GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread

Posted by GPGSL 
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Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: May 07, 2012 05:26PM
Posted by: Stoopid
I've been looking into one lap qualifying and how it's set up within csm. There is no way of setting it to make the cars come out in a random order, they have to follow an .ini file in the tweaker folder. However I have been able to write an excel file that will produce the .ini file with a random order for every race so that it doesn't have to be edited for every race. I believe this will be most beneficial for the mod compiler, we just need to run the excel file once at the beginning of the season :)

Here is an example of the random .ini:

Quote

; ============================================================================
; GP4 Tweaker
; Core engine 2003 Qualifying Rules configurations
; ============================================================================

[CAR_OUT_ORDERS]
TRACK01 = @Melbourne
TRACK02 = @Sepang
TRACK03 = @Interlagos
TRACK04 = @Imola
TRACK05 = @Barcelona
TRACK06 = @A1Ring
TRACK07 = @Monaco
TRACK08 = @Montreal
TRACK09 = @Nurburgring
TRACK10 = @MagnyCours
TRACK11 = @Silverstone
TRACK12 = @Hockenheim
TRACK13 = @Hungaroring
TRACK14 = @Spa
TRACK15 = @Monza
TRACK16 = @Indianapolis
TRACK17 = @Suzuka
; aliases -------------------------------------------------------------------
Melbourne = 13,6,2,17,18,7,1,15,20,5,19,21,16,10,8,22,12,14,4,9,11,3
Sepang = 3,10,20,21,22,2,16,17,15,18,13,12,6,1,19,4,11,5,7,8,9,14
Interlagos = 21,10,13,5,12,1,20,19,4,2,3,8,9,22,16,17,18,15,11,7,14,6
Imola = 1,14,21,12,6,9,8,7,3,17,20,10,5,18,4,2,19,16,22,15,11,13
Barcelona = 4,9,1,13,21,5,19,3,14,12,8,7,17,16,2,6,18,15,11,20,10,22
A1Ring = 12,18,1,16,6,2,9,14,15,13,4,5,21,11,20,7,10,3,22,19,17,8
Monaco = 9,5,15,1,8,2,6,10,21,17,11,13,22,7,4,3,20,19,14,12,18,16
Montreal = 3,13,11,22,17,18,6,8,1,10,5,21,19,15,16,7,2,4,20,9,12,14
Nurburgring = 20,12,17,2,3,16,14,10,19,8,15,13,5,7,4,11,21,6,22,9,1,18
Magny Cours = 6,19,4,20,12,15,21,14,9,2,8,18,10,1,11,22,17,5,16,7,3,13
Silverstone = 2,22,17,13,14,11,9,19,18,12,20,10,6,4,15,21,3,7,5,16,8,1
Hockenheim = 1,17,20,3,13,9,21,18,5,6,2,19,7,15,22,4,16,10,14,8,12,11
Hungaroring = 15,1,3,8,10,18,21,13,17,16,12,4,14,22,6,7,5,19,11,20,9,2
Spa = 2,5,14,20,3,8,17,19,16,13,11,6,9,10,15,18,7,21,22,4,12,1
Monza = 19,11,21,9,16,6,18,3,10,7,14,17,15,5,4,13,20,12,2,1,22,8
Indianapolis = 15,5,19,4,21,18,11,2,14,8,3,7,10,17,22,6,13,1,9,12,16,20
Suzuka = 16,10,17,7,14,1,6,18,13,9,21,4,11,22,12,2,3,20,19,8,15,5


[CAR_OUT_GAPS]
TRACK01 = @Melbourne
TRACK02 = @Sepang
TRACK03 = @Interlagos
TRACK04 = @Imola
TRACK05 = @Barcelona
TRACK06 = @A1Ring
TRACK07 = @Monaco
TRACK08 = @Montreal
TRACK09 = @Nurburgring
TRACK10 = @MagnyCours
TRACK11 = @Silverstone
TRACK12 = @Hockenheim
TRACK13 = @Hungaroring
TRACK14 = @Spa
TRACK15 = @Monza
TRACK16 = @Indianapolis
TRACK17 = @Suzuka
; aliases -------------------------------------------------------------------
Melbourne = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Sepang = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Interlagos = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Imola = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Barcelona = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
A1Ring = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Monaco = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Montreal = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Nurburgring = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
MagnyCours = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Silverstone = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Hockenheim = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Hungaroring = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Spa = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Monza = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Indianapolis = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1
Suzuka = 10,0,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,3,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1,10,1

; ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
; end of config
; ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This will also give a break every 8 cars to allow the RD time to take a look at the latest standings.



