The 2014 Formula One Season

I've been impressed with Kvyat this season; although I'm surprised, I'm nevertheless pleased to see him in the seat. Must be gutting for AFdC, but he's just not taken the fight to Magnussen and Vandoorne this year.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

It works both ways. We've had a golden era of F1, with an unprecedented 6 world champions on the grid together, and I for one loved that.

I'd love it if drivers were getting in purely on ability alone, but the likes of Chilton and Maldonado show otherwise. OK, Chilton's not exactly Lavaggi and Maldonado has plenty of genuine ability (but 90% of the time fails to come good with it), but neither are going to be etched into the halls of fame. It's good that companies continue to support their drivers, but you can't help but feel there are better drivers out there who would be in their seats if they weren't waving a wad of notes in team managers faces.



As for Kvyat, we've seen it go two ways. Alguersuari arguable came into F1 too soon and it harmed his long-term chances (though I still say Red Bull were very harsh to show him the door), but Raikkonen isn't the world's worst driver, and he came in to F1 off the back of something like 26 single-seater races. It takes a special kind of mentality to succeed in F1 with so little prior experience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2013 07:43AM by gav.

It makes you(or me anyway) wonder how young a driver can actually come into F1. Sergey will be 18, assuming he makes his debut in Melbourne. Nico(Rosberg) first drove an F1 car when he was 17. How young could they actually start?
I guess it depends on how much prior motorsport experience they have, regardless of their age.


gav Wrote:
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> We've had a golden era of F1,
> with an unprecedented 6 world champions on the
> grid together, and I for one loved that.

It's not done yet. I can't wait to see Kimi and Alonso in the same team, and the possibility of them fighting with Vettel for a title, plus the near-certainty of the 2014 regs mashing up the grid. It should continue being awesome for at least another couple of seasons.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2013 12:44PM by EC83.

That was certainly a surprise, maybe Marko feels that since Da Costa got fairly comprehensively beaten by Magnussen and Vandoorne then there's little point in putting him in a Toro Rosso to get comprehensively beaten by Vergne.

But here's a thought, This Kvyat kid is Russian... the Inagurgal Russian Grand Prix is due to be held next year. Are Red Bull coining a move to take advantage of the Russian Market? In any case it looks like there is going to be a few Russian drivers around for the next few years, Kvyat, Sirotkin and I wouldn't rule Petrov out of finding some cash either.

Quote

From 1998-2002 you could consider the following to be 'pay drivers'
- Pedro Diniz
- Ricardo Rosset(?)
- Esteban Tuero
- Pedro de la Rosa (admit it! He brought the Repsol sponsorship!)
- Gaston Mazzacane
- Enrique Bernoldi
- Alex Yoong
- Takuma Sato


Total: 8


2010-2014
- Vitaly Petrov
- Adrian Sutil
- Bruno Senna
- Pastor Maldonado
- Narain Karthikeyan
- Daniel Ricciardo (admit it! It's unlikely he would've got the HRT drive otherwise!)
- Sergio Perez
- Estban Gutiérrez
- Giedo van der Garde
- Max Chilton
- Sergey Sirotkin (potentially)
- Daniil Kvyat


Total: 12

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GPGSL -
GPGSL-3 - Pizza Party Racing manager and driver
Nations Cup - Team Scotland manager

smoglessbutton4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From 1998-2002 you could consider the following to
> be 'pay drivers'
> - Pedro Diniz
> - Ricardo Rosset(?)
> - Esteban Tuero
> - Pedro de la Rosa (admit it! He brought the
> Repsol sponsorship!)
> - Gaston Mazzacane
> - Enrique Bernoldi
> - Alex Yoong
> - Takuma Sato
>
>
> Total: 8

In addition:

- Toranosuke Takagi (PIAA and Mild Seven paid)
- Marc Gene (Telefonica paid)
- Shinji Nakano (I believe Avex Group supported Minardi with a seat)
- Tomas Enge (Ceska Pojistovna, word on the street was that he was believed to have Coca-Cola sponsorship at the time)
- Tarso Marques (brought some money from somewhere, he was part of a wealthy Brazilian family)

I'd take Sato off that list though, simply because he was a Honda bargaining tool rather than an outright paydriver. Ricardo Rosset DEFINITELY was; BAT wanted someone to balance the books and this meant Rosset joined Tyrrell for 1998 instead of retaining Verstappen. Incensed, Ken Tyrrell left the team a year early.

> 2010-2014
> - Vitaly Petrov
> - Adrian Sutil
> - Bruno Senna
> - Pastor Maldonado
> - Narain Karthikeyan
> - Daniel Ricciardo (admit it! It's unlikely he
> would've got the HRT drive otherwise!)
> - Sergio Perez
> - Estban Gutiérrez
> - Giedo van der Garde
> - Max Chilton
> - Sergey Sirotkin (potentially)
> - Daniil Kvyat
>
>
> Total: 12

Although Sutil brought Medion to Spyker/Force India, he's probably not the best example of a pay-driver. I don't think you can class Kvyat as one either; sure, some Russian sponsors might help his cause but ultimately he's a Red Bull Young Driver, and one who's performed very well indeed.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

So that would make the totals 12 and 10 respectively - so, to those who think there's more pay drivers now than ever...!

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GPGSL -
GPGSL-3 - Pizza Party Racing manager and driver
Nations Cup - Team Scotland manager

I think "pay-driver" has a few negative connotations that don't need to be there. Sure, in the '90s we had the likes of Lavaggi and Deletraz clogging up the circuits but nowadays the drivers now who come "financially incentivised" are more than capable of dealing with the demands of Formula 1. You get places like /r/Formula1 where every post seems to be demeaning to Max Chilton, but he's proven himself a rather good driver, and he's been far closer to Bianchi who is a rather highly-rated driver. Maybe his dad DOES help out with paying for his drive, but that's not to say he doesn't deserve to be in F1 at all.

