R_Scandura schrieb:
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> Good point this about gp3 2000, haven't considered
> such drastic difference.
> unfortunately the major problem we face is that we
> still don't know what some parameters do. we go by
> speculation.
> in example, the working of the ccshuffler, at
> least from me, is pure speculation because i
> actually don't now what it really adjusts. i just
> tweak and relate the effect.
-> Then, thank you for your speculations, because of them, i found a solution which gives me the chance to have perfect races!
Your speculations were right, except that it was exactly the other way (it is lower and not higher)!
I am testing the relation between "tyre wear" and "cc shuffler" for quite some time and - at least for GP3 2000 - it is like i wrote! As higher the value is, the more your lap times are "increasing" and as lesser "grip" you have, to be exact - you get slower!!
But you can fix that, if you reduce the tyre wear! But of course it makes more sence to get the "weight bonus" (cc shuffler) right! See what i wrote to Losail... same was for Brno, Acapulco etc. ...
I would say - with a cc shuffler value of 9000 you "always drive with a full tanked car" and just the tyre wear effects your laptimes - and, as the tyres get lesser grip every lap, you will reach a point, where is almost no grip left! Because your car is far too heavy and the tyres are "gone"!
With a value of "0" you get "faster and faster" all the time and can drive - if you drove a perfect quali lap - the same time during the race! I saw this at your India track - it was funny, but of course "wrong", because it makes no sence with a simulation!
Therefore, tyre wear and cc shuffler should be seen as a combination!
I can tell you, that you normally will have a "perfect" race if the values are - for example - 12000 (tyre wear) and 1800 (cc shuffler) or 11000 and 2000-something! Then - in my cases - you start with f.e. 1:30 and your laptimes get faster during the stint to 1:29 at the end!
If someone wants to drive every lap 1:30s - no problem... if someone wants it like the original formula one 2013, with a fast loss of tyre grip - just set the value of the cc shuffler higher... there is even no need to change the tyre wear itself!! Strange, but a cc shuffler is a great tool!!
So with the combination of both values, you can "decide how a stint should look like"!
I think the value of "tyre wear" is a little bit like "fuel" - more related to the track itself, and "cc shuffler" more like "fuel consumption 1 and 2"... it is not an exact comparison of course!
And, cc shuffler effects ALSO the CC cars! They also lose lot of time, if the value is too high! But, normally, they just lose 1 second, if a human driver loses 2 seconds (approx.) per lap!!
As i wrote for Losail - there was almost no grip left after 7 laps, but also for the cc dirvers - except of the 3 stopping! They had a big advantage and won the race by 1 minute! And why? Of course because the high cc shuffler value did not effect them as much, as the 1 and 2 stopping drivers... therefore they also lose time, but by far not as much as the others - and as they get much earlier fresh tyres and their "weight" (cc shuffler) was always less, they drove "circles" around their opponents ...
> I found in the same way what i called "error
> chance". cars retires all in the same turn by
> running wide... i lowered a value just for fun...
> cars no longer run wide... here we go with the
> error chance... still don't know if i got it
> right
-> yes, normally i do set both values to "1" to minimize the none finishers... and, if there is not a big other problem, for example the cc line, then i got almost no "none finishers" during a race! (with technical failures off, of course)
So you are also right with that!!
> about the tyre wear on the magicdata, it is the
> same, we don't know exactly what it does apart
> being related to wear. Some people reported that
> with values like 14000 after 3 laps they fell 2
> seconds off the pace while around 9000-10000 their
> race seemed quite fine. This made me think that
> the tyre wear value could be a percentage like the
> power factor or the grip factor, where
> 10000=100,00%. actually i don't know 100% of what
> but now with the info provided by Remedio about
> the compounds i can speculate that it is a sort of
> multiplier of these values. say you have a fixed
> degradation for each compound, the tyre wear in
> the md sets a multipler of this degradation. 10000
> could mean that the degradation will follow the
> fixed values, while 14000 could mean that the
> degradation is 40% higher. If this is correct,
> that parameter could be considered a "Wear
> Factor".
-> hmm, i can not tell you what the value exactly does, but i can tell you, that you will lose much time fast if either the tyre wear or the cc shuffler ist to high! For me - you know, that means GP3 2000 - it is pretty obvious that the tyre wear should be around 12000 and the cc shuffler between 1800-2700 (values of 3000-3500 are also okay, that are the approx. numbers, if you like to drive every lap the same time) ... but this also depends, "how your stint should look like" ... see above!!
I never got a big problem with a tyre wear value of 14000, or 15000, but you will lose normally more grip during your stint as with 12000! And if you have a very high cc shuffler value, you will have big grip problems at a certain point during the stint!
> this puts in circle then the ccshuffler which
> combined with these info has to be balanced. and
> then fix a bit the slispstream/air resistence
> factors to regulate the driveability.
> well, 14 years of gp3 and still learning. and
> people thought this game was gone
-> I would like to read something detailed about "slipstream/air resistence" if you do not mind!
And, maybe you can explain, why, at the original track Suzuka the value „added to car.field_108. related to cc grip factor“ is "0"!? Normally the value should be around „64768“ - that is really strange!!
R_Scandura schrieb:
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> I never edited Gp2 so i miss all this part, but if
> gp3 is 'son' of gp2 the experience of gp2 modders
> would be very helpful to know how these parameters
> work.
>
> so if both games are coded at the same way the
> Tyre Wear in the md could be a balance "human wear
> vs AI wear" and not "human/AI wear vs track"?
-> as i know the tyre wear also effects the cc drivers - but that is more like...
- if the tyre wear is at the value of 4000 (cc shuffler also 4000), their tyres last longer! That means for example in Losail - they drive with 23 laps of fuel constant laptimes of 1:30,8 till lap 17, then they lose 2 laps 0,4 seconds per lap (before their stop)!
- if the tyre wear is at the value of 20000 (cc shuffler again 4000), they drive with 23 laps of fuel 1:30,8, then they lose quickly 0,2 seconds per lap and the last few laps before the stop they lose another 0,4 seconds (in total 0,6 seconds)!
That means - with a lesser tyre wear value, the cc drivers lose almost no grip and they drive constant laptimes... with a higher tyre wear value they lose quickly some time, but not much - AGAIN depending on the value of the cc shuffler!!!
As the cc shuffler value was at 4000 - a value where you can drive constant laptimes during a stint - the tyre wear effect was not big - tyre wear 4000 - no loss, tyre wear 20000 loss of 0,2 seconds per lap after a few laps...
But with both tyre wear values (4000/20000) you/they lose time right before the stop - that means, that - on the other side - the cc shuffler value is a little bit to high!!! If you would now change the cc shuffler to - maybe - 3500, then they would drive the complete stint with tyre wear 4000 around 1:38,0 and with tyre wear 20000 a few laps 1:38,0, and after that all laps 1:38,2!!!
It is pretty easy...
Just for the tyre wear - it seems, that there is no real big effect, if the value is at 4000 or at 20000 - in that example it is just 0,2 seconds per lap... (of course, as long as the cc shuffler is at a good value! i choose one, where the laptimes are almost constant...if not, there might be some changes)
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2013 06:47AM by meanmc.