5 x WCC - S5, S6, S7, S8, S10 | 4 x WDC - S5 Nick van der Voort ; S6, S7, S8 Ed Greenhalgh | 2 x WTC - S6 Stuart Ingers; S8 Andrei Sevastian
Reply Quote
Looking good mate. What I don't really get from it, however, is what the gap between the cars will be. At a one-lap qualifying we will have to ensure that everybody has a clear track. So, when will car 2 leave the pits after car 1?


GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
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Within GP4 Tweaker, the game releases Car 2 about 10/15 seconds after Car 1 starts their flying lap.




X (@ed24f1)
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Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: May 07, 2012 06:39PM
Posted by: Stoopid
Car 2 will leave his pit garage 10 seconds after car 1 has completed his warm up lap. This will give them approximately 20 seconds gap between them. I could make it more as the original file was 30 seconds, but I have heard this causes time issues in a wet session and not all the cars doing laps. Car 9 will leave his garage after car 8 has pitted, ditto car 17 after car 16.



5 x WCC - S5, S6, S7, S8, S10 | 4 x WDC - S5 Nick van der Voort ; S6, S7, S8 Ed Greenhalgh | 2 x WTC - S6 Stuart Ingers; S8 Andrei Sevastian
Reply Quote
Best way to see would be to run a simulation


Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
Reply Quote
ok, when i'm running one-lap-qualifyings, sometimes i get a bug, where the session just won't finished, as no car wants to run. This means, sometimes the Ferrari, BMW and McLaren would be standing in last rows :-p . As i'm always accelerating the sessions, it could come from there, the time would just cycle around 3/4 minutes.
When the time is not enough for every car to run one lap, the session will also cycle around 3/4 minutes, until the last driver finished. Atleast this happens with accelerated time.
Honestly, i'm not a fan of "Ensure everyone has a clear track". If nothing happens during the 3 laps, nobody will ever see their opponents (apart from the pits). If something happens, then there could be debris on the track (e.g. if somebody loses his frontwing) and this would be bad luck. I wouldn't say this mustn't happen, as this is the same for everyone. Only the first has a slightly better position.
The same is with the rain, it happens, and it's bad luck if a really slow car gets a good wheather and gets in front, as the other teams have much worse conditions. This is the risk of one-lap-qualifying.
As is the thing described first (atleast in GP4).
Greetings
Silverman
Reply Quote
There is an issue with accelerating the time in one-lap qualifying, but that shouldn't be a problem for us.




X (@ed24f1)
Reply Quote
Of course there can be an accident and debris on the track or the weather changes. That's just the reason why we're thinking about implementing one-lap qualifyings, to shake things up a bit again. BUT, under normal circumstances everybody needs to have one clear round, as otherwise I hear all the complaints already. At a one-lap qualifying it shouldn't GENERALLY happen, that the front runner spoils the lap of the back runner, hence my question. I think 10-15 seconds after car 1 has started the flying lap, is a good gap. This way cars shouldn't generally run into each other.


GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
Reply Quote
under normal circumstances i can guarantee free laps. Just see my results for equal strengths, totally random. If there is no mistake nor anything there won't be any blocking.
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Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 03:45PM
Posted by: GPGSL
It's that time of the season again!

After the various complaints of this season, we have sat down and worked out some new rule change proposals for next season. Here is what we have come up with so far:

1. Points system: The suggestion from you was to go back to the old points system but keep the new perf system. So, here you'll have three options to vote. A) Keep both new systems, or B) Go completely back to the old system, or C) Keep the new perf system but revert to the old points system where only the first 12 drivers get championship points. Please give ONE vote on this here in the thread.

