teams .... I know an excellent driver is still essential for success ... but for how long? and what then?

Just thinking ....

"I agree, but still I feel the tendency that the drivers are gradually getting less and less important"

100% agree. Kimi jumped in almost from karting! Ok, hes good, but shurely he shouldnt be able to do that?

Massa said tha cars are easy to drive. Traction control, launch Control and Auto Gears. CART looks much better. Actaully IRC looks the best!




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

But it is stone-age technology, this is why these series will never be top. I do not know about IRC, but as for IRL, it is basically a series with 26 (or more or less - who cares?) Yoongs* that make the pace car come out at least once in a lap. CART will get different engine rules soon as well and I bet they will technological upgrade to get more attractive world wide. Plus we have a Niki Lauda who once said a monkey could drive a modern F1 car. After driving his own Jag he found out this was not the case. A monkey (like most of us) would not even survive the huge amount of g-forces due to the increased corner speed (even with grooved tyres). F1 driving is still hard, no matter what Massa says. He wouldn't possibly tell us if he had @!#$ has pants on his first testing day. Who knows the truth?


* minus one Castroneves and on DeFerran

---

REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS

But u see - technology dont matter that much over there. In the US series you see who is the better diver, and not who has the best car!

IRC is the "International Race Of Champions". It consists of drivers from NASCAR, CART, IRL and other American series to find the best. De Ferran, Castronevis, Andretti, Labonte, they have all raced in it.

Its cars that are similar to the Le Mans corvettes. They are not simliar to any of the other US series, so nobody has an advantage. There is about 9 races per year, all but two on ovals i think.

F1 is puts too much notice on the cars - MS is miles ahead cos the Ferrari is, Button aint winning cos the cars not good enough. All we get in F1 is endless excuses about the cars etc.

This does not occur in CART

Vades, u missed out another amazing CART driver. - Chritiano Da Matta - he won 4 races in a row and would have made it a record 5 if he didnt have techincal problems in Cleaveland

You also missed Paul tracey (the REAL Indy 500 winner of 2002) and Dario Franchitti. Tracey has been plauged with tech probs in almost everyrace, and Dario, desptie haveing the same problem (even rear wings coming off) is still 3rd in the CART series the last time i check

As for CARTs engine rules, a rect announcement said the rules will stay static for at least another 3 years - turbos will stay.

If anything, CART will become more SIMPLE as theres not many teams cos of the high budgets required to run the cars.

Recently there was a race on and Barry Green (team green owner) siad u used to be able to run a team on $15million (US dollars), now, that doesnt even cover the engine budegt.




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

I was just taking about IRL drivers, not about CART racers, who are all ace. Still, in the beginning F1 was only a constructors championship and the driver title was something that was not so important. Frankly - if something is possible they will do it anway, be it in the rules or not. They have always done it, the big teams have always used some sort of illegal devices. As for Button - the Renault is not that bad, they can almost keep up with the McLarens. I think too he is a bit overrated (like Heidfeld). Kimi is better, Alonso is better, Webber is better.

---

REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS

"Kimi is better, Alonso is better, Webber is better."

In my mind, there is no doubt about that.

I dont think Heidfeld is over-rated tho. He did beat Kimi in 2001, altho it was only Kimis first season. He managed to take of Kimis front wing in USA 2001 tho :@




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

Hmmm... I still think Button is going to prove you guys wrong. You don't qualify third at Spa in your debut year - only a year or two out of karting - unless you're pretty darn good. We'll see more of this amazing talent from Button in the future. And as for Heidfeld, I agree with Dave. He's one of my firmest bets for a future champion.

Button, Raikkonen, Heidfeld, Alonso, Massa (when he calms down

That's the future generation of greats. And look out for Lewis Hamilton.




HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

I agree with Raikonen, Alonso and Massa. I also add Webber, JPM and Franchitti to that after the success of JPM and JV




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

"But u see - technology dont matter that much over there. In the US series you see who is the better diver, and not who has the best car!"

exactly, wouldn't it be interesting to see our F1 drivers all compete with cars of equal quality ...

I mean, when you take a look at the Ferrari you see how extremely "soft" and "drivable" they've managed to set the car ... while other drivers obviously are fighting just to survive the race ... and the difference in speed is simply getting too much ... Schumi overlapping Coulthard ... it's too much for my taste ...

But just like Vader pointed out, viewing the history of F1 it seems very unlikely that there can or will be any change here ...

And another point is, of course, that the great F1 driver is supposed to combine fantastic driving skills with technical know-how ... I just wonder how much the technical know-how is worth when some teams have a lot more money to work with than others ... not to mention equipment, personal and even wind-channels ...

I think these contrasts are getting a little "too" overwhelming ... but I can't think of a solution to it ....

"viewing the history of F1 it seems very unlikely that there can or will be any change here ..."

actaully in a recent AutoSport mag there was claims and interviews about chassis sharing in F1. They already do it with engines, and soon there may be chassis too




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

Speaking of driver skill and car differences. Mark Webber was lapped once at Magny-Cours. Alex Yoong was lapped no less than 4 times!

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

lol, that means webber lapped his team mate? LOL




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

forgive the uber dig, but seriously, we need -Alex- back on our humble site:

Re: more computerized help?
Date: July 24, 2002 03:02PM
Posted by: -Alex- (IP Logged)

That's the future generation of greats. And look out for Lewis Hamilton.






That's five years before he got into a driver's seat in F1. I'm not LH's biggest fan so I wouldn't put him amongst greats (yet, anyway) but still, I can't predict tomorrow's weather. I <3 alex

He got Button and Heidfeld wrong...

[Website]

Sorry, not into this F1 Forum, but Button did win a great race at Hungary, and Heidfeld is pretty darn quick (Quick-Nick)

Maybe Button isn't a great driver, but pretty good in my opinion, and Nick.. Well, I think he is a great driver too, just look at his overtake in the last corner of Silvertone this afternoon! That's enough reason already!

_________________________________

Ferrari_Fuhrer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He got Button and Heidfeld wrong...

Neither would be a 'great', but I if they were sat in the right car, each would have won a good few races, DC style. Button perhaps a few more. Instead he's stagnating at Honda, doing very little. He'll never even remotely challenge for a title there, and if he feels he will, he's deluding himself. They're in it for the long haul - I don't think Button's going to last long enough to be there if it ever happens.

It's all good and well saying Heidfeld's little use this year, but in the past 3 years he's been called one of the most underrated drivers on the grid. Again, he doesn't have the killer instinct that a Kimi or Alonso have, but he'd have sat very nicely in that 2nd McLaren seat that DC and Montoya held and probably won a few races in it.

I'd argue both are stronger than Massa, though Massa on his day is pretty formidable. The problem is everything has be ideal for him to have one. He could have been awesome, and he's so much better than when he came into F1 (though on Silverstone's evidence, you'd argue it was the old Massa showing it's still there).