2012 German Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

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Incident 2k9
I believe McLaren DID have a good car, and that did seem to change as they raised the front nose. As this would raise the frontal CofG, it would make the handling very different than the more planted lower front end. Button struggled with this initially.

You're talking millimetres higher on a predominantly hollow structure. I know F1 is all about margins, but that's going to make @#$%& all difference to the centre of gravity and resulting handling. It's not even going to affect the front of the car, as all of the work is done forward of that - the nose is all about how you feed the flow to the rear end.

As for Alonso's lap, yes he ran wide on the last corner, but 1) it would have cost him time as it's a raised kerb he had to cross twice, unlike turn 1 where you can carry more speed by running wide, and 2) even if the time had been disallowed, he still would have been on pole as his 2nd fastest lap was still faster than anyone else.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2012 11:47PM by gav.

imho, the RedBull is still the fastest car.

from the outside it seems as if Vettel can make as many mistakes as possible, and still end up posting a competitive time same as Webber, not so much with the Ferrari, Alonso is driving superb, his laps are on the ragged edge all the time, and he manages to keep the car on the road whilst it seems he's gonna loose it any moment.

Yes, the Ferrari is not as bad as it seems, but it's not the fastest and Alonso is making it look as if it was... easily i can see Vettel leading the race after the first pit stop, they've been flying since Valencia, but they don't have an Alonso, keepin the car constantly on the edge.

i dont want to jump too soon, and this is probably very biased. but imho, if Alonso wins this championship, it'll be one of the most worthy champions of recent times, the best driver getting crowned, which is always a relief.. ala Schumacher ' 00 and '03, Kimi '07. in a Ferrari no less

also, Schumacher's getting better every weekend, it seems as EC83 said a few weeks back after Valencia, it's almost as if he's pumped after that podium , but unfurtunately the Mercedes is still not good enough to keep up with him, if it rains, he'll be a threat no doubt.

Looks like Red Bull could be in the @#$%&. Torque output from the engine at mid-range RPM is "significantly less than at other events". In short, throttle position doesn't correspond to engine output. Off throttle blown diffuser.

I'm guessing that, if they can't defend it, then if it's only at this event, then it'll be a case of thrown out of qualifying.

Yup, just found out...

But if they throw them from qualy, wouldn't they throw they off the race too? After inspection? Can they Modify the car after qualify? To cope with the rules? Or will they have to keep the car the same and face exclusion from race afterwards?

Red Bull haven't got punished for cheating ever before (flexi wing or blown diffuser) and and also this time it's not going to happen. Rules will be made more strict, but Red BUll gets anyway rest of year time to make excuses and FIA is not going to do anything.. Thx again FIA.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

Yeah, they always find the grey in the rules.

Sending Vettel to the back in his home race proved to be a handful for FIA

At least teams now know where to gain a few tenths. It's not ilegal afterall

EDIT: hmmm, interesting. They didn't show thw replay of Vettel crossing over Schumacher, did Michael had the front wing next to his rear tyre? (new rules say that's a considerable part of a car... Punishable)

HAHAHAHAHAHA

this is AWESOME... Lewis got Vettel's concetration



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2012 02:55PM by Slash.

Fascinating tactical battle at the front right now. If the tyres wear enough there could be just enough laps left for beautiful things to start happening!

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"Lewis Hamilon's first retirement this year and he will now want to erase the German Grand Prix from
his memory".

I guess Ben Edwards must have erased Valencia from his memory, too...

Amazing performance by Fernando! That was a driving lesson right there.
And not many beautiful things happened in the end, but meh.

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Hugely entertaining to watch Lewis mixing it up at the front while a lap down. Both Caterhams letting him through because they thought he was a lap ahead was particularly hilarious. I'm slightly disappointed that Jenson still couldn't pull it off even with Lewis' help. the season's quickest pitstop (?) and a very quick McLaren. He's just not very audacious.

Breaking news: Vettel gets 20-second penalty for overtaking off the track - demoted to fifth place @andrewbenson

BBC F1 Twitter

ferrariman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Breaking news: Vettel gets 20-second penalty for
> overtaking off the track - demoted to fifth place
> @andrewbenson
>
> BBC F1 Twitter


Lol, was just about to post this!