2. One stop races: To keep the workload for RDs smaller and to prevent the one stop bug, races will stay 1 stop races like they were this season.

3. Qualifying: Again three options for you to vote on. A) Keep the one-shot qualifying, or B) Go back to the normal qualifying session we had before S8, or C) 6 lap (2 run) qualifying with consecutive cars to keep the surprise element but make it not quite as random as the one lap qualifying.

4. Boosts: Team boost system is likely to be kept as is with the pyramid scaled team boosts. ((Alternative, Dan M's tyre wars scenario, but no matter how much he declines it, it IS more effort for the perfs)). Instead, team perf variance might be decreased a little bit. However, given how few technical failures we have, no real adjustment should be needed here. Additionally the idea is to up the driver boost from 50 to 100 and decrease the driver perf variance from its original 600 to either 500 as a starting value OR alternatively to 400 as a fix value which does not decrease any further during the season. The second option would mean that better drivers wouldn't get more and more reliable over the season. Ideas on this, please!

5. Tyres: Stu came up with the idea to only have Pirelli as tyre manufacturer from now on and so unlike Dan's tyre war idea, use the tyres to show which team is boosted by normal teams using tyres in one color and boosted teams in another ((for example white and yellow, or yellow and red...or whatever!). This can be easily controlled through the perfs and doesn't mean much additional perf effort.


We think that with these topics we touch the most important aspects. This season there were some quite drastic changes and they worked mostly as expected. But some things possibly shot a bit over the top. So we decided that we shouldn't be this drastic this season again but carefully fine-tune some aspects. Please keep this in mind when you vote and discuss.


Reply Quote
Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 04:23PM
Posted by: danm
The tyre boost colouring is a brilliant idea! :D


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
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Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 04:32PM
Posted by: Turbo Lover
The one stop bug only happens when the fuel consumption is too high, so it's not really a bug.


My Grand Prix 4 Files

I'm a total dick. How many people can say that?
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Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 04:44PM
Posted by: JohnMaverick
That wasn't referring to what happened at the F1 manager lately but to the fact that despite correct settings, some drivers only made 1 stop while they were supposed to make 2.


GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
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Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 04:49PM
Posted by: Turbo Lover
Which correct settings do you mean?


My Grand Prix 4 Files

I'm a total dick. How many people can say that?
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Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 04:57PM
Posted by: JohnMaverick
The magic data setting that all cars should stop twice within the windows of round X-Y. Nevertheless we had pretty often the problem that JW but also other drivers only made 1 stop and had to be penalized.


GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
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Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 05:03PM
Posted by: Turbo Lover
When the laps of fuel are around 2 at the moment of the first pit window, 2 cars won't come into the pits at the same time. I tested this a lot of times.


My Grand Prix 4 Files

I'm a total dick. How many people can say that?
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Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 09:38PM
Posted by: CaptinFranko
GPGSL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's that time of the season again!
>
> After the various complaints of this season, we
> have sat down and worked out some new rule change
> proposals for next season. Here is what we have
> come up with so far:
>
> 1. Points system: The suggestion from you was to
> go back to the old points system but keep the new
> perf system. So, here you'll have three options to
> vote. A) Keep both new systems, or B) Go
> completely back to the old system, or C) Keep the
> new perf system but revert to the old points
> system where only the first 12 drivers get
> championship points. Please give ONE vote on this
> here in the thread.
>
> 2. One stop races: To keep the workload for RDs
> smaller and to prevent the one stop bug, races
> will stay 1 stop races like they were this season.
>
>
> 3. Qualifying: Again three options for you to vote
> on. A) Keep the one-shot qualifying, or B) Go back
> to the normal qualifying session we had before S8,
> or C) 6 lap (2 run) qualifying with consecutive
> cars to keep the surprise element but make it not
> quite as random as the one lap qualifying.
>
> 4. Boosts: Team boost system is likely to be kept
> as is with the pyramid scaled team boosts.
> ((Alternative, Dan M's tyre wars scenario, but no
> matter how much he declines it, it IS more effort
> for the perfs)). Instead, team perf variance might
> be decreased a little bit. However, given how few
> technical failures we have, no real adjustment
> should be needed here. Additionally the idea is to
> up the driver boost from 50 to 100 and decrease
> the driver perf variance from its original 600 to
> either 500 as a starting value OR alternatively to
> 400 as a fix value which does not decrease any
> further during the season. The second option would
> mean that better drivers wouldn't get more and
> more reliable over the season. Ideas on this,
> please!
>
> 5. Tyres: Stu came up with the idea to only have
> Pirelli as tyre manufacturer from now on and so
> unlike Dan's tyre war idea, use the tyres to show
> which team is boosted by normal teams using tyres
> in one color and boosted teams in another ((for
> example white and yellow, or yellow and red...or
> whatever!). This can be easily controlled through
> the perfs and doesn't mean much additional perf
> effort.
>
>
> We think that with these topics we touch the most
> important aspects. This season there were some
> quite drastic changes and they worked mostly as
> expected. But some things possibly shot a bit over
> the top. So we decided that we shouldn't be this
> drastic this season again but carefully fine-tune
> some aspects. Please keep this in mind when you
> vote and discuss.