I think most of the anger from the masses comes from the fact that there's drivers like Kobayashi and Alguersuari who have shown promise but don't have drives in F1 and therefore this is why people think that helping a team out with sponsorship that some drivers bring is some kind of affliction within the sport. However, that's the ball-game it's become in this financial climate.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

I think ultimately, the pay drivers who are in F1 generally deserve to be in F1.

There are good drivers missing out, but Incident 2k9's examples of Kobayashi and Alguersuari aren't exactly brilliant drivers being forced out of F1 - while Kobayashi is good and awesome to watch, he's on the cusp of not delivering enough to have an F1 seat, and Alguersuari probably still would be in F1 if Red Bull had waited a year or two before forcing him in at what I feel was too young an age (mentally, not necessarily on ability), but ultimately the people backing him are the same people who broke him.

i think the current amount and quality of "pay drivers" is acceptable. 1994 really takes the cake in that respect imho

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

1994 was the worst season I can remember for shitty pay drivers coming in and doing the odd race, it had always happened to an extent but that season took the piss. In Japan and Australia the entire second half of the grid seemed to be changing like a fruit machine. The only saving grace was that Lavaggi didn't drive.

Now at least, as said already, they're actually good enough to deserve a place in F1. It's done in such a more professional way.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2013 12:13AM by EC83.

If you are good enough on merit to be in F1, you shouldn't have to pay. You pay because there is no better reason for your seat. That's real problem: Medium talent + huge check > High talent + little or no money.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Morbid Wrote:
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> If you are good enough on merit to be in F1, you
> shouldn't have to pay. You pay because there is no
> better reason for your seat. That's real problem:
> Medium talent + huge check > High talent + little
> or no money.


In an ideal world, yes. In the world in which we live, any extra funds will always attract a team's gaze.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

EC83 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1994 was the worst season I can remember for
> shitty pay drivers coming in and doing the odd
> race, it had always happened to an extent but that
> season took the piss. In Japan and Australia the
> entire second half of the grid seemed to be
> changing like a fruit machine. The only saving
> grace was that Lavaggi didn't drive.
>
> Now at least, as said already, they're actually
> good enough to deserve a place in F1. It's done in
> such a more professional way.

That kept things interesting though! Sometimes a few nut-jobs flying around near the back was entertaining. That was probably my favourite year in F1, 1994. In spite of what happened. It was the first year I watched properly so for me that is the "classic" year. And the Saubers were beautiful. And the Jordans.

Can someone explain to me how those slits in the engine covers contributed to safety after Imola? I REALLY don't understand.

loque Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1994 was the worst season I can remember for
> > shitty pay drivers coming in and doing the odd
> > race, it had always happened to an extent but
> that
> > season took the piss. In Japan and Australia
> the
> > entire second half of the grid seemed to be
> > changing like a fruit machine. The only saving
> > grace was that Lavaggi didn't drive.
> >
> > Now at least, as said already, they're actually
> > good enough to deserve a place in F1. It's done
> in
> > such a more professional way.
>
> That kept things interesting though! Sometimes a
> few nut-jobs flying around near the back was
> entertaining. That was probably my favourite year
> in F1, 1994. In spite of what happened. It was
> the first year I watched properly so for me that
> is the "classic" year. And the Saubers were
> beautiful. And the Jordans.
>
> Can someone explain to me how those slits in the
> engine covers contributed to safety after Imola?
> I REALLY don't understand.

It reduced the pressure of the air that was entering the airbox intake, which would reduce the power output of the engine since less oxygen was available.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Yeah, the perforated airboxes actually had minimal effect - so much so they were removed after the opening race of 1995, and the cars went to Argentina with normal airboxes again. So they were actually in F1 for roughly exactly one season.

RE nutjob drivers, the first season I watched F1 - 1989 - was pretty good for them; De Cesaris, Arnoux and Alliot all in full-time drives. Priceless.
(It was notable for glorious-sounding cars as well - that first generation of 3.5-litre post-turbo engines were the best sounding ones ever IMO.)

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I have a vivid memory of seeing Ricardo Rosset fail to qualify at Monaco in 1998. Ah , the good old days.

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

"A lot of people are debating whether or not Ricardo Rosset is Formula 1 material."
"Well it's a pretty short debate, Murray."

:D

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Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Morbid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you are good enough on merit to be in F1,
> you
> > shouldn't have to pay. You pay because there is
> no
> > better reason for your seat. That's real
> problem:
> > Medium talent + huge check > High talent +
> little
> > or no money.
>
>
> In an ideal world, yes. In the world in which we
> live, any extra funds will always attract a team's
> gaze.


It is not that easy. The sporting code is "may the best (wo)man win". This is the code which all sporting systems structure themselves around. The code of the market is "May the best price for the product prevail". This is what all markets structure themselves around. Capitalist market based logics have only penetrated F1 because it is too god damn expensive to run a team. But those codes are not compatible. Hence you get sporting competitors and hence by extension sporting results, that are based on market system logics and not sporting system logics, which undermines the credibility of the sport as a whole. One of the topics that was debated, that led to the failure of the Indian GP, was exactly that, is it a sport at all? And the funny thing is, that there are other sports where the top teams run on massive budgets too, where talent acquirement is not based on having a fat wallet. In fact, I'd like to challenge you to find just 3 other sports where having a cheque beats talent.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 10:14AM by Morbid.

A year early with this but still.... nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom



Yes please... just overlook the Shell / Courtalds sponsorship! (And Mercedes Power)






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2013 02:45PM by loque.