20 seconds? Too harsh.

imo Vettel was avoiding a collision. He was not intending to gain and advantage but instead avoid any tightness in the closing stages. I would put it down to a racing incident, but the fact was he got an advantage off track and therefore passed. Penalty was fair but 5 seconds, not 20. He never intended to break the rules, never intended to get an advantage but he did so a penalty was perhaps needed.

Race was good. I would argue the RedBull was quickest and Vettel just did not get the job done. In fact I would also argue Button had the 2nd quickest car too and Alonso won with the 3rd quickest car.

Today what happened was Alonso just showed his class and proved again that he is the best driver. I do not believe he had any right getting pole (twice!) yesterday and I do not believe the Ferrari had any right winning the race against Vettel in that RedBull. So a rather disappointing performance from Vettel in that respect. I feel he was simply out classed and out driven by a better driver.

Was pleasing to see Button up there again. I just wonder what could have happened if he started further up. The time he lost racing the others cost him hugely. From then on it was a race of catching up and I guess in doing so his strategy/tyres were always going to be in a worse position.

There question's about his pace in the last few races but he himself never doubted. When he said it was all luck in Valencia I would agree with him. Silverstone, he was as quick as Lewis and today I believe had Lewis not had the puncture then the result would have been Jenson beating Lewis still.

Kimi was impressive as were the Saubers. Im glad Kobayashi beat Perez. Perez is good but I can't say I am fan of his. Pastor was disappointing, times suggest he was out paced by Bruno who needs to desperately sort qualifying. Grosjean has looked like a GP2 driver all weekend.

Good drive by Nico too IMO. He was embarrassed yesterday IMO. Badly. But sorted it today.

As for Hungary? With a strong Finish fanbase my money is going on Kimi (Or Grosjean). We will not see track temperatures dip below 35 degrees IMO. And I think it's about time they won.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Actually Maldonado had a problem with his car, Senna would never match his pace in normal circumstances

I thought it was a good race, and would agree had Button started further up, then I could have seen him taking the victory. I think the Vettel penalty is deserved, I believe that is the lowest time penalty that can be added on, if it had been towards the beginning of the race he simply would have been told to let Button back through.

________________________________________________________________
GPGSL
Christel VXR: S12 onwards | Wins: 3 | Poles: 3 | Fastest Laps: 2

Was an ok race.

Really happy rbr did not win the race.

Vettel 100% deserved that penalty. Vettel was lucky to not get a penalty for running off track every other lap and nearly pushing MS off track on lap one. And he also showed himself to be a liar as we all heard JB say to him they are going to look at his pass and when ask Vettel said JB had said nothing.

Great driving by Alonso and a good race by JB.

Alosno has a big gap now I would say its between him Vettel and Webber, Lewis is not to far back.

As for Vettel calling Lewis stupid, well there is no rule against a faster car un lapping them self so tough luck. Maybe its not in the spirt of the sport but RbR would know all about that

Was not impressed with Lewis wanting to retire after the flat tyre but maybe he thought the car was finished.

I think the problem with Vettel at the moment is that he got too used to winning and is struggling to come to terms with having a real fight on his hands again. This is the problem when we get superstar drivers almost straight out of nappies.. the lack of maturity once they've been beaten off the top step of the podium becomes all too apparent. Some of his driving was desperate today.. I think there was even a lap where he was off the track 3 times. I suspect he'll get through it though and get back to his more chilled self when he realises that he is one brilliant driver amongst many equally brilliant drivers and he can't win all the time.

I hope Alonso wins the championship now, because he's been simply brilliant every weekend. For me he's put himself up with Senna, Clark & Fangio as an all time great.

The problem with Vettel is that Alonso for the first time since the two have been rivals has a car as good as his.

Vettel has zero car advantage.

So put it this way. 2 WDC's v's 2 WDC's. But Alonso has been through it all. Every top driver is IMO allowed 1 bad season. For Alonso that was 2007 IMO. Since then, and especially since 2009 you have to say Alonso's 2010 and 2011 seasons were simply amazing. Out of this world.

Vettel is a bad loser, but they all are. Besides that Vettel is still a kid. Expect him to say wrong things at this stage, they all do.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I don't like Alonso one bit. But he is driving exceptionally well this season. There is no way he should be leading the championship at this point in time. The only reason for his WDC leadership was incredible racecraft earlier in the season, when the car was a sh!tbox. If he can keep this form going we might be witnessing the evolution of something truly scary.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.