1). Love this! Scoring points will mean something again.

2). One stop races are a good idea, especially as they are easier on RD's and hopefully will eliminate the bug.

3). You all know my thoughts on this seasons qualifying format! Going back to the format that we had before is, to me, the only option available. Otherwise we might as well just draw the grid out of a hat.

4). My opinion is that the boosts are still too random and wholly ineffective. They seem to very rarely have any effect and in my opinion cannot be used as a tactical element by team bosses. The system employed in the GPG Nations Cup works wonders and adds a distinct air of strategy and planning, something which the current boost system denies team bosses in the GPGSL.

5). I don't mind the tyre colouring system, but thats honestly because I don't really understand it. Are the boosts not announced when the perfs are announced before each event anyway?

GPGSL - Christel VXR team Boss S6-S8, S12 Onwards



Reply Quote
Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 10:58PM
Posted by: Carlitox
OK here goes...

1) I'd go for C. It's a balanced option, you have to fight for points but you still earn perf slowly, as opposed to the old system which gave you no chance to climb up if you have a low perf.

2) Totally agree. Plus it solves the bug where two cars pit simultaneously.

3) C. It's similar to my idea of having a free but much shorter session, which won't be random but will have the problem of traffic in the fast laps, therefore creating surprises. Also another help for RDs.

4) A difficult one. Maybe we can, in a similar way we do with teams where top teams have less BHP, keep the 6-boost-per-season but give greater boosts for drivers with lower perfs, mantaining the failure rate. The thing is, I don't really know how it would mess the perfs up. Maybe John or Stu can think about it and either approve it or ditch it ;)

5) I like it but I also agree with Chris. It's more of an aesthetics matter IMO, unless there's something I didn't get.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
Reply Quote
Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 11:19PM
Posted by: Incident 2k9
1) Although I do like the new points system, I think option C gives us the best of both worlds.

2) Yep, seems fair.

3) T two-run idea is a good plan I think; another chance to get it right is fair, I guess.

4) I think raising the driver boost is a good idea, but I think we should reduce the number of them to 4 or 5. This could add a little more strategic thinking to it...

5) I don't mind, to be honest.


GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski
Reply Quote
Re: GPGSL Rules and Regulations Discussion Thread
Date: August 22, 2013 11:55PM
Posted by: Mullet345
Here's my thoughts.

1: I think option C is the one to go with.

2: I agree with having 1 stop races. Having read past seasons, the 2 stop races have caused problems where most drivers had pitted twice, but at least one or more drivers would sometimes only pit once. I don't get how 2 cars pit at the same time, unless it's double stacking.

3: One lap qualifying has never been a good thing. I like the idea of having drivers qualify with only 2 flying laps to set a time.

4: I can never understand the perf values. So I'm not too bothered with how the boosts will be utilised for next season.

5: Again, I'm not too bothered. Although it may be best to have a single tyre supplier. How many motorsports these days have multiple tyre suppliers